Tim Duncan has 5 rings why isn’t he ever mentioned in top 5

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Rhakim said:
From 1990-1996 the Spurs were led by David Robinson, an MVP and one of the top all-around big men ever, and yet they only made one WCF and lost in the 1st round 3 times. Claiming they were "perennial elite" is bs, outside of having Robinson they weren't that good at all.

David Robinson after the injury was nothing like his prime. His athleticism was gone and he was entering his mid-30s. From '98 to '01 he was a good complementary star but he wasn't a superstar, and after 2001 when he was 36/37 he was just a role player.

There were teams who had much better running makes than :flabbynsick: Robinson in the early 2000s. Shaq had Kobe, obviously. Dirk had Nash. Hell, even 2001 Mutombo was a better running mate than 2001 Robinson.





And yet he's still considered top-5 all-time. So why not Duncan, whose teams were less stacked and who did far more on the defensive end than Magic ever did?

The difference between Duncan and Magic on defense is much bigger than the difference between Magic and Duncan on offense. That doesn't mean you should put Duncan above Magic (I don't), but he at least deserves to be in the same conversation.




Shaq only elevated his scoring against ass Finals teams, you don't hold that against him.

So what about the Lakers teams that Duncan beat both those years? Or the Dirk-Nash-Finley-van Exel Mavs?





The only one of those players I rank Duncan above is Shaq, and I think they're close. But Duncan outplayed Shaq multiple times head-to-head when they were both in their absolute prime, so bragging that Shaq was more scoring oriented than Duncan isn't much praise to me. Shaq ramped up his scoring a few time against weak-ass centers and was completely unable his team in numerous other situations. He was a low-post player who relied on his teammates to get him the ball in good position and didn't do jack-shyt when his team wasn't stacked compared to the opp, while Duncan was a much more all-around player who elevated his whole team on both ends no matter who was playing. I usually rank Duncan #6 and Shaq in the #7-9 range.
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Who’s in your top 10?
 
Remote

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Rhakim said:
The made the WCF then ran into one of the biggest juggernauts of all time. Why would you compare that to a squad (with Kobe and Odom) that didn't even make it past the 1st round?

I wouldn't say Duncan had a stacked squad until 2005 or so. Before that he was making due with mostly role players. Look at his 2003 championship team. There wasn't a single All-Star on that team besides him. His #2 was a 20yo Tony Parker who was still 3 years away from making his first all-star team. His #3 was a completely washed 37yo David Robinson averaging 10ppg in the Finals. His #4 was a young Stephen Jackson in just his 3rd season, his #5 was rookie Manu who averaged 7ppg.

That squad, without a single teammate even close to All-Star status, beat:

The Marbury/Marion/Amare/Penny Suns
The Shaq/Kobe/Horry/Fisher Lakers
The Dirk/Nash/Finley/Van Exel Mavs
The Kidd/Kenyon/RJ/Kittles Nets

Every one of the teams that Duncan beat that year had a better supporting cast than Duncan did. The Lakers and Mavs especially were stacked compared to his team. Yet none of them were even able to seriously challenge the Spurs - they closed every series with a double-digit victory in Game 6, and in the case of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers beat them by almost 40.

You look at the 1999 and 2003 title teams, those are some of the weakest supporting casts that any star has carried to a title in the last 25 years. The fact Duncan doesn't get credit for doing that is wild.
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Great player puts up 28 PPG and loses = HE NEEDS HALP!!!! :damn::damn::damn:

Great player puts up 22 PPG and wins = HIS TEAM WAS STACKED!!! :damn::damn::damn:

Way too many basketball fans are morons.
 
Rakim Allah

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Rhakim said:
This is the dumbest possible attack on Duncan. :mjlol:

His titles have nothing to do with "flying under the radar". The Spurs were one of the favorites every year, how can posters be ripping on them for being a perennial elite team and then claim they were "flying under the radar? Especially in years like 2005, 2007, and 2014 when they had been just a hair from the title the previous season. None of their squads that won were flying under the radar at all. The Spurs didn't repeat cause of bad circumstances.

The only time they got to defend a title with the same squad without age/injury issues was 2006, and they lost that year by the thinnest of margins. The main reason the Spurs never repeated was because they had fluke injuries and relied on guys near retirement too often.

2000 Duncan got injured and was out for the season
2004 Lost 3 starters from the previous year and the Lakers had to create the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton superteam to beat them
2006 Won 60 games but lost to the Mavs with that disputed call in Game 7 in what many consider one of the greatest series of all time
2008 Ginobli got hurt, Horry retired, Barry/Bowen/Finley needed to retire
2015 Duncan was on his last legs and it still took a CP3 game-winner in Game 7



Kareem didn't repeat until he was a 40yo role player and he was already considered the GOAT long before that. Magic didn't repeat until his last title and they were already calling him arguably the new GOAT. Bird and Wilt never repeated at all and that's never brought up in their top-10 arguments. The idea that Bron would be less respected if he won in 2012 and 2014 instead of 2012 and 2013, or that Curry would be less respected if he won in 15/17/19 instead of 15/17/18, is just silly.
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But Kareem defended a title and Duncan’t did not. That’s something you and Duncan’t are going to have to live with for rest of your life. And sadly, so far it is not going to well for you, friend.:francis:
 
Rakim Allah

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Remote said:
Quite possibly the stupidest argument that Kobe stans ever make.

"This other guy has the same number of titles as my guy....but the other guy spread his over more time so they somehow mean less...even though they don't"

:mjlol:
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I could only imagine the pain you are feeling, friend.:francis:
 
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nieman said:
He was no longer dominant though, and it definitely wasn't on both ends. Duncan would go on the block, call for it, and go into his move. He played aggressive, even when his numbers didn't jump out at you. I'd say '05 or '06 he wasn't playing the same. He was looking like a shell of himself even the '07 chip vs Lebron...I think that's the year Boozer (in Utah) made a name for himself, kept dragging Timmy out and shooting that high-arching shot over him. He looked slow in '05 vs the Pistons as well. He had about a 6-7 year run. He really started coasting after that. Like I said, he went from aggressive to Sheed...coasting. They clearly became a system team before he even had a decade in.
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What kind of nitpicking are we doing here? He didn't look the same against the greatest defensive team ever...that his team won against? Some dude hit some shots in a 4-1 series...that shows he was a shell of himself? Tim gave Shaq that work as a 2nd year player, was Shaq not dominant or coasting? Once again, I think you are interpreting letting other guys cook as him coasting. He was still clearly the best player on the team during the fourth chip run, he basically let Parker have FMVP. He was drafted in 97...that's a decade breh. Once the Spurs did transition to more of system team, led by Parker and Ginobli they suffered their most embarrassing Ls and went 7 years between chips. This dude carried a franchise on his back for a decade to the tune of 4 chips, in the same conference as Kobe and Shaq for much of that time, and cats wanna belabor the lack of back to back and him finally taking a step back after a decade?
 
duckbutta

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Rakim Allah said:
But Kareem defended a title and Duncan’t did not. That’s something you and Duncan’t are going to have to live with for rest of your life. And sadly, so far it is not going to well for you, friend.:francis:
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Oh no the horror of my favorite player not winning back to back titles how will I ever go on :mjlol:

This thread is approaching rafter status:mjlol:
 
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