Top 4 Reasons Why Female Centric Super Hero Movies Are Often Trash.

mbewane

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There’s another reason a lot of people don’t talk about…
5.) The omission of the hero’s journey.
(Shout out to @O.Red who puts it better than I can.)
Almost every fantasy/adventure/superhero styled protagonist in fiction follows the basic character arc laid out in the hero’s journey.

The problem is that a lot of modern writers writing female characters want their heroines to have all of the glory without any of the blood, sweat, and tears that it takes to get there. These characters tend to be overpowered with
no flaws—they’re always right, everyone loves them, and you never see them in real danger. These characters tend to be very selfish (“I belong…” “I deserve…”, “I am…” “My truth…”) and never have to learn from failure, sacrifice anything, or overcome any real adversity to accomplish their goals. They get everything handed to them too easily.

Think about all the L’s that Luke Skywalker, and Peter Parker had to take when they were starting out—and how they had to learn hard lessons about the consequences of being impatient and making selfish choices.
Remember how Alex Murphy caught the ultimate L and got lit up by Clarence Boddikker’s gang before he was RoboCop?
Think of how vulnerable John McClane was in Die Hard. That man spent the whole movie outnumbered and outgunned running around barefoot cutting his feet on broken glass.
Amuro (from Gundam) was a whiny, spoiled teenager until Bright Noa smacked the taste out of his mouth and told him to man up.

You don’t see that in a lot of movies or shows today because so many modern feminist writers are too egotistical to let their self-inserts be wrong about anything or take any real L’s. You already know the story will never put these types of characters in real danger so there will never be any stakes. Which makes their stories straight-up boring and predictable.

If you want to be a hero, you’ve got to struggle, sacrifice, train, learn from failure, get better, accept discipline, and overcome your character flaws to earn that.

The original animated Mulan got it right because Mulan was a character who put her life on the line for a selfless cause. She actually had to overcome real failure and adversity in order to become a hero. She went through the trenches to earn her hero cred.
The Bride in Kill Bill was another character who survived taking L’s, trained up, and overcame adversity to get revenge on all the bad guys. She EARNED her wins.

Im not saying this to come off sounding like one of those alt-right he-man-woman haters, because great stories about women deserve to be told. You just have to remember the hero’s journey.

Great point about taking Ls and overcoming them. Came in to talk about The Bride. The blueprint has been there for a couple decades now. But that being said I wouldn't even be surprised if some women are mad at that character because she's "too strong" or "defined by her marital status" or stuff like that
 

Luke Cage

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There’s another reason a lot of people don’t talk about…
5.) The omission of the hero’s journey.
(Shout out to @O.Red who puts it better than I can.)
Almost every fantasy/adventure/superhero styled protagonist in fiction follows the basic character arc laid out in the hero’s journey.

The problem is that a lot of modern writers writing female characters want their heroines to have all of the glory without any of the blood, sweat, and tears that it takes to get there. These characters tend to be overpowered with
no flaws—they’re always right, everyone loves them, and you never see them in real danger. These characters tend to be very selfish (“I belong…” “I deserve…”, “I am…” “My truth…”) and never have to learn from failure, sacrifice anything, or overcome any real adversity to accomplish their goals. They get everything handed to them too easily.

Think about all the L’s that Luke Skywalker, and Peter Parker had to take when they were starting out—and how they had to learn hard lessons about the consequences of being impatient and making selfish choices.
Remember how Alex Murphy caught the ultimate L and got lit up by Clarence Boddikker’s gang before he was RoboCop?
Think of how vulnerable John McClane was in Die Hard. That man spent the whole movie outnumbered and outgunned running around barefoot cutting his feet on broken glass.
Amuro (from Gundam) was a whiny, spoiled teenager until Bright Noa smacked the taste out of his mouth and told him to man up.

You don’t see that in a lot of movies or shows today because so many modern feminist writers are too egotistical to let their self-inserts be wrong about anything or take any real L’s. You already know the story will never put these types of characters in real danger so there will never be any stakes. Which makes their stories straight-up boring and predictable.

If you want to be a hero, you’ve got to struggle, sacrifice, train, learn from failure, get better, accept discipline, and overcome your character flaws to earn that.

The original animated Mulan got it right because Mulan was a character who put her life on the line for a selfless cause. She actually had to overcome real failure and adversity in order to become a hero. She went through the trenches to earn her hero cred.
The Bride in Kill Bill was another character who survived taking L’s, trained up, and overcame adversity to get revenge on all the bad guys. She EARNED her wins.

Im not saying this to come off sounding like one of those alt-right he-man-woman haters, because great stories about women deserve to be told. You just have to remember the hero’s journey.
This one i'm a bit dubious about. I prefer a character to go through a heros journey. but we have to admit we have enjoyed movies where they don't.
arnold is an example of an entire career where he basically is the alpha from beginning to end and people still enjoy his work.

Also one my complaints about the Thor series, is that they force a new heroes journey to start each film. He's an immortal god warrior, and yet we have to find a way to take away his hammer and/or his powers every time out so he can start over again. gets kind of annoying and repetitive. Never builds on the prior journey just repeats it. Sometimes i'd rather he just have his hammer the whole time, and they figure out new ways to challenge him.

