Howard University medical school has zero ADOS black men.

[capt_saveahoe]

and you believe you were given special treatment because you were african?

Because I am "Black" admissions do not differentiate between African, African American, Afro Caribbean, a Dominican that doesn't identify as black except on applications.

To admissions offices black is black, they don't care that I came from a household that made over $300k a year, I am a a first gen African American therefore I am Black and "disadvantaged".

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

Because I am "Black" admissions do not differentiate between African, African American, Afro Caribbean, a Dominican that doesn't identify as black except on applications.

To admissions offices black is black, they don't care that I came from a household that made over $300k a year, I am a a first gen African American therefore I am Black and "disadvantaged".

Despite your wealth your still disadvantaged just due to your black skin. You'll learn as you progress in your career.

The reason you were coveted because qualified black male applicants are LOW. Any decent candidate is heavily courted. If there were more qualified applicants, there would be increased numbers matriculating as well.

Again, Black women are OVER-REPRESENTED in med school.

 

[the bossman]

Obviously, I was speaking in General terms but the same trend applies to HBCUs too in that statistically they can fill their class up with whites and Asians several times over if not for affirmative action and their mission to educate black doctors.

I am slightly familiar with Howard because I interviewed there ages ago and even then it felt like everyone I met was African. I am not going to look up the exact numbers now but Howard College of medicine has about 100 students, 25 of those are whites/Indians/Asians. About 50% of the remaining 80 or so black students are African or Afro-Caribbean. Again, should Africans and Afro-Caribbeans be over-represented in an institution meant to provide opportunities for historically disadvantaged and disenfranchised black Americans?

Below is a list of their 2017 and 2018 graduates, I am no expert on names but you can see there are plenty of obvious African names. The point is Africans are overrepresented in medicine and many graduate programs because schools will rather take Africans or afro Caribbeans as their special admits instead of creating pipeline programs and mentorship programs to help Black high school students.

2017 Residency Training Programs - Howard University Medical Alumni Association, Inc.

2018 Residency Training Programs - Howard University Medical Alumni Association, Inc.

This thread is about Howard. Your claiming that African/Caribbean immigrants are taking away spots for admission to Howard Medical school from similarly qualified AAs. Like the Howard admission board is sitting at the table literally saying "Hey. Kwame and Tyrone both have the same scores here, let's reject Tyrone and take Kwame since he's African."

Howard? One of the most highly esteemed HBCUs in the country actively rejecting AA males in favor of immigrants? Do you have any proof at all? Cause This makes no sense.

 

[capt_saveahoe]

There's some double-speak going on here when you say "test scores and grades alone does not determine..." but then say "the average African [immigrant/applicant] is still well behind".

Modern admission practices have acknowledge that the complexity of recognizing someone as "qualified" can't be broken down into a handful of numbers; as if someone with a 140 IQ is "smarter" than someone with a 130. They've turned to more holistic approaches once someone has passed a threshold (e.g. you need to at least have a 120).

This becomes even more complex when you acknowledge the fact that these stats are gamed. I was able to significantly increase my SAT+GRE by taking classes, buying supplemental materials, etc. And I have studied alongside whites with lower numbers than me because they were in military or their father had connections.

There is no double speak. Medicine is about working hard more so than raw intelligence at the same time there are only a few spots so there has to be cutoffs based on testing. Whether you take a class or study for a year we do not care how you do it. Many programs straight filter applicants out by GPA and MCAT score.

The holistic approach shyt you read about on admission website is 90% BS. After your number gets filtered most people already get rejected before a human gives their application a five minute look over.

Seems like some of the replies to my posts are diverging away from my original point which is Africans and Caribbeans are benefiting from affirmative action in education more so than the group it was intended to benefit.

 

[T'krm]

Because I am "Black" admissions do not differentiate between African, African American, Afro Caribbean, a Dominican that doesn't identify as black except on applications.

To admissions offices black is black, they don't care that I came from a household that made over $300k a year, I am a a first gen African American therefore I am Black and "disadvantaged".

All true!! No distinguishment is made, whatsoever! Why #Ados is needed.

