The Official Honourable Marcus Mosiah Garvey; Prophet of The Black Afrikan

[↓R↑LYB]

Garvey was great, but I don't agree with his back to Africa plan. I felt as though it was a cowardly way to avoid confronting the racial and economic oppression in this nation. Abandoning land that we built with our blood, sweat, and tears? Nah, we must fight the monster and educate our youth in developing solution driven goals to gradually destroy this monster. Again, Garvey did a lot of good things, but his ultimate goal was seriously flawed.

@ Garvey being a coward. Dude said for every black person they lynch in the US, we'll push the buttom and Lynch 2 in South Africa.

 

[Gifted one]

@Cumlover why you 1 starring threads on great black people? First MLK now Garvey

 

[Darts]

Check out this dope documentary on Garvey's life, worth the 2 hrs:

 

[kp404]

@ Garvey being a coward. Dude said for every black person they lynch in the US, we'll push the buttom and Lynch 2 in South Africa.

I did not say he was cowardly, I said he was great and did many great things; I said his Back to Africa plan was a cowardly means to dealing with the problem of the color line in America.

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

As more Asian and African countries develop a higher standard of living, on top of the native European population birthrates dropping fast, its only a matter of time before the white power structure falls off from dominance. I'm not too worried at this point.

due to the legacy of the white power structure it's and the fact oppressive anti black white supremist European and amerikkkan governments still monopolize the world's power it's going take African(black nations in particular) decades or even centuries to end this status qou and even then it's most likely going to take black nations uniting and liberating themselves of western neo colonism and exploitation.

 

[↓R↑LYB]

I did not say he was cowardly, I said he was great and did many great things; I said his Back to Africa plan was a cowardly means to dealing with the problem of the color line in America.

For you to say that gives me the impression you not only have an inaccurate perception of Garvey, but you don't understand the climate in which he operated in:

1. Garvey was a pan African, which meant he wanted to deal with the issues of African people globally, not just in the US or the Caribbean. Which is why he said Africa for the Africans at home (Africa) and abroad (the diaspora).
2. In the 1920's, outside of Liberia, every African country was under European rule thanks to colonialism, so saying his repatriation plan was cowardly doesn't make sense because all of those African countries were still being run by white governments (Here's a list). He had an equally difficult battle fighting racism and white supremacy in Africa as he did in the US.
3. Garvey said emphatically that black people deserved their own government and country, since at the time we didn't have one (again, all African nations were under foreign control). Which is why he kept saying Africa for the Africans.
4. Garvey never said all African people should repatriate back to Africa. He said those who were willing to return back to our continent and be the pioneers and founders of this new country/government should go. He also said that he didn't want all blacks to go, because too many of us had accepted white supremacy to the point that we'd cause more harm than good.
5. Garvey never said this, but this is my opinion (and Umar Johnson says this a lot in his speeches): most black people want absolutely nothing to do with Africa. Which is why there's so few movements that deal with repatriation because we want nothing more than to be accepted into European society. Because of how efficiently we were conditioned, we internalize the inferiority complex that whites view of Africa, and we hold a lot of those views ourselves.

I'd recommend you read The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey to get a better understanding of him and what he was trying to accomplish with the UNIA/ACL

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

I did not say he was cowardly, I said he was great and did many great things; I said his Back to Africa plan was a cowardly means to dealing with the problem of the color line in America.

so you think marching singing negro spirituals while cacs hosed and beat us was a courageous way of dealing with white persecution in amerikkka?
it was an understandable position considering Africa is out true motherland which we were stolen from and cacs were racially cleansing and marginalizing us in the new world...why not return home and build up our ancestral lands? it beats being 2nd class citizens in the land yt stole from the Amerindians.

 

[IronFist]

whos words are these? Robert Hill?

Tony Martin was made the Official Biographer of Hon. Marcus Mosiah Garvey by the UNIA ACL.

actually a general statement which has been made time and time again by martin in the book race first.

true he as far as him being the official biographer but that particular statement is off
but I also offer MARCUS GARVEY'S articles for his newspaper....

ABU HASSAN ALI

" THE BLACK SULTAN" OF MOROCCO (d. 1351)

ABU HASSAN ALI, "El Sultan Aswad" or "The Black Sultan," was the most famous of the Merinides rulers of Morocco.

He was renowned in the annals of the East for his ambition, courage, and the fortitude with which he bore his reverses, as well as for his patronage of art. Under him Moroccan art, architecture, and literature rose to the zenith of their splendor.

