Is the PG position really worth a max contract?
- Thread starter Malta
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1. I don't think there are any 2s in this league worth a max. I'm with you on not buying HardenNah I don't, for a # of reasons.
i) it's easier to build around a player who is more talented and has more ability than position they play.
ii) Even with Drummond, Cousins, Davis and Aldridge you still need a lot of other things. Not giving a PG 30% of the salary is not quantifiable by suggesting that an anchor can potentially provide more impact from rebounds, blocks/influence shots and be go-to scorers vs playmaking and scoring.
iii) 90+% of leaders on title teams have always had a player that has provided near the same impact.
iv) You mention 'anchors' but no talk of 2s and 3s - is there any noticeable difference that would make Harden (a so-called elite SG) a better player to build around than Westbrook?
Dirk is not the rule though.
How many other SGs, SFs, PFs and Cs have won titles in the same manner in the last 30 seasons?
No it's most unlikely to do so if you blow it on the lesser talented player - regardless of position. Even if the best wing/frontcourt player is better to build around than the best PG (providing the wing is the better player), that doesn't mean to say that PG isn't worth building around or worth the max - because that PG could still provide more impact and be of more value than 95% of the rest of the wing players and big men in the league.
That's why I don't like this argument at all, because to say Westbrook or Rose (when healthy) doesn't have the impact or isn't worthy of a max contract whereas a player like Harden is.... it'sto me.
Lemme ask you this - who are your top 10 players in the league?
2. The only 3s worth a max and worth building around are LBJ, KD, and PG. PG is still a risk though.
3. I said in an earlier post a few pages back that I'd max out Westbrook and Curry. Those are the only PGs I'd take though.
I understand what you're saying in that there are only a small handful of true franchise players. So the rest of the teams/GMs are left overpaying for the services for the next tier of stars, and this league is flooded with talented PGs. All I'm saying is that to me, it becomes futile when you miss out on the top tier frontcourt/wing and end up having to max out a PG. You're basically condemning your team to no titles for the immediate future. Tying up too much money in 1 position that, to me, isn't near as crucial as the wing or frontcourt players.
One thing that really turned me off was what happened in the 2011 playoffs. LeBron essentially negated Derrick Rose entirely at the end of those 4th quarters. This isn't ALWAYS going to be the case, but it really sucks when a guy like LeBron, Pippen, Bowen, Kobe, or PG can come in and negate a superstar PG just because they're longer/more athletic. A PG can't do that to the other team's best player... It sucks, but it is what it is. And to me, it kind of points out the fact that a PG taking 30% of your cap isn't worth it.
Of course, if you have the right pieces around said 30% cap, superstar PG, you could feasibly win a title. But that hasn't happened in ages.
Dwight Howard is still worth the max.
no shyt!
thats what I said earlier in this thread. Wall currently isnt a max player and point guards dont deserve it at all, but potentially Wall ticks the boxes a lot more than most of the current point guards from a physical perspective.
No you didn't, you only mentioned Wall -
in that Wall runs an offense better, facilitate for his teammates better, and score at a level close to Westbrook?(dont think Wall will ever be the scorer Russ is, but then again Wall isnt playing with a Durant)
we'll see
There's no we'll see about it, in Westbrook's current state and what he's done over the last 2-3 seasons. Dude is more of a max player than Wall is. Honestly he's a max player right now.
Even tho he is flawed on offense he's still a dominant defender and rebounder(who still gives you around 20 a game efficiently) Id take him easily over all the star points if I'm building a team.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
breh, you being really literal. The point I made in my post, and which you agreed with without saying, is that Wall isnt worth the max right now but has the measurables. HE has the measurements that make the case for him to get it, but we wont know into the future. I didnt need to mention Westbrook to make that point, and everyone else understood that.
No you didn't, you only mentioned Wall -
NO shyt! Hence me saying he is a better player than Wall right now. Its like you read my post and said what I said.
There's no we'll see about it, in Westbrook's current state and what he's done over the last 2-3 seasons. Dude is more of a max player than Wall is. Honestly he's a max player right now.
And no, Westbrook is not a max player. The Thunder would need more players for them to compete with Russy on his own than they would with KD on his own.
