Tariq Nasheed on new Star Wars movie - "12 Years a Space Slave"

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"Aragon was introduced as a mysterious stranger"- Aragon was introduced as a man who is shirking the responsibility of Leadership and Rule. By the end of the movie he is leading the Fellowship, winning the respect of his companions through SEVERAL heroic deeds, and beginning to take his first steps toward his destiny.

"Neo as a savior"- I guess I dreamt that the first part of the movie where he's a low level hacker, working a boring office job, who at first refuses to believe the Matrix until Morpheus gives him the red pill and "awakens" him to his destiny? I guess the part where through training and self reliance he discovers he is the "One" and has his Hero moment defeating Agent Smith didn't happen? Neo was NEVER "Mr. Anderson" and by the end of the movie, and through SEVERAL heroic deeds was beginning to take his first steps towards his destiny?


"Luke as the son of a Jedi"- Luke grew up knowing his parentage? He was ready to take on the mantle of Jedi from the beginning? Or was it that after embracing his lineage and power, winning the respect of his companions through SEVERAL heroic deeds, is beginning to take his first steps towards his destiny...






1). When Did I say my issue wasn't with the racial implications of the CHARACTER? They aren't mutually unexclusive. He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.

2). If you were reading I write that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as a selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the day then it can work within his "arc"

"Getting two kills I'm the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.

"Saving Rey on Jakku"- when did this happen? When he first met her she beat his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the :why: Face almost the entire time. If you are referring to his shooting of the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?


"Getting a few kills in the fight outside the Bar"- Correct me if I'm wrong but I saw one kill, Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.

"Going on a rescue mission"- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl? :wtf: Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.

"Fighting a Sith and injuring him"- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" the. I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you have him was assisted by someone else. Matter of fact you reached HARD with a couple of them...


Only Rey and Poe got hero moments? Of course they did, they along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.

Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.

Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base



Ah yes the heroes journey. Story telling 101 and you put it

let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for unitiated.



The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.

Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land


Ok so let's use Finn, are supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.

Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So I'm this second trial, he FAILS.

Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man ho kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.


This is the moment when your








You lose...






Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey


The Boon (Reward)



11]

The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."


Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).

Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.

Finn....is in a Coma...


Won ZERO battles

Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.

So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"

Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren


No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's

Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE

So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it:camby:
zeIms8L.png
 

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We gonna act like Star Wars only lets ONE nikka on screen at film at a time?

I guess we just gonna ignore that.

They'll put you in a mask or some shyt...but only ONE gets to show their face at a time.

Lando

Mace

Finn

All the others like Lupita or James Earl Jones...masked up. :sas2:
 

Crayola Coyote

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So what I got out of this thread is dude is a garbage man who's constantly getting smacked around and is just a supporting character even though the trailers made it look like he was gonna be the protagonist. And he doesn't even become a "jedi" (whatever the fukk that means anyway)?

Yep. The white chick throughout the movie knew how to do xyz and use a light saber. It didn't add up what so ever.
 

Verbal Kint

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1). When Did I say my issue wasn't with the racial implications of the CHARACTER? They aren't mutually unexclusive. He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.

2). If you were reading I write that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as a selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the day then it can work within his "arc"

"Getting two kills I'm the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.

"Saving Rey on Jakku"- when did this happen? When he first met her she beat his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the :why: Face almost the entire time. If you are referring to his shooting of the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?


"Getting a few kills in the fight outside the Bar"- Correct me if I'm wrong but I saw one kill, Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.

"Going on a rescue mission"- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl? :wtf: Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.

"Fighting a Sith and injuring him"- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" the. I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you have him was assisted by someone else. Matter of fact you reached HARD with a couple of them...


Only Rey and Poe got hero moments? Of course they did, they along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.

Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.

Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base



Ah yes the heroes journey. Story telling 101 and you put it

let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for unitiated.



The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.

Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land


Ok so let's use Finn, are supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.

Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So I'm this second trial, he FAILS.

Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man ho kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.


This is the moment when your








You lose...






Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey


The Boon (Reward)



11]

The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."


Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).

Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.

Finn....is in a Coma...


Won ZERO battles

Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.

So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"

Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren


No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's

Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE

So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it:camby:

First off I only quoted the first 5 steps of the Hero's journey because there are still 2 more movies to complete it. We're only 1/3 of the way through the story and nobody's arc is completed other than Han's.
Also you keep chalking up everything he did as an L and I disagree. I've already stated why. You can't come to grips with the idea that the fact that dude has no discernible skills yet chooses to risk himself for others is, in fact, heroic. You also continue to stay on this 'liar' theme like its not a common trope in movies for characters to lie about skills and motivations. If this was unique to Fin then sure, I'd give you that but its not. Not to mention that there are plenty of 'hero moments' where heroes get saved by others, beat or even sacrifice themselves for others. Fin fighting a Sith with no training was in itself a hero moment. But regardless, judging the quality of a character based on whether or not he had a 'hero moment' you deem worthy is silly and this is going nowhere. Hate the movie all you want, and feel free to chase shadows.
 