The Black Sultan came to the throne by ousting his brother. In 133o he inflicted a crushing defeat upon the Christian King of Castile and captured Gibraltar. Ten years later he made himself master of the Mediterranean by destroying the Christian fleet commanded by the white admiral, Godfrey Tenorio. Then began a long series of misfortunes. The kings of Castile and Portugal, allying themselves against him, defeated him. They took not only his treasures but also his wives. Driven from Europe, he returned to Africa, conquered Tunis and Algeria, and became so great a power in North Africa that the Mameluke sultans of Egypt looked to him as the protector of Western Islam. While he was absent from Morocco, his subjects revolted under his son, Abu Fares, who seized the throne. With his army, the Black Sultan sailed from Tunis for Morocco, but a tempest in the Mediterranean wrecked his fleet. Thrown into the water with the dead tossing around him, he managed to save himself by clinging to a piece of wreckage, and finally drifted ashore near Algiers. Undaunted, he gathered a large army and marched against his son. He was defeated but, not withstanding, he reached Fez and captured it. But he was unable to hold the city and was driven into the desert, where he assembled army after army, hurling them against his foes again and again, only to be beaten.

Stern, self-denying, and dynamic, the Black Sultan refused to yield to the pleasures that had softened so many of his predecessors, and was thus able to endure hardship and vicissitudes such as few monarchs have had to face. While at times he was subject to outbursts of extreme cruelty, he was nonetheless refined and possessed great nobility of spirit. His colleges, upon which he lavished all the beauties of Moroccan art, are monuments to his highly civilized taste and love of culture.

His favorite wife was a European named Shams-ed-Douha, or "The Morning Sun," and his tomb and hers, at Shella, are one of the architectural treasures of Morocco. Upon the eastern face of the Sultan's cenotaph is a wall of red stone carved with an inscription from the Koran with the exquisite ornament of the Alhambra --a page softened by the passing of time.

O'Connor says of him:

To the Sultan, Abu Hassan Ali, "The Black Sultan," are due the Mederseas of Es-Sahrij and E1 Mesbahiya (1331-48). He got his name like his dark skin from his mother, who was an Abyssinian Negress to whom in one of his inscriptions he paid a lofty tribute: "Her noble and saintly Highness! May God enlighten her tomb and sanctify her soul!" His reign following that of his father, Abu Said, who was unable to make wars of conquest in Spain, had turned to the maintenance of his power in Africa and had built three of the Merihide Mederseas, marked the height of the civilization associated with their name. Abu Hassan was man of many parts; he inscribed a copy of the Koran with his own hand and had it richly bound in leather and gold and sent to Mecca to be placed in the Mosque. He likewise sent copies to Medina and Jerusalem. He sought by the foundation of the Mederseas to strike the imagination of the Moslems of his capital and to show them what he could accomplish. He appealed to the civic pride of the East and conciliated the learned who at Fez have always been influential.

His power and glory reached their height at the date of the foundation of the Mesbahiya for he subdued Central Morocco and had made himself the most powerful sovereign in Western Islam. He sent rich gifts and entertained equal relations with the sultans of the east end of Africa. He married a daughter of the king of Tunis and upon the death of her father annexed his dominions to Morocco.

He died June 21, 1357, after a reign of twenty-one years.

The Black Sultan's son, Abu Fares, later grieved for his disloyalty and in remorse erected the Bu Ananija, a temple of learning, and left an endowment for its perpetual preservation. This edifice is still one of the most artistic and most sacred in Morocco.

if you want me to touch on the complexion isssue i can

 

[↓R↑LYB]

It's sad, some of his biggest adversaries were within the very same race he was trying to uplift.

c00ns can be such despicable human beings.

hold on now breh. It may seem that way from the surface, but the main adversary of Garvey was white supremacy. His organization was infiltrated probably more than any other organization at the time. The 1st black FBI agent in history was hired to spy on Garvey and sabotage his works (one of the main accomplishments being they sabotaged the black star line).

Now granted there were some blacks hating, but the blame always goes to Cacs first.

 

[↓R↑LYB]

so you think marching singing negro spirituals while cacs hosed and beat us was a courageous way of dealing with white persecution in amerikkka?
it was an understandable position considering Africa is out true motherland which we were stolen from and cacs were racially cleansing and marginalizing us in the new world...why not return home and build up our ancestral lands? it beats being 2nd class citizens in the land yt stole from the Amerindians.

Just to clarify, he wasn't saying return to Africa JUST because it's our motherland. He was saying Africa needs to be free because at the time every single African nation was under colonial rule. There wasn't a single truly free African nation at the time.