Wade ain't have no West and Chandler vs the Hawks. Put a shooter at the 3 and that's an ECF team those years
Westbrook is absolutely a max player, in fact i think he's underpaid.
So let me get this straight -
No 2s are worth the max in the league
Only Bron, KD and maybe PG are worth the max out all of all 3s
And you think Curry and Westbrook are the two PGs that are worth the max.
Ahhh so what are you in here arguing exactly?
Right, the league is flooded with talented PGs, but just because the market is over-saturated doesn't mean that we should devalue the PGs that are worth the the max. Max player = max player, regardless of position. What instances are there where teams have failed (not through injury) by tying up too much money in the 1 position?
If you miss out on the top tier player, than maxing out a PG (that isn't worth it) is just as bad as maxing out a wing and frontcourt player (that isn't worth it).
You've just said there's three small forwards, two point guards and ZERO shooting guards in the league worthy of the max, so isn't the problem here spending the money on the WRONG player as opposed to spending money on the POINT GUARD?
Because what I'm getting out of this thread is that NOBODY playing the point guard position is worth the max.
Lebron didn't shut down Rose in the 4th quarters, the Heat's collapsing defense shut down Rose. Rose was the only player in the starting lineup that could create his shot. That's why they lost.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1149605 - pretty much every single situation where Rose was guarded by Bron (which completely dispels the fact the Bron shutdown Rose) ------
"The Heat used a junk defense in this series nearly the entire time. They used Lebron to try and prevent Rose jump shots while the rest of the defense prevented everything behind Lebron. The reason I call this defense "junk" is because it left Rose's team mates wide open for looks all over the floor that they simply did not hit. The entire defense was 5 vs 1 while they ignore the other 4. If the Bull's have a plan to use this to get open shots for the other 4 and they hit the shots, this defense gets torn to shreds. Unfortunately, we began the series without a plan, and finished the series with a plan but missed shots. In this I am encouraged two fold. First, we lost on players missing open jump shots. It wasn't the Heat playing super defense on 5 players, it was the Heat playing super defense on 1 player and no one on the Bulls could hit the shots. Second, we adjusted and came up with an excellent plan to get open shots. This was a very close series. If the Bulls pull out game 5, the Heat would have been in trouble. The Bulls out adjusted the Heat on both ends, but the Bulls simply choked from the field."
When was the last time a superstar/max-worthy PG had an adequate team to compete for a title?
kevthesureshot
All Star
If you're talking about winning a championship, history tells you that you need a Big man or Wing player as your #1 option. The league just happens to be stacked with talented PGs. and only a handful are competing for a title. The guys making max like Paul. Westbrook, Wall, Rose and Deron are all #1 or #2 options. They are one of the most talented players on their teams, so they're paid accordingly. Teams don't want to lose them so they pay what they feel is market value. sometimes it's overpaid but it's not like big men are growing on trees 
That I feel there are no PGs worth maxing out other than Westbrook and Curry.
As I stated in the post you quoted.
As I stated in a post I made on the 2nd or 3rd page.
What are you arguing? You see the title of the thread? I feel like there's hardly any players in the league worth a max, but that's not the topic of discussion here, is it? So i stated my view on PGs and kept it moving. You follow now? Or you still trying to bait me into your side discussion by having me list my top 10 nba players?
I need for the PG defenders to tell me What is a championship level Supporting cast needed for you to win a title or contend for one with a point as your best player INYO ?
For example CP3 is considered the best In the game. He has Blake a young 20/10 all nba NBA player and apparently it isn't enough.
For example CP3 is considered the best In the game. He has Blake a young 20/10 all nba NBA player and apparently it isn't enough.
MooseMouthMthafuga
Veteran
Beyond Magic Johnson, no.
Watch the Suns fukk around and give Eric Bledsoe the max.He's a good, but he's not a true franchise player.Would only be the 3rd or 4th option on a championship caliber team.In reality, he's worth about 8 mill a year, but the league brought it on themselves.
NBA politics.Chickens coming home to roost
Watch the Suns fukk around and give Eric Bledsoe the max.He's a good, but he's not a true franchise player.Would only be the 3rd or 4th option on a championship caliber team.In reality, he's worth about 8 mill a year, but the league brought it on themselves.
NBA politics.Chickens coming home to roost
