Tim Duncan has 5 rings why isn’t he ever mentioned in top 5
- Thread starter the cool
- Start date
Remind me how many Finals the Spurs made, let alone won, before Duncan became their #1?
Remind me how may Finals the Spurs made, let alone won, after Duncan could no longer lead them?
Saying "The Spurs were always stacked who cares who was on the team" is a nonsensical argument. Without Duncan they wouldn't have done shyt between 1998 and 2015.
I didn't know you were a ppg guy. Magic never had to ramp up his scoring and his squads were far better than Duncan's, that doesn't stop him from being considered top-5 all-time almost universally. Duncan was a dominant defender, rebounder, AND scorer who led his team on both ends of the court.
Hell, Duncan averaged 27-14-2 with 3 blocks/game in the 1999 Finals and 24-17-5 with 5 blocks/game in the 2003 Finals, big-time numbers in that low-scoring era. Those two stat lines are easily as good or better than Kobe's best two winning lines. In fact, Kobe only reached 27ppg in a Finals 2 out of 7 times, and in one of those two he was 28-8-4 on just 40% shooting.
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murksiderock
Superstar
Look at this dumbass shytjust give it up brother man
Are you disputing that of Top 10 guys Kobe's postseason play isn’t near or at the very bottom?
you called Kobe a regular season warrior....you werent even watching ball during the 3 peat era......get the fukk outta here
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
They didn’t win but they were perennial elite regular season teams. They then added Duncan on top of D-Rob who was still very good after the injury and as good a running mate as anyone in the league at that time.
Magic’s teams were stacked and he was the PG in an era they were expected to be distributors more so than scorers.
The ‘99 Knicks and ‘03 Nets were ass Finals teams. Shaq abused the Nets arguably more so the year prior.
I’m not a points per game guy but if we’re going to talk about him ranking higher than people like LeBron, Hakeem, KAJ, Shaq, it needs to noted that those players had to ramp up their scoring in the regular season and playoffs in ways Duncan didn’t.
DeRozan and a random ass assortment of young nikkas and vets are 31-29 and have a top 10 defense as of now they’re in the play in tournament
Fytb?
Pop's rotations have been trash. He's behind a minimum of 10 of their losses this year. He complains about too many games in too many days, yet continuously loads up Mills and Gay's minutes while the Devin Vassell's and Luka Samanic's of the world just sit on the bench. He was only forced to see what he had in Keldon Johnson last year when Mills and Forbes got hurt in the bubble. The fact that they're looking up to Memphis and Dallas in the standings currently is a failure on his part.
murksiderock
Superstar
you called Kobe a regular season warrior....you werent even watching ball during the 3 peat era......get the fukk outta here
I been watching ball since '99, stop it...
Maybe "regular season warrior" isn't the best descriptor for him but my overall point that me and the other guy were having isnt really disputable...
From 1990-1996 the Spurs were led by David Robinson, an MVP and one of the top all-around big men ever, and yet they only made one WCF and lost in the 1st round 3 times. Claiming they were "perennial elite" is bs, outside of having Robinson they weren't that good at all.
David Robinson after the injury was nothing like his prime. His athleticism was gone and he was entering his mid-30s. From '98 to '01 he was a good complementary star but he wasn't a superstar, and after 2001 when he was 36/37 he was just a role player.
There were teams who had much better running makes than
Robinson in the early 2000s. Shaq had Kobe, obviously. Dirk had Nash. Hell, even 2001 Mutombo was a better running mate than 2001 Robinson.And yet he's still considered top-5 all-time. So why not Duncan, whose teams were less stacked and who did far more on the defensive end than Magic ever did?
The difference between Duncan and Magic on defense is much bigger than the difference between Magic and Duncan on offense. That doesn't mean you should put Duncan above Magic (I don't), but he at least deserves to be in the same conversation.
Shaq only elevated his scoring against ass Finals teams, you don't hold that against him.
So what about the Lakers teams that Duncan beat both those years? Or the Dirk-Nash-Finley-van Exel Mavs?
The only one of those players I rank Duncan above is Shaq, and I think they're close. But Duncan outplayed Shaq multiple times head-to-head when they were both in their absolute prime, so bragging that Shaq was more scoring oriented than Duncan isn't much praise to me. Shaq ramped up his scoring a few time against weak-ass centers and was completely unable his team in numerous other situations. He was a low-post player who relied on his teammates to get him the ball in good position and didn't do jack-shyt when his team wasn't stacked compared to the opp, while Duncan was a much more all-around player who elevated his whole team on both ends no matter who was playing. I usually rank Duncan #6 and Shaq in the #7-9 range.
Rakim Allah
Superstar
And never successfully defended a title. You can’t fly under the radar with a bulls eye on your back.
This is the dumbest possible attack on Duncan.
His titles have nothing to do with "flying under the radar". The Spurs were one of the favorites every year, how can posters be ripping on them for being a perennial elite team and then claim they were "flying under the radar? Especially in years like 2005, 2007, and 2014 when they had been just a hair from the title the previous season. None of their squads that won were flying under the radar at all. The Spurs didn't repeat cause of bad circumstances.
The only time they got to defend a title with the same squad without age/injury issues was 2006, and they lost that year by the thinnest of margins. The main reason the Spurs never repeated was because they had fluke injuries and relied on guys near retirement too often.
2000 Duncan got injured and was out for the season
2004 Lost 3 starters from the previous year and the Lakers had to create the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton superteam to beat them
2006 Won 60 games but lost to the Mavs with that disputed call in Game 7 in what many consider one of the greatest series of all time
2008 Ginobli got hurt, Horry retired, Barry/Bowen/Finley needed to retire
2015 Duncan was on his last legs and it still took a CP3 game-winner in Game 7
Kareem didn't repeat until he was a 40yo role player and he was already considered the GOAT long before that. Magic didn't repeat until his last title and they were already calling him arguably the new GOAT. Bird and Wilt never repeated at all and that's never brought up in their top-10 arguments. The idea that Bron would be less respected if he won in 2012 and 2014 instead of 2012 and 2013, or that Curry would be less respected if he won in 15/17/19 instead of 15/17/18, is just silly.
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Duncan sacrificed individual numbers for the greater good of the team and in order to compete for championships. This gets used against him though by stat followers who simply look at numbers to decide who is best. Same issue Isiah Thomas has.
Controversy
Superstar
Rolling with Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, Admiral, Bowen, Manu, Kerr, Kevin Willis and Parker in 03 was a very strong supporting class
Duncan was a superstar in 03 but that team was not bummy by any means
Controversy
Superstar
Who on the Nets could adequately defend Duncan
The first time Duncan faced comp in the finals was against Detroit
Controversy
Superstar
Clutch moments, defensive stops, closing games, scoring outbursts, all around games...Kobe did it all in the playoffs
if he didn't tear his Achilles, he would've finished his career #1 in playoff scoring