 

[kp404]

For you to say that gives me the impression you not only have an inaccurate perception of Garvey, but you don't understand the climate in which he operated in:

1. Garvey was a pan African, which meant he wanted to deal with the issues of African people globally, not just in the US or the Caribbean. Which is why he said Africa for the Africans at home (Africa) and abroad (the diaspora).
2. In the 1920's, many African countries were still going through colonialism, so saying his repatriation plan was cowardly doesn't make sense because all of those African countries were still being run by white governments (kenya, nigeria, and ghana didn't gain their independence until the 50's and 60's for example). He had an equally difficult battle fighting racism and white supremacy in Africa as he did in the US.
3. Garvey said emphatically that black people deserved their own government and country, since at the time we didn't have one (again, most African nations were under foreign control). Which is why he kept saying Africa for the Africans.
4. Garvey never said all African people should repatriate back to Africa. He said those who were willing to return back to our continent and be the pioneers and founders of this new country/government should go. He also said that he didn't want all blacks to go, because too many of us had accepted white supremacy to the point that we'd cause more harm than good.

I'd recommend you read The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey to get a better understanding of him and what he was trying to accomplish with the UNIA/ACL

I've read it and lots of stuff on the UNIA, Moorish Temple, etc..I'm well aware of the socioeconomic environment. UNIA had good ideas, but their methodology was flawed. I don't agree with his plan. Plain and simple. I know of the plan and I don't agree with ANY part of blacks going back to Africa to be pioneers to solve the problem of white supremacy because it DOES NOT solve the problem of white supremacy. I appreciate and love his energy and all the stuff he did, but his perspective is flawed in my eyes; Yes I agree that the black diaspora is wholly significant in liberation strategies for all blacks; NO I don't agree with your second point because I believe that going back to Africa even for some blacks DOES NOT attempt to solve the global epidemic of white hegemony and capitalism. Of course blacks deserve our own nations. Nobody is debating that, but I'm arguing Garvey's methodological procedures in obtaining his goals. Sending a population of American blacks back to Africa to start a new government and country does not account for the EXCEPTIONAL and distinct nature of the African American experience here in America and the West. In other words, I argue that Garvey's method does not directly address our Nadir here during the early 20th century, which was the highest lynching period in history. Running to another country to start a new system is not right because we have millions of blacks here who suffer under capital and racial control; we must teach the youth to develop trends to remove the bricks of oppression in the West to liberate the world because the West controls the world's oppression through military and technological advancements. Plus, by stating that only those who want to come back to Africa can come, it creates a list of problems. What about the poor blacks that stay in America? We are supposed to abandon them? See Garvey did not account for the fact that ALL blacks need liberation, regardless of if they are not down with the UNIA's cause. We are all oppressed by the system and all must work together to end oppression, not just a select few who flee the main imperialist part of the world. Its not sound or intelligent. Black Americans must remain here, connect with other blacks around the world, and develop diaspora connections of educating, feeding, and collectivizing ALL of the disadvantaged blacks, no matter where they are so that we can reverse poverty and racial hegemony everywhere.

Like I said, its not a personal attack against Garvey because he was great and did many great things in his life and gave ideas to blacks. But I don't agree with his methodological or ideological approach to black liberation. Just like I don't agree with Black Nationalism as an ideology or methodology. That's all it is. Although he was multifaceted and embraced various ideologies, Huey P. Newton (later life), W.E.B. Du Bois (in his later life), Kwame Ture, Kwame Nkrumah, the later life of Robert F. Williams, and the later life of Malcolm X are black leaders I embrace that have stronger ideas concerning where black liberation across all lands will come from. You should read some stuff on the late great Robert Chrisman on revolutionary black culture and where true black liberation starts. That's where my heart and mind is.

 

[kp404]

hold on now breh. It may seem that way from the surface, but the main adversary of Garvey was white supremacy. His organization was infiltrated probably more than any other organization at the time. The 1st black FBI agent in history was hired to spy on Garvey and sabotage his works (one of the main accomplishments being they sabotaged the black star line).

Now granted there were some blacks hating, but the blame always goes to Cacs first.

Agreed.

 

[kp404]

so you think marching singing negro spirituals while cacs hosed and beat us was a courageous way of dealing with white persecution in amerikkka?
it was an understandable position considering Africa is out true motherland which we were stolen from and cacs were racially cleansing and marginalizing us in the new world...why not return home and build up our ancestral lands? it beats being 2nd class citizens in the land yt stole from the Amerindians.

