2024 U.S. Presidential General Election Thread

[wire28]

I'm just going to ignore the so-called "progressive" sect of HL.

Bad faith criticisms and wild exaggerations about Kamala. When the focus until Election Day should solely be on defeating Trump. SMH.

They are good for arguing with when you are killing time before doing something more important with your day.

I feel sorry for them tho. Going around upset at the world 24/7 and having every person you anoint as your political messiah go on to disappoint you within 2 years has to be mentally taxing. We can see the effects on smooth mind for example, it’s quite obvious things have become scrambled over time as his entire identity is based on grievance and weakness

 

[Insensitive]

These are people who are bereft of imagination.

They cannot dream of a better world because the state and its media tentacles said, "This is the ONLY world you can imagine".

The seething hatred for "Progressives" is because truthfully they stand for nothing, believing in nothing and hate that there
are those who are not soulless husks like they are.

And my heroes cannot "disappoint me" because they already died valiantly doing what is right.

Bernie Sanders, AOC and anyone else cozying up to power in hopes of "changing it from the inside" or cynically exploiting
progressive stances have not "Disappointed me" because they fundamentally are antithetical to many of my personal beliefs
and thus don't represent me.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Who claimed that Kamala's platform is only slightly left of Trump's? We're comparing her platform and campaign to those of previous Democratic Presidents and campaigns. The claim is that she's been pivoting to the right and running the most right-wing Democratic campaign in many cycles, and we're debating what the implications of this are. But we can't even agree on basic principles because y'all have Trump Derangement Syndrome and respond to any critical assessment of Kamala's campaign by pointing to Trump and saying he's worse, which has absolutely no bearing on the argument at hand. Like, we haven't even been mentioning Trump when critiquing Kamala because we all believe she is better than him and voting for him is off the table. If you keep allowing Trump to set the standard for what is acceptable and unacceptable, then he's already won even if he loses because we're continually being pulled down to his level and we're living in a world defined by his bullshyt. We have to have beliefs and ideas and standards that exist outside of Trump.

Listen, the two are polar opposites and there were absolutely people in here saying Kamala is just left of Trump which is ridiculous and why I don't engage in any serious manner with those people.

The reason why we are making the contrast? I'll tell you why.... because you have people in here who claim they are "undecided" and leaning towards 3rd party grifters, so it's still a matter of comparing and contrasting the two candidates who can actually win.

Kamala is not to the right of "several Democrats of the past..." breh... some of her platform is left of Biden, have you read it? We've spent a lot of time going over what she has proposed

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Bernie Sanders, AOC and anyone else cozying up to power in hopes of "changing it from the inside"

Still not concerned with winning elections huh? How do you plan on passing anything you want into law or shifting the conversation at all if you are on the outside looking in?

 

[Kyle C. Barker]

Yes, what we do is very fascist. We, again, aren’t following our own laws with regards to the US/Mexico border.

Border policy by itself isn't really fascist, but when you pair it with fascist rhetoric by saying things like "they're poisoning our country", "they're rapists and murderers", "they're cannibals that are eating our animals", they're terrorists, and "why do they come from shythole countries and not Norway" then it becomes fascist.

I say all of this to say that fascist policies are generally paired with fascist movements and only one party at the moment is pushing that rhetoric.

 

[PoorAndDangerous]

These are people who are bereft of imagination.

They cannot dream of a better world because the state and its media tentacles said, "This is the ONLY world you can imagine".

The seething hatred for "Progressives" is because truthfully they stand for nothing, believing in nothing and hate that there
are those who are not soulless husks like they are.

And my heroes cannot "disappoint me" because they already died valiantly doing what is right.

Bernie Sanders, AOC and anyone else cozying up to power in hopes of "changing it from the inside" or cynically exploiting
progressive stances have not "Disappointed me" because they fundamentally are antithetical to many of my personal beliefs
and thus don't represent me.

Bruh that’s how you change things. From the inside. Unless you’re suggesting a violent revolution which no one wants

 

[Insensitive]

One party is openly fascist.
The other continues the openly fascist party's policies and just doesn't say mean things.


The problem isn't with fascism, the problem is with how it's carried out.

This is the crux of the problem with anti-"Progressives" on this website.

It's not that the "Progressives" are crazy people, it's that again, we put a mirror up to these things and instead
of admitting that it's horribly violent, bad and not necessary there's a lot of handwringing and claims of us having
"smooth brains" instead of just acknowledging the bad thing is bad.

