Lord_Chief_Rocka
Superstar
So the best player's productivity isn't the reason they're winning?
The meaning(lessness) of Westbrook's triple-doubles
- Thread starter Professor Emeritus
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The hate on Russ is irrational. Just sit back and enjoy what he's doing. We are in a age where players rather take a day off than suit up and here we got a guy who brings it every single night. Not only is he putting up crazy numbers but he hasn't missed a game all year. That alone is impressive considering the motor this guy has.
Some of these arguments don't make sense. He's a ballhog yet he is 3rd in the entire league in assists averaging 10+. His triple doubles don't equal more wins yet the Thunder have a way better record when he accomplishes a triple double vs the games he doesn't. Brehs this is the first time in our lifetime someone has been able to accomplish this feat. Enjoy it for what it is.
Some of these arguments don't make sense. He's a ballhog yet he is 3rd in the entire league in assists averaging 10+. His triple doubles don't equal more wins yet the Thunder have a way better record when he accomplishes a triple double vs the games he doesn't. Brehs this is the first time in our lifetime someone has been able to accomplish this feat. Enjoy it for what it is.
Blackrogue
Superstar
I think Russ numbers are impressive. I've been looking at him statistically wondering how wall can get there but the more i look at it the less im enamoured .
His rebounds are coming off silly schemes, hes ball watching and thinking more about rebounds.
Hes playing very little defense and again neglects D to chase stats.. So his numbers would be better but he has made the team worse in that play.
I have some qualms with his assists and points in the sense that his choices are bad and are mostly dictated by chasing numbers.
He takes a ton of shots. When he on hell get 57 points on 40 shots or whatever but when he's off.. I watched them play the wizards aftee wondering what John can do to close this supposed gap. John played like a pg and run the team in a balanced way and generally played the right way. Russ shot okc out the game and it reached a point they had missed so many shots in a row the game was a blow out and Russ was shutdown early for good.
He can likely get the MVP becsuse his team has totally given him the reigns and sold out to get him his numbers. So he is the most valuable to the team.
Now he can do what he wants
His rebounds are coming off silly schemes, hes ball watching and thinking more about rebounds.
Hes playing very little defense and again neglects D to chase stats.. So his numbers would be better but he has made the team worse in that play.
I have some qualms with his assists and points in the sense that his choices are bad and are mostly dictated by chasing numbers.
He takes a ton of shots. When he on hell get 57 points on 40 shots or whatever but when he's off.. I watched them play the wizards aftee wondering what John can do to close this supposed gap. John played like a pg and run the team in a balanced way and generally played the right way. Russ shot okc out the game and it reached a point they had missed so many shots in a row the game was a blow out and Russ was shutdown early for good.
He can likely get the MVP becsuse his team has totally given him the reigns and sold out to get him his numbers. So he is the most valuable to the team.
Now he can do what he wants
Goat poster
KANG LIFE
Scottie Pippin just said Russell Westbrook is having the single greatest season he has ever seen.
Goat poster
KANG LIFE
They have a WINNIING record when he gets a triple double and LOSING record when he doesn't .
Seems to me the whole team is better when he balls out.
Fair enough.They have a WINNIING record when he gets a triple double and LOSING record when he doesn't .
Seems to me the whole team is better when he balls out.
Although I understand the point others make that the triple double is kind of an arbitrary way to look at things.
Consider that in the 1986-87 season the Chicago Bulls were 22-15 when Michael Jordan scored at least 40 points in a game. And they were 18-27 when he scored less than 40.
By your logic, Michael scoring 40 points led to more winning. But 40 points is arguably just as arbitrary as a Triple Double. And in the end the team itself wasn't very good, so how valuable was he really?
The league noticed. Jordan finished 2nd to Magic Johnson in the MVP voting that year.
Though to be fair, maybe you do think Jordan deserved it in 87. In which case you see a good comparison.
I'm just saying that like 40 points, a Triple Double might mean less than it appears.
I'll let @The Dankster speak for himself tho.
at these " is anyone playing better due to his play" arguments these are always the most foolish arguments. yes in fact they're playing better due to him. we are one of the worst teams in the league when he's off the floor. team is -9.4 when he's off the floor ; rockets is actually a +5.7 when hardens off the floor. see the difference 
So the best player's productivity isn't the reason they're winning?
Defense is the strong suit of the team according to analytics and eye test and Westbrook has the least contested shots of any player playing 30+ minutes in the NBA. He therefore contributes the least on that team defensively. He is the offense, without him their record would drop. But they are his defense, without them he'd be Demarcus Cousins status, never making the playoffs but putting up big numbers.
I don't think this means what you think it means in the larger picture tho.
I AM WARHOL
Veteran
The hate is pathetic at this point
please explain why the thunder falls off the cliff when westbrook sits if he's not optimal
I AM WARHOL
Veteran
Saw someone say this hurts the game 
I feel like harden flopping at the 3 point line and continually spamming the refs hurts the game more than Russell chasing triple doubles
I feel like harden flopping at the 3 point line and continually spamming the refs hurts the game more than Russell chasing triple doubles
So the best player's productivity isn't the reason they're winning?
Do you really believe rebounds and assists are a perfect major of a player's productivity?
Is Russell chasing rebounds instead of playing defense helping the team or hurting the team? You've seen the videos - can you seriously tell me that playing that way makes the team better?
There are a LOT of ways to measure productivity. Creating shots while limiting turnovers, making shots while limiting misses, getting offensive boards, getting contested boards, playing good defense, etc. Whether Russ gets a trip or not doesn't tell you whether those things happened.
When Russ gets blown out and shuts down early, he doesn't get a triple double. When the other team misses a lot of shots, he gets more boards. THAT is why his triple doubles come on wins and not losses. It has nothing to do with him playing differently in wins, it is just about staying in the game long enough and the other team missing shots.
They have a WINNIING record when he gets a triple double and LOSING record when he doesn't .
Seems to me the whole team is better when he balls out.
If you dont understand then I don't know what to say. You didn't read my posts or just didn't understand them.
Just answer this. What do you think Russ is doing in the trip-dub games that he's failing to do in losses. How do you actually think he's playing different?
I think Russ numbers are impressive. I've been looking at him statistically wondering how wall can get there but the more i look at it the less im enamoured .
His rebounds are coming off silly schemes, hes ball watching and thinking more about rebounds.
Hes playing very little defense and again neglects D to chase stats.. So his numbers would be better but he has made the team worse in that play.
I have some qualms with his assists and points in the sense that his choices are bad and are mostly dictated by chasing numbers.
He takes a ton of shots. When he on hell get 57 points on 40 shots or whatever but when he's off.. I watched them play the wizards aftee wondering what John can do to close this supposed gap. John played like a pg and run the team in a balanced way and generally played the right way. Russ shot okc out the game and it reached a point they had missed so many shots in a row the game was a blow out and Russ was shutdown early for good.
He can likely get the MVP becsuse his team has totally given him the reigns and sold out to get him his numbers. So he is the most valuable to the team.
Now he can do what he wants
Yup.