You must not have read my other posts or you wouldn't think that is where I'm coming from in regards to whites. You think I'm a civil rights dude? :wtfcosbysmoke:

I'm a staunch critic of the civil rights movement for being too soft and a failure and an advocate black self-determination and the fall of capitalism and all white hegemonic global systems...so you might wanna check my post history first;

 

[Batman]

 

[↓R↑LYB]

I've read it and lots of stuff on the UNIA, Moorish Temple, etc..I'm well aware of the socioeconomic environment. UNIA had good ideas, but their methodology was flawed. I don't agree with his plan. Plain and simple. I know of the plan and I don't agree with ANY part of blacks going back to Africa to be pioneers to solve the problem of white supremacy because it DOES NOT solve the problem of white supremacy. I appreciate and love his energy and all the stuff he did, but his perspective is flawed in my eyes;

I'm hoping you describe why you believe his views were flawed (I'm commenting as I read through your posts BTW).

Yes I agree that the black diaspora is wholly significant in liberation strategies for all blacks; NO I don't agree with your second point because I believe that going back to Africa even for some blacks DOES NOT attempt to solve the global epidemic of white hegemony and capitalism.

How does the liberation of Africa not attempt to solve the global epidemic of white supremacy? At the time of Garvey, there were approximately 8-900 million Africans under imperial on the continent of Africa. Garvey's philosophy was that we can't expect to be respected as a people, when we don't even have control of our own home land. For every African under the bondage of White Supremacy in the US, there were 40 under that same system in Africa

Of course blacks deserve our own nations. Nobody is debating that, but I'm arguing Garvey's methodological procedures in obtaining his goals. Sending a population of American blacks back to Africa to start a new government and country does not account for the EXCEPTIONAL and distinct nature of the African American experience here in America and the West. In other words, I argue that Garvey's method does not directly address our Nadir here during the early 20th century, which was the highest lynching period in history.

Garvey was directly confronting the lynching problems in the US. Garvey and the UNIA had shoot outs with the KKK over lynchings of black Africans. As I stated in my original post, Garvey was so serious about the problems of lynching, that he said to the US government for every black person that's lynched in the South, we'll lynch 2 in South Africa.

Running to another country to start a new system is not right because we have millions of blacks here who suffer under capital and racial control; we must teach the youth to develop trends to remove the bricks of oppression in the West to liberate the world because the West controls the world's oppression through military and technological advancements.

That's exactly what Garvey DID teach blacks to do in the US. It's why while he was here, he started black business. He started the Black Star Line so we could economically compete globally from it's home base in the US. Garvey said in many interviews and speeches that black people needed to have their own military in order to fight white supremacy. It's why he said he wanted us to have our OWN government and military, since we weren't going to have one in the US because of the climate of the time.

Plus, by stating that only those who want to come back to Africa can come, it creates a list of problems. What about the poor blacks that stay in America? We are supposed to abandon them? See Garvey did not account for the fact that ALL blacks need liberation, regardless of if they are not down with the UNIA's cause.

Of course Garvey accounted for that. It's why he himself never went back to Africa. Garvey didn't say, the best of the best should go to Africa, and have a complete brain drain on the US. He said those among you who are WILLING to get and be the pioneers of "the new world" should go. The example he used was of the European explorers who left Europe to settle in the new world (America).

Every faction of the UNIA was about the complete liberation of African people globally. It's also why his movement gained such global recognition because his mission was the liberation of all Africans, regardless of where they stayed.

We are all oppressed by the system and all must work together to end oppression, not just a select few who flee the main imperialist part of the world. Its not sound or intelligent. Black Americans must remain here, connect with other blacks around the world, and develop diaspora connections of educating, feeding, and collectivizing ALL of the disadvantaged blacks, no matter where they are so that we can reverse poverty and racial hegemony everywhere.

Breh, everything you are saying is NOT what Garvey said or even did. Please provide some examples to prove your point. Based on everything you wrote, you have an inaccurate opinion of Garvey, the UNIA, and its purpose.

Like I said, its not a personal attack against Garvey because he was great and did many great things in his life and gave ideas to blacks. But I don't agree with his methodological or ideological approach to black liberation. Just like I don't agree with Black Nationalism as an ideology or methodology. That's all it is. Although he was multifaceted and embraced various ideologies, Huey P. Newton (later life), W.E.B. Du Bois (in his later life), Kwame Ture, Kwame Nkrumah, the later life of Robert F. Williams, and the later life of Malcolm X are black leaders I embrace that have stronger ideas concerning where black liberation across all lands will come from. You should read some stuff on the late great Robert Chrisman on revolutionary black culture and where true black liberation starts. That's where my heart and mind is.

Damn near every person you named used Garvey as the blueprint for their movements. Malcolm X's parents were members of the UNIA. Farad Muhammad was a member of the UNIA. Again, you have an inaccurate view of Garvey and his movement. Please posts some quotes, examples, and excerpts that shows that Garvey's idea was to run to Africa and leave African Americans high and drive. Post examples showing that Garvey's movement was not about the liberation of ALL Africans, regardless of where they resided.