 

[King Kreole]

This is interesting, @King Kreole just said exactly what I was saying.... yet @mastermind is not saying he's wrong

No, you're confusing the argument. You made the argument that Progressives asking Kamala to abide by international and domestic law and not aid and abet Israel's war crimes and aggressions in the region are ignorant of what the ramifications to the interconnected global economy of such an action would be. You and I both pointed out the power Iran has to spin the block on the global economy, but I use that as evidence for why Israel needs to be reigned in and given consequences by the US instead of the blank check and tacit support for escalating attacks against Iran, and you used it as evidence for why we need to continue the path of unconditional support of Israel that has led us to this precarious point.

But where @King Kreole and I disagree on is.... Israel does have a right to defend themselves on these fronts. Both things can be true. Israel has committed atrocities in Gaza but Hamas, Hezbollah and the Iranian government are not "the good guys..." either... the way you portray them. These are conflicts that have been going on since well before any of us were born.

I'm not portraying Iran, Hezbollah or Hamas as "the good guys". The fact you're even using that term indicates we're coming at this discussion from very different places. And even if Israel has the right to defend itself, what they're doing now cannot be categorized as defense other than through an extremely blinkered and perverse lens.

 

[Robbie3000]

They are good for arguing with when you are killing time before doing something more important with your day.

I feel sorry for them tho. Going around upset at the world 24/7 and having every person you anoint as your political messiah go on to disappoint you within 2 years has to be mentally taxing. We can see the effects on smooth mind for example, it’s quite obvious things have become scrambled over time as his entire identity is based on grievance and weakness

I don’t know why yall take criticisms of politicians so personal. Especially criticism from folks that you are ideologically aligned.

If they are fukking up, it’s our job to hold them accountable. We can’t be so fearful of Trump that we let politicians get away with bullshyt.

I thought Blue MAGA would show more humility after how wrong you were when it came to replacing Biden, but here we are. No lessons learned. Just arrogance and hubris.

 

[wire28]

These are people who are bereft of imagination.

They cannot dream of a better world because the state and its media tentacles said, "This is the ONLY world you can imagine".

The seething hatred for "Progressives" is because truthfully they stand for nothing, believing in nothing and hate that there
are those who are not soulless husks like they are.

And my heroes cannot "disappoint me" because they already died valiantly doing what is right.

Bernie Sanders, AOC and anyone else cozying up to power in hopes of "changing it from the inside" or cynically exploiting
progressive stances have not "Disappointed me" because they fundamentally are antithetical to many of my personal beliefs
and thus don't represent me.

I didn’t realize they were exploiting progressive stances. Good info to know, thanks. With this being understood, Who “represents” you?

 

[wire28]

I don’t know why yall take criticisms of politicians so personal. Especially criticism from folks that you are ideologically aligned.

If they are fukking up, it’s our job to hold them accountable. We can’t be so fearful of Trump that we let politicians get away with bullshyt.

I thought Blue MAGA would show more humility after how wrong you were when it came to replacing Biden, but here we are. No lessons learned. Just arrogance and hubris.

That’s what I ask whenever people criticize sanders, AOC, etc but then the response is just “stop punching left ”

You’ll have to pardon us when we are sometimes confused as to which politicians can be criticized, it’s hard to keep up

That guy that ran up on AOC when she was at the diner must not have got the memo he was punching left and not just holding her accountable

 

[Outlaw]

I didn’t realize they were exploiting progressive stances. Good info to know, thanks. With this being understood, Who “represents” you?

don’t expect a response @Insensitive likes to virtue signal but not give alternate perspectives grounded in reality

 

[mastermind]

I'm just going to ignore the so-called "progressive" sect of HL.

Bad faith criticisms and wild exaggerations about Kamala. When the focus until Election Day should solely be on defeating Trump. SMH.

What’s bad faith is saying skipping a meeting is criticism.

I keep saying it, you guys are not different from the blind republican voters you make fun of.

 

[wire28]

Bruh that’s how you change things. From the inside. Unless you’re suggesting a violent revolution which no one wants

Some of the people yall are arguing with are not so subtly alluding to this preference actually. They want things to get worse so “the people rise up”

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I'm not portraying Iran, Hezbollah or Hamas as "the good guys". The fact you're even using that term indicates we're coming at this discussion from very different places. And even if Israel has the right to defend itself, what they're doing now cannot be categorized as defense other than through an extremely blinkered and perverse lens.

I'm not coming from it as either side having a moral high ground... That's my point. You criticize Israel, great. I do too. I have no love for their regime and I've said that but as a people, they do have the right to defend themselves and I didn't see much outrage from you all when innocent people were murdered and kidnapped by Hamas.

I'm guessing the reason why I didn't see outrage for it is because you felt they "had it coming" but again I'm not viewing this as a good vs. evil situation as you seem to be. My point in using the phrase was that there are no good people heading these regimes.

Israel should be reigned in but it's more of a delicate situation than you are making it out to be. No President is going to "cut off" Israel with them fighting several fronts at once. That would not happen.