I think the example with Rey wasn't because of the lack of heroes journey, it was because her background didn't line up with what they did with the character. If she was an already fully trained jedi like Yoda, we wouldn't be upset. But they decided to start her off as untrained and then fast forward to master. Fast forwarding was the issue.
 
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TheSuperkick!

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Games of thrones showed how to write female characters

:mjlol:
01b22500de64e62b1ac3d646eae85f62
 

Brandsdale

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I think Galadriel from LOTR is a good example of how to show a balanced female character

early season we seen her kill orcs, a troll, beat up male elves, beat up male humans etc. But when Sauron manipulates her, same way he did the ring maker and everyone else, you see that she isnt a typical Mary Sue and has a legit challenge in the antagonist. She goes back to the elves with shame and high elf punishes her for falling for it. We see a powerful woman make mistakes but the story is bigger than her.

Cap Marvel and others make their films solely about the character but everything they do is a cake walk.
 

The Amerikkkan Idol

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You going to tell me Robert Pattinson, Keaton, Clooney looks like a man trained in all types of martial arts to peak physical presentation?
Affleck did. But they are all Batman.

That’s my point.

i said there’s allowed to be a variety of heights and body types.

Superman ain’t 5’5. Iron Man isn’t 5’8. But RDJ is.

There‘s no need for this “exception “ rule. They either suck or don’t. The movie sucks or it doesn’t.
Dude,

George Clooney's 6'0

Robert Pattinson is 6'1"

Ben Affleck is 6'3"

We're talking about Superman, the X-Men, Captain America, etc . . ., where they're people who are supposed represent an ideal.

The girl from Kick-Ass is actually the female version of a Peter Parker or something like that, and she made perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is a 5'3" model/actress beating up grown ass men.

It just doesn't work.

It's almost like wrestling, where, yeah, it's fake, but you still need to believe that The Undertaker COULD whoop somebody's ass in real life to buy it, even though it's not real.
 

Json

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Dude,

George Clooney's 6'0

Robert Pattinson is 6'1"

Ben Affleck is 6'3"


We're talking about Superman, the X-Men, Captain America, etc . . ., where they're people who are supposed represent an ideal.

The girl from Kick-Ass is actually the female version of a Peter Parker or something like that, and she made perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is a 5'3" model/actress beating up grown ass men.

It just doesn't work.

It's almost like wrestling, where, yeah, it's fake, but you still need to believe that The Undertaker COULD whoop somebody's ass in real life to buy it, even though it's not real.
Height has nothing to do with with beating people up. nice how you jumped past Keaton.

Pattinson physically looks like he would get stomped into the ground by Cavill or Affleck Or even Mamoa. But you’re not denying he’s Batman.


except the viewpoint your defending says martial arts knowledge makes it okay so 5’3 actresses can beat up grown men.

You didn’t guy waif thin Elodie Yung beating up guys as Elektra?
 

Wargames

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Black Widow and Wonder Woman should be the model for Female led Action movies, and black Widow could have been better.
 

Jaguar93

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:yeshrug:Unless they start casting the Jade Cargills of the world. Or it becomes normalized for the women in these roles. To beef up like their male counterparts. Then don’t expect the Wonder Womans, and Captain Marvels to actually look like brick houses lol. That’s not to say that none of these actresses. Aren’t getting into shape for their respective roles.
 

Luke Cage

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Dude,

George Clooney's 6'0

Robert Pattinson is 6'1"

Ben Affleck is 6'3"

We're talking about Superman, the X-Men, Captain America, etc . . ., where they're people who are supposed represent an ideal.

The girl from Kick-Ass is actually the female version of a Peter Parker or something like that, and she made perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is a 5'3" model/actress beating up grown ass men.

It just doesn't work.

It's almost like wrestling, where, yeah, it's fake, but you still need to believe that The Undertaker COULD whoop somebody's ass in real life to buy it, even though it's not real.
People seem ignore this double standard, Michael J Fox even if he was in his prime, would never be cast as Thor. But a woman of any height or build can literally be cast as any female comic book superhero. We have Tessa Thompson 5'4" playing an asgardian. 6'3" in the comics. And all asgardians are supposed to tower over normal humans. Literally supposed to be a race of Gods that are bigger than humans on average.
 
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Luke Cage

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:yeshrug:Unless they start casting the Jade Cargills of the world. Or it becomes normalized for the women in these roles. To beef up like their male counterparts. Then don’t expect the Wonder Womans, and Captain Marvels to actually look like brick houses lol. That’s not to say that none of these actresses. Aren’t getting into shape for their respective roles.
They seemed to like casting women like this in the Mandalorian, and they were well received.
 

Luke Cage

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Man, this is some incel type thread.
Incels would be mad that they have women starring in these films at all. Talking about boycotting these movies.
I watch all these films. I'm just talking about why they flop, and how they are setting themselves up for failure.
Reason why Charlies Angels was successful vs The Marvels flopping is a valid discussion.
But realistically it doesn't matter what you label it, if incels are the ones determining the success of your films, then you need to cater to that audience in order not to flop. Make the shape of water type movies if you are relying on women to carry the box office, because they obviously aren't packing the theaters for action films.
 
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