 

[capt_saveahoe]

This thread is about Howard. Your claiming that African/Caribbean immigrants are taking away spots for admission to Howard Medical school from similarly qualified AAs. Like the Howard admission board is sitting at the table literally saying "Hey. Kwame and Tyrone both have the same scores here, let's reject Tyrone and take Kwame since he's African."

Howard? One of the most highly esteemed HBCUs in the country actively rejecting AA males in favor of immigrants? Do you have any proof at all? Cause This makes no sense.

You obviously missed my point completely.

 

[HarlemHottie]

My grades and test scores were always good, well above average but not excellent, top schools well rolling out the red carpet for me since high school. I don't think I paid for more than 25% of the cost of traveling to interviews at the really top programs and that was because even my slightly above average number and CV was considered an anomaly for a black person.

This echoes my experience, and that was 15 yrs ago. I had excellent grades in some things, above average in others. I was also heavily courted, I got 'flewed out', never paid for anything. Almost athlete treatment. Because, being black and from Harlem and considerably less fukked up than my peers. And also female.

Me and my man recently worked it out and he was one of a handful ADOS men in our whole class (at an Ivy), and the majority of those were Boule-types. At least a dozen foreigns, possibly more I didn't know/ don't remember. Same at my boarding school. In retrospect it's crazy, but we didn't think nothing of it. We were trained not to by our elders.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

I am guessing you didn't bother to look at the links I posted.

The average African immigrants do not compete on the same level as white people when it comes to admissions into selective undergrads and graduate programs, especially medical school admission. it is not even close. African immigrants have more desire, drive and familial support in education but statistically, we still get into those programs with lower stats. Yes, test scores and grades alone does not determine how good of a doctor or whatever professional one will be but it is the metric used to select candidates. The average African is still well behind statistically.

I am African, I went through the entire process and I have been on the other side of interviewing applicants (med school and residency). My grades and test scores were always good, well above average but not excellent, top schools well rolling out the red carpet for me since high school. I don't think I paid for more than 25% of the cost of traveling to interviews at the really top programs and that was because even my slightly above average number and CV was considered an anomaly for a black person.

What did you score on the MCAT if you don't mind me asking?

 

[LeetStickMcGee]

Cliffs:

-Shows Howard medical school class ( A lot of Asian and white Immigrants)

-The Black men interviews were African

-The chancellor of Howard med said African Americans in medical school is going extinct.

Just wanted to mention they started taking in Asians and whites because they need more money for funding (that's what they say)

 

[Mission249]

There is no double speak. Medicine is about working hard more so than raw intelligence at the same time there are only a few spots so there has to be cutoffs based on testing.

And? I'm simply saying those cutoffs were lowered for some populations and those cutoffs were never a perfect reflection of who's actually the best applicants. Pretty uncontroversial statements most of the time...

Whether you take a class or study for a year we do not care how you do it. Many programs straight filter applicants out by GPA and MCAT score.

They do care how you do it (your circumstances) and they do care what it means, which is, again, why they sometimes lower the required stats.

The holistic approach shyt you read about on admission website is 90% BS.

I didn't read about it - I lived it - on both sides of the admissions and now during hiring or denying candidates where I work, so lets not pretend you know me.
Of course, I was engineering ivy so that's different and I'm interested in your med school perspective.

After your number gets filtered most people already get rejected before a human gives their application a five minute look over

Which is a b.s. situation and why they sometimes lower the reqs and look at other things. Again, I didn't just witness this done for African immigrants but for women and even white men from bad circumstances or who served in military. Are they doing it perfectly? No? Are some people gaming it? Yes.

Anyway...I think we're just repeating ourselves here...

Seems like some of the replies to my posts are diverging away from my original point which is Africans and Caribbeans are benefiting from affirmative action in education more so than the group it was intended to benefit.

I agree with your original point.
But I'm addressing another "point" you made about African immigrants getting in despite lower stats.
Any divergence is cause you started making side comments about how even African immigrants can't compete with whites.

 

[capt_saveahoe]

What did you score on the MCAT if you don't mind me asking?