Pifferry

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So I guess you completely missed the scenes where Finn (and Poe) escaped from the First Order and destroyed the ships following them? Finn showed skill there. He showed courage in breaking Poe out to begin with. Or the scene where Finn (and Rey) destroyed the ships following them on Jakku. Again, Finn showed skill there. Or the scene where Finn told the entire Resistance about the vulnerabilities of the First Order's headquarters, which led to the destruction of the planet before it had time to shoot the missile. All Finn's plan. A young black kid telling a room full of adults what to do. I can't believe you got dapped 26 times for that garbage. You clearly didn't watch the film or already had your mind set up :stopitslime: Secondly, Finn going up to fight Kylo Ren was brave, you dufus. That's like Ronald Weasley trying to fight Voldemort. And he held his own for a while against a more experienced fighter despite never using a lightsaber. Finn got more screen time than anyone in the film not named Rey or Kylo Ren. He got more screen time and was more integral to the plot than the other white dude Poe yet someone you turn it into a negative. I still can't believe you try to downplay the fact that this nikka's ideas set up the destruction of the First Order's headquarters :snoop: The fact that you smooth tried to downplay that is mad deceitful.
Rey did everything in the film :troll:
It was her idea to use posion on the ship to kill the stormstroopers that turned out to be Han and Chewie, not Finn's:troll:
She didn't even care about Finn, he was chasing her the entire film without in reciprocated feelings :troll:
(this is all wrong and it was Finn's idea to use the poison)
 

Crayola Coyote

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I thought Finn was great and his heroic moment was going up against Kylo despite knowing how powerful he was and putting up quite a fight.

As others have said if this character was white there would be none of these complaints. we have two more films with Finn in them I'm expecting a more resilient, wiser and better fighter Finn in both those movies.

We expect Fin to be just like the white characters which we don't get that. Movie was good though but they tried homie to be a coward, list and a white girl chaser
 

MalikReloaded

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First off, Finn is a well written character. He had a major impact on the story. Anyone saying otherwise is a moron who already had his mind set up before he stepped in the theater. It's the role of a lifetime for Boyega. Second, nikkas complain when there's no black characters. Then complain when there are black characters. How about this....go make your own fukking movie. Write your own fukking books. Stop trying to force the white man to put you in his story. From what I"m gathering in this thread, you cornballs are mad because the black kid wasn't the major star of the movie. Why would whites make a black person the star in their movie :mjlol: Think about that for a second. Would black directors make a white person the star in their movie :mjlol: No. So why do you expect them to do it. That's how sad yall sound right now. Begging to have a Black Luke Skywalker. Make your own black sci-fi/fantasy stories, support black people writing black fantasy/sci-fi instead of the bullshyt Tyler Perry movies. Whatever though. I'm wasting my breath. They didn't even HAVE to put a black kid in a major role in this movie. Please understand this :mjlol: Nor did they have to give him that much screen time and character development. He got more than anyone in the movie except Kylo Ren and Rey. Somewhere on the internet, chinese people, arab people, indian people and hispanic people are like :dwillhuh: because as usual, they are a non-factor. No representation. No major characters that are their race. Nobody cares about them. No major roles on Star Wars. They'd be happy to have a Chinese Finn. If you want a Black Luke Skywalker, get your dusty ass off the Coli and go write a story. Because you begging white people to do it is laughable.
 

Nigerianwonder

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Was anyone else bothered at the beginning when the white chick kept tellin finn to keep his hands off her and let her hand go? She said it like 3 times and to me it felt more like she was saying "dont touch me nikka". It didn't sit well with me.. They went out of their way to make the point she was not going to be romantically involved with him while he lusted after her the whole film. Didn't even get a real kiss at the end when he half dead. Just a forehead peck and her emphasizing he is just her friend. White nerds can breathe easier now..

But tariq is right and the more I think about Finns role the more I'm disgusted. They did him so bad at the end I forgot about half of all the other messed up things they did to him in the movie... Fumbling around with the tools when Rey was an expert at everything and needing her direction.. then he was fumbling around with bombs needing direction from Hans. Sold himself as a slave and shown fumbling around loading some shyt. Sweating profusely.. running from everything. His eyes buggin and nostrils flaring in every scene.. just a disgrace as black male lead character. Only thing missing was scene of him eating some space melon on the ship talking about "I show was hungry massa Han..."

and lol at Tariq yellin "Reeeyyy" like danny glover in leathal weapon yellin "Riiigggs"

And with all the talk on Finn.. Lets talk about Lupitas character.. I didnt realize who she was playing until after the film when I looked it up. They took a beautiful black woman and made her an ugly ass alien. And then on top of that she was crushin on Chewie.. A giant space GORILLA... These white folks cant help themselves man..
 

Pifferry

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Was anyone else bothered at the beginning when the white chick kept tellin finn to keep his hands off her and let her hand go? She said it like 3 times and to me it felt more like she was saying "dont touch me nikka". It didn't sit well with me.. They went out of their way to make the point she was not going to be romantically involved with him while he lusted after her the whole film. Didn't even get a real kiss at the end when he half dead. Just a forehead peck and her emphasizing he is just her friend. White nerds can breathe easier now..

But tariq is right and the more I think about Finns role the more I'm disgusted. They did him so bad at the end I forgot about half of all the other messed up things they did to him in the movie... Fumbling around with the tools when Rey was an expert at everything and needing her direction.. then he was fumbling around with bombs needing direction from Hans. Sold himself as a slave and shown fumbling around loading some shyt. Sweating profusely.. running from everything. His eyes buggin and nostrils flaring in every scene.. just a disgrace as black male lead character. Only thing missing was scene of him eating some space melon on the ship talking about "I show was hungry massa Han..."

and lol at Tariq yellin "Reeeyyy" like danny glover in leathal weapon yellin "Riiigggs"

And with all the talk on Finn.. Lets talk about Lupitas character.. I didnt realize who she was playing until after the film when I looked it up. They took a beautiful black woman and made her an ugly ass alien. And then on top of that she was crushin on Chewie.. A giant space GORILLA... These white folks cant help themselves man..
Wow you're fukking insane:dwillhuh:
 

prophecypro

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Be interesting to see how Finn's journey develops in the other film. I didnt expect any kinda coronation first film out
 
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