why didnt you post this in the spoilers thread in the film room
should have posted this in the spoiler thread in the film room too
should have posted this in the spoiler thread in the film room too, too
Tariq Nasheed on new Star Wars movie - "12 Years a Space Slave"
- Thread starter KingDanz
- Start date
Crayola Coyote
Superstar
Yep.
i aint see one trailer with the white girl doing anything impressive....total let down
Verbal Kint
Superstar
I don't doubt that there are implications and lessons good or bad to be found in all movies/shows, I'm just saying I don't agree that the portrayal of this character was negative. The convo me and my guys had leaving the movie was about the push of feminism and how unlikely it was that some untrained young woman would be near strong enough to sword fight with a grown man
Paradise50
Superstar
One of his funniest in awhile. Don't care for Star Wars but now I want to see it
This nikka on the Death Star:
Lets break this down
Original motivation was to not kill innocent people, against all of his training and literally everything he'd ever known. After that it was to get as far away from the First Order as possible since he'd be a wanted traitor. Then he was motivated to help the droid get home even though that wasn't his original goal. After that it was to save Rey. Let's talk about that. You keep dismissing it as 'save the white girl' even though you claim your issue is with the CHARACTER and not the racial implications. 'The white girl' was only the 2nd real person he'd ever encountered and probably the first physical contact he's had with a woman. They escaped death together multiple times meaning he clearly feels strongly connected to her as she's the closest thing to a friend he's ever had. It makes complete logical sense for him to have a strong desire to save her
Its about the character right? So lets talk about THIS movie. You continue to ignore his multiple heroic moments
- disobeying orders to kill
- rescuing poe
- getting 2 kills in the first escape
- saving Rey on Jakku
- getting a few kills in the fight outside the bar
- going on a rescue mission
- bringing the shield down
- fighting a Sith and actually hurting him
Not only all that but in THIS movie, who else got a hero moment? Only Rey and Poe. Nobody else really did anything. Even Han didn't have any big moment before he died
I like the original Star Wars but am in no way a fanboy or a die hard. And I go into these as open eyed as any other brotha but I don't agree with your assessment. Writing anyone that disagrees off as having 'wool over their eyes' is a weak way of trying to dismiss their arguments without logic
Frodo stayed getting sonned in the first LOTR. Luke almost got drowned in a trash compacter. Not to mention that you're comparing this dude to the guys portrayed from the first movie as hardcore action heroes, other than maybe Luke. Aragorn was introduced as a mysterious ranger, Neo as a savior, and Luke as the son of a Jedi. Fin was an anonymous storm trooper. Not the same thing at all
So you're disagreeing with storytelling 101, huh? It's called the Hero's Journey. Know what the first steps are?
Sound familiar? Of course it does. This is Fin's arc in the movie. 1-Regular stormtrooper / 2- decides he ain'y bout that life and leaves / 3- wants to escape and get away from the First Order / 4 - sees them take Rey/gets the light saber from shorty with the glasses / 5- decides to risk his life to save Rey
with your clearly uninformed opinion of his arc
"Aragon was introduced as a mysterious stranger"- Aragon was introduced as a man who is shirking the responsibility of Leadership and Rule. By the end of the movie he is leading the Fellowship, winning the respect of his companions through SEVERAL heroic deeds, and beginning to take his first steps toward his destiny.
"Neo as a savior"- I guess I dreamt that the first part of the movie where he's a low level hacker, working a boring office job, who at first refuses to believe the Matrix until Morpheus gives him the red pill and "awakens" him to his destiny? I guess the part where through training and self reliance he discovers he is the "One" and has his Hero moment defeating Agent Smith didn't happen? Neo was NEVER "Mr. Anderson" and by the end of the movie, and through SEVERAL heroic deeds was beginning to take his first steps towards his destiny?
"Luke as the son of a Jedi"- Luke grew up knowing his parentage? He was ready to take on the mantle of Jedi from the beginning? Or was it that after embracing his lineage and power, winning the respect of his companions through SEVERAL heroic deeds, is beginning to take his first steps towards his destiny...
1). When Did I say my issue wasn't with the racial implications of the CHARACTER? They aren't mutually unexclusive. He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.
2). If you were reading, I write that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the end then it can work within his "arc"
"Getting two kills in the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.
"Saving Rey on Jakku"- when did this happen? When he first met her she beat his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the
Face almost the entire time. If you are referring to his shooting of the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?"Getting a few kills in the fight outside the Bar"- Correct me if I'm wrong but I saw one kill, Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.
"Going on a rescue mission"- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl?
Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence."Fighting a Sith and injuring him"- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" then I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you gave him was assisted by someone else. Matter of fact you reached HARD with a couple of them...
Only Rey and Poe got hero moments? Of course they did, they along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.
Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.
Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base
Ah yes the heroes journey. Story telling 101 as you put it
let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for the uninitiated.
The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.
Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land
Ok so let's use Finn, our supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.
Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So in this second trial, he FAILS.
Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man who kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.
This is the moment when your
You lose...
Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey
The Boon (Reward)
11]
The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.
Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."
Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).
Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.
Finn....is in a Coma...
Won ZERO battles
Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.
So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"
Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren
No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's
Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE
So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it
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do you nikkas have to complain about everything? Now star wars is a racist film? 
IllustratorMike
All Star
This nikka on the Death Star:
its worth seeing just so you can reveal in how low-key they are about shyt.
Remember, this is hollywood, its ALWAYS about messaging.
Theres literally introduction classes to film talking about EVERY aspect of anything on screen. If you can think of any motive, it was planned.
Tariq is the GOAT internet persona
That nicca's Finn face.
onelastdeath
Banned
What do you know, nikkas be unhappy again 
over nothing.
nikkas can't even eat in a starring role without nikkas complaining
over nothing.nikkas can't even eat in a starring role without nikkas complaining
MalikReloaded
All Star
Maybe if the marketing hadn't CLEARLY been a ridiculous Bait and Switch then people wouldn't have been misled.
Make no mistake, this isn't a case of black people seeing that Boyega had been cast and just hoping he'd be Force Sensitive. It was shyt like THIS
That had people thinking he'd be the main hero and a Jedi. Keep in mind. He's the FIRST human character in the cinematic continuity to wield a Lightsaber in combat and NOT turn out to be Force Sensitive. THATS how far they went to market him as a hero, only to switch it and have the white girl be the hero.
It was pure mis-marketing and it was bullshyt.
People keep saying if "Finn were White you wouldn't have a problem". That's a cop-out, the fact of the matter is he's NOT white, and again, if the marketing of the movie hadn't been built around Finn as an important character with the Force, then you might have an argument. But not only did he turn out to not have the Force, he was a cowardly, bumbling, comedic side kick, with no goal beyond "save Rey", which he didn't accomplish. Every single thing he set out to do in the film he failed at. He failed in fighting the storm trooper (Han saved him) he failed to save Rey (Rey saved herself, within 30 minutes of first using the force) he failed in fighting Kylo Ren and wound up in a coma (Rey kicked Kylo's ass, again within 24 hours of first using the force)
Han was a selfish jerk in ANH? Fantastic, he STILL got his moment of heroism in the film when he came back to help Luke.
Luke was a Whiny farm boy? Great, he STILL destroyed the Death Star.
Leia was a spoiled Brat? Yep, she STILL was the one who ended up saving both Luke and Han on Vadar's stronghold when they were outgunned and overmatched.
The fact of the matter is that Finn is the ONE "main" character out of SIX movies to accomplish absolutely nothing by the climax. If it weren't for Boyega's performance the character literally would've been worthless.
He couldn't pilot
He couldn't fight
He couldn't save the white girl
He got his ass kicked by Rey
He got his ass kicked by Chewie
He got his ass kicked by the random Alien
He got his ass kicked by A Storm Trooper
He got his ass kicked by Kylo Ren
Where's the redemption in all of this? Where's the supposed "Destiny" that has been awakened when the final shot of his character he isn't even fukking CONSCIOUS!!?!!
Because if his "destiny" was to carry the lightsaber until the white girl awoke to her destiny then you can miss me with that shyt. Hell they should've went ahead and just cast a white actor and kept it moving
So I guess you completely missed the scenes where Finn (and Poe) escaped from the First Order and destroyed the ships following them? Finn showed skill there. He showed courage in breaking Poe out to begin with. Or the scene where Finn (and Rey) destroyed the ships following them on Jakku. Again, Finn showed skill there. Or the scene where Finn told the entire Resistance about the vulnerabilities of the First Order's headquarters, which led to the destruction of the planet before it had time to shoot the missile. All Finn's plan. A young black kid telling a room full of adults what to do. I can't believe you got dapped 26 times for that garbage. You clearly didn't watch the film or already had your mind set up
Secondly, Finn going up to fight Kylo Ren was brave, you dufus. That's like Ronald Weasley trying to fight Voldemort. And he held his own for a while against a more experienced fighter despite never using a lightsaber. Finn got more screen time than anyone in the film not named Rey or Kylo Ren. He got more screen time and was more integral to the plot than the other white dude Poe yet someone you turn it into a negative. I still can't believe you try to downplay the fact that this nikka's ideas set up the destruction of the First Order's headquarters 
The fact that you smooth tried to downplay that is mad deceitful.
Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man ho kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.
This is the moment when your
You lose...
at the whole post especially this part. After all those Ls, that is when destiny was supposed to awake.Bu bu but he delivered the vital plans to the resistance