I took it in the early 2000s before the new version. I got a 35 which was around 96th percentile, my GPA of 3.1 was well below average but it didnt matter. I think only 2 of the several thousand black applicants that year got above a 35 and there were like 10 or so of us in the 33-35 range.

That is how ridiculously under represented blacks are at the higher end. It hasn't changed much over a decade later.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

I took it in the early 2000s before the new version. I got a 35 which was around 96th percentile, my GPA of 3.1 was well below average but it didnt matter. I think only 2 of the several thousand black applicants that year got above a 35 and there were like 10 or so of us in the 33-35 range.

That is how ridiculously under represented blacks are at the higher end. It hasn't changed much over a decade later.

Why do you think that is?

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

This thread is about Howard. Your claiming that African/Caribbean immigrants are taking away spots for admission to Howard Medical school from similarly qualified AAs. Like the Howard admission board is sitting at the table literally saying "Hey. Kwame and Tyrone both have the same scores here, let's reject Tyrone and take Kwame since he's African."

Howard? One of the most highly esteemed HBCUs in the country actively rejecting AA males in favor of immigrants? Do you have any proof at all? Cause This makes no sense.

They’re making excuses.

We just watch and pass am ooo. They complain on the computer in mama’s basement while we are occcasionally commenting from a university library.

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

There are AA black males at Howard. The numbers of black males in medical school are dropping, the number of men in med school are dropping. A lot of talented black kids are being drawn to tech and engineering these days. It is what it is. Tech and Engineering seems sexier, you start making money earlier, those fields go out and recruit for black applicants in a way that medicine just doesn’t.

Encourage the black boys in your life to pursue a medical career. We definitely need more of them.

 

[capt_saveahoe]

And? I'm simply saying those cutoffs were lowered for some populations and those cutoffs were never a perfect reflection of who's actually the best applicants. Pretty uncontroversial statements most of the time...


They do care how you do it (your circumstances) and they do care what it means, which is, again, why they sometimes lower the required stats.


I didn't read about it - I lived it - on both sides of the admissions and now during hiring or denying candidates where I work, so lets not pretend you know me.
Of course, I was engineering ivy so that's different and I'm interested in your med school perspective.


Which is a b.s. situation and why they sometimes lower the reqs and look at other things. Again, I didn't just witness this done for African immigrants but for women and even white men from bad circumstances or who served in military. Are they doing it perfectly? No? Are some people gaming it? Yes.

Anyway...I think we're just repeating ourselves here...


I agree with your original point.
But I'm addressing another "point" you made about African immigrants getting in despite lower stats.
Any divergence is cause you started making side comments about how even African immigrants can't compete with whites.

Are the stats for African immigrants in your program the same for Asians, Indians and whites? Not exactly a controversial statement.

I scored in the 96th percentile and according to AAMC data only 2 blacks/africans/afro-caribbean did better than me that year. Only two out of ~4000 applicants above the 96th percentile and only about 15 scored above the 92-93rd percentile.

Yes, we cannot compete with other groups, including white applicants. if medical school admission becomes a "race blind" "color blind" system the amount of black matriculants (including African immigrants) will drop by half instantly. And there will be almost none of us at the top 20 schools.

Which is why one of my first posts in this thread suggested HBCU's should create more pipeline programs to improve the Black applicants instead of admitting so many Africans and afro caribbeans. Howard is already taking many applicants below the "normal" cutoff, they should use that flexibility to admit more Black Americans that affirmative action is supposed to benefit.

Medical school application is way more involved than most other grad programs and there are too many applicants. The lower extremes get filtered out into the reject bin, the ones with the higher numbers get fast-tracked for interviews. I really only look at applications of those with high stats to make sure they didn't try to get too cute or there isn't some weirdness, arrogance or glaring error. At my school most people that identified as any variety of "Black" or "Hispanic" also got a third review from someone in the office of diversity. This is what saves many of us from the automatic reject bin. If the two or three reviewers do not agree to on whether to interview now, interview later or reject, the application and our comments goes to the dean of admissions and he/she makes the call.