Tim Duncan has 5 rings why isn’t he ever mentioned in top 5

[ISO]

He'd have a much better shot than TP or Manu. It's not like SA was the the Lakers or C's or shyt even the Rockets or Pistons and had all this championship history before he got there. They had never so much as made a Finals and within 2 years with him they had a chip. Tony was in HS and Manu was in Mypos.

Let's keep it a buck, you put Tony on another team that isn't nearly as successful as the Spurs, are you and others holding him in the same esteem? Does he even get those All NBA nods. shyt does he get the chances to learn and grow, or the development, that he got from SA. You think he's able to do all that you listed at the same level with the defense focused on him?

You really think a 6'2 guy that didn't play defense and didn't shoot 3s was the ideal partner for young Bron?

The Spurs were already nice before Duncan got there perennial contenders. Duncan put them over the hump.

There’s no telling how Tony develops elsewhere but the Spurs find diamonds in the rough. It’s pretty possible he was just under the radar, you can’t teach the quickness or feel he had. U think defense weren’t focused on him I mean the Heat put LeBron on him in an NBA Finals game. U think teams weren’t trying to stop his dribble penetration? Whose to say what he does paired with another great player in a different situation? It seems like you’re praising the Spurs organization and I agree with you Pop and the front office excelled at finding compatible pieces, diamonds in the rough, could plug and play, and creating a system and game plans that were foul proof.

TP played defense, he competed, he was average, he could function in a team defense and the Cavs had a good one. Mo Williams was a below average defender and that was LeBron’s point. TP never needed a three ball because he was hyper efficient. He finished at the rim at a high clip, he finished around the rim at floater range at a high clip and his midrange was butter, he was fast as shyt and a problem off the screen, he could create his own, he could take over games.

 

[ISO]

shyt is amazing. Look at the way people talk about those guys, and Duncan got past them twice (first time Kobe was young but they had Glen Rice too) with the likes of Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, young inconsistent TP and Manu, and flabby D. Rob as his backup and people either ignore it or cop pleas. If that was any other player, nikkas would be writing sonnets about the 99 season. Instead, people want to put an asterisk by it because the wrong team won.

Who cares none of this name dropping matters at tip off. The Spurs were a team with a foul proof system. Lakers were top heavy, Spurs were deeper all starters averaged double digits.

The ‘99 Lakers were a poor defensive team (25th in opponents points per game, 23rd in defensive rating). Spurs slow that shyt down make you play their style.

 

[FTBS]

The Spurs were already nice before Duncan got there perennial contenders. Duncan put them over the hump.

There’s no telling how Tony develops elsewhere but the Spurs find diamonds in the rough. It’s pretty possible he was just under the radar, you can’t teach the quickness or feel he had. U think defense weren’t focused on him I mean the Heat put LeBron on him in an NBA Finals game. U think teams weren’t trying to stop his dribble penetration? Whose to say what he does paired with another great player in a different situation? It seems like you’re praising the Spurs organization and I agree with you Pop and the front office excelled at finding compatible pieces, diamonds in the rough, could plug and play, and creating a system and game plans that were foul proof.

TP played defense, he competed, he was average, he could function in a team defense and the Cavs had a good one. Mo Williams was a below average defender and that was LeBron’s point. TP never needed a three ball because he was hyper efficient. He finished at the rim at a high clip, he finished around the rim at floater range at a high clip and his midrange was butter, he was fast as shyt and a problem off the screen, he could create his own, he could take over games.

Great discussion breh.

There is a significant gap between nice and a championship team. We've seen countless teams look the part year after year and never get over that hump. They were a perennial disappointment come playoff time. D.Rob is one of superstars that not only didn't turn up but he actually got worse.

Tim was the focus of opposing teams defenses for the first four chips. Dude used to get straight triple teamed. No one, including Tony could be counted on consistently until 06, 07. The Ton you are referencing is the one that was putting up the nice numbers and it was indeed him and Manu's team and they suffered their worst playoff Ls. Only so many great players and ain't too many Timothy's. An unselfish great passer that can also get buckets doesn't just grow on trees.

TP never needed a 3 ball because he was surrounded by shooters and a great passing, unselfish big. A 3 ball would most certainly be needed on the Cleveland teams. He ain't stopping Rondo. Hedo is a horrible matchup for him too. shyt they drafted Ridnour top 10 provide spacing for Bron.

 

[FTBS]

Who cares none of this name dropping matters at tip off. The Spurs were a team with a foul proof system. Lakers were top heavy, Spurs were deeper all starters averaged double digits.

The ‘99 Lakers were a poor defensive team (25th in opponents points per game, 23rd in defensive rating). Spurs slow that shyt down make you play their style.

Players matter in basketball more than any other sport. All starters average double digits but only one average more than 14. Spurs couldn't have done shyt if Duncan wasn't giving Shaq that work. He outscored a 27 year old Shaq by 5 ppg. Spurs avg 8 more ppg.

That "fool proof" system didn't look so great and they weren't able to control shyt when Duncan went down the next year and they lost in 4 in the first round.

 

[ISO]

Great discussion breh.

There is a significant gap between nice and a championship team. We've seen countless teams look the part year after year and never get over that hump. They were a perennial disappointment come playoff time. D.Rob is one of superstars that not only didn't turn up but he actually got worse.

Tim was the focus of opposing teams defenses for the first four chips. Dude used to get straight triple teamed. No one, including Tony could be counted on consistently until 06, 07. The Ton you are referencing is the one that was putting up the nice numbers and it was indeed him and Manu's team and they suffered their worst playoff Ls. Only so many great players and ain't too many Timothy's. An unselfish great passer that can also get buckets doesn't just grow on trees.

TP never needed a 3 ball because he was surrounded by shooters and a great passing, unselfish big. A 3 ball would most certainly be needed on the Cleveland teams. He ain't stopping Rondo. Hedo is a horrible matchup for him too. shyt they drafted Ridnour top 10 provide spacing for Bron.

Yes but they added Tim to what they already had. D-Rob wasn’t washed yet and he himself probably could have scored more had Tim not been there. D-Rob was as good a running mate as a player could have in the late 90’s. It’s not just offense but defense and how they together as the Twin Towers are not to be scored on.

LeBron had other shooters around him he didn’t specifically need a PG who could shoot threes. Mo’s three ball fell off come playoff time. More so what LeBron needed was a secondary playmaker/shot creator and TP was a great one. LeBron could have used that or a big.

 

[FTBS]

Yes but they added Tim to what they already had. D-Rob wasn’t washed yet and he himself probably could have scored more had Tim not been there. D-Rob was as good a running mate as a player could have in the late 90’s. It’s not just offense but defense and how they together as the Twin Towers are not to be scored on.

LeBron had other shooters around him he didn’t specifically need a PG who could shoot threes. Mo’s three ball fell off come playoff time. More so what LeBron needed was a secondary playmaker/shot creator and TP was a great one. LeBron could have used that or a big.

If he was able to just fit in and have his inconsistent growing pains (like TP and Manu) and still win then you would have a point. However, he had to ball out as a 2nd year player to get them over the hump. What they already had was a squad that won 20 games without D. Rob and a D. Rob that was still effective but he wasn't the MVP caliber player he had been. So you basically added young Duncan and a lesser version of Robinson to 20 win team. Duncan was the one that stepped up and led the charge.

Mo's 3 fell off and they lost. Parker didn't have one to fall off. I would say Bron needed an athletic big more, as bigs still mattered then and Dwight and KG destroyed them (well all the Celtics but Pierce did). I'm not sure TP would have been a notable improvement over Mo considering who they were going against.

 

[ISO]

If he was able to just fit in and have his inconsistent growing pains (like TP and Manu) and still win then you would have a point. However, he had to ball out as a 2nd year player to get them over the hump. What they already had was a squad that won 20 games without D. Rob and a D. Rob that was still effective but he wasn't the MVP caliber player he had been. So you basically added young Duncan and a lesser version of Robinson to 20 win team. Duncan was the one that stepped up and led the charge.

Mo's 3 fell off and they lost. Parker didn't have one to fall off. I would say Bron needed an athletic big more, as bigs still mattered then and Dwight and KG destroyed them (well all the Celtics but Pierce did). I'm not sure TP would have been a notable improvement over Mo considering who they were going against.

Of course he had to ball but the nucleus was in play. Duncan was no regular second year player he was a 4 year college player. Of course the Spurs won 20 games without D-Rob. He was the best player and did it all for them. D-Rob fell back because he played with Duncan. Still in the context of that league he was as good a number two as you can get because of his two way impact and his pairing with Duncan on the defensive end was unfair.

TP didn’t need the three. He had the midrange which is invaluable in a playoff setting and he put a ton of rim pressure on opposing defenses. LeBron and TP could avalanche teams together with runs like he did with Kyrie and Wade.

 

[FTBS]

Of course he had to ball but the nucleus was in play. Duncan was no regular second year player he was a 4 year college player. Of course the Spurs won 20 games without D-Rob. He was the best player and did it all for them. D-Rob fell back because he played with Duncan. Still in the context of that league he was as good a number two as you can get because of his two way impact and his pairing with Duncan on the defensive end was unfair.

TP didn’t need the three. He had the midrange which is invaluable in a playoff setting and he put a ton of rim pressure on opposing defenses. LeBron and TP could avalanche teams together with runs like he did with Kyrie and Wade.

The nucleus that disappointed in the playoffs and crumbled without their best player? In 97 a four year college player was still pretty regular and regardless of how long he played in college, a 2nd year player doing what he did is just not normal. How many 2nd year guys have led, not just been on the squad, not played pretty well, but flat out led their squad to a chip? It's special. We can't just dismiss it or try to minimize it because he didn't dunk from the FT line or beat his chest. D. Rob fell back because he wasn't the same player and he was more than willing to let the young dude lead the charge because he had proven he wasn't cut for it. That's not a diss. I respect that level of awareness and commitment to winning over selfishness. He contributed, like everyone else. Can't win a chip without everyone contributing. But there is no denying that that chip was about Duncan's brilliance as a 23 year old.

 

[Chris Cool]

Parker was the one making All-Star and All-NBA teams in D-Will’s era.

There’s a revisionist history to his game that he’s leapfrogged Parker, Nash, Billups, and even fukking CP3 to some in that late 00’s era.

It was Deron Williams vs CP3. It's revisionist history to act like it wasn't.

 

[ISO]

It was Deron Williams vs CP3. It's revisionist history to act like it wasn't.

The All-Star appearances and All-NBA’s in that time period don’t match

CP3 and Deron were matched through draft class. This was an argument 2009, 2010. Yes, I remember it. In those seasons yeah you can say he was up there (never better than Paul, just better head to head because of his size).

Deron leapfrogging Billups, Nash, Parker for that whole era is bullshyt.