Ray Daniels: Pusha T is overrated and underachieved compared to who he was next to

[JustCKing]

Sounds like you're just moving goal posts to suit your agenda

I have no agenda. I've been listening to Pusha since "The Funeral". I think he's a good MC. I just don't see him as elite. And yes, he underachieved. NONE of you offered an explananation as to how Pusha DIDN'T underacheieve. You've offered excuses which include his age , his content, and he wasn't trying to be mainstream. When I countered that argument with examples of Common and Scarface dropping music with Kanye that both impacted and sold records without trying to be mainstream, it was crickets. People asked who else had access to Pharrell and Kanye and were big, I listed 2Chainz, who is the same age as Push and was also signed to G.O.O.D. Also had dope boy rap content.

 

[_DC]

c’mon now. Do your research. Dude is an industry executive and major A&R. The guy has plaques and awards for his work.

Yall come in here being ignorant over this shyt just to undermine the thread

Yea! Me personally, I fukk with Push.

But, Ray Daniels definitely deserves respect..

 

[ECA]

Still doesn't equate to better career. Push dropped his first solo in 2013. 2Chainz dropped his in 2012. In the past decade or so, Push only has ONE solo anything with a certification and that's "If You Know You Know". 2Chainz meanwhile has several songs that have certifications even songs that don't have features. He actually has a platinum album to his name.

What have you done for me lately? 2Chainz been going triple butter cookie lately and Push just went number 1 and is acclaimed by critics and Grammy voters

 

[Braman]

I mean…he’s right. I’d just focus it on artistic merit and not popularity

Artistically, yea he’s a disappointment bc he doesn’t have any depth as an artist. So there is no Allure, Never change, Momma Loves me….or Sing About Me, or Love Yourz.

Given that he has Pharrell and Kanye we know he could have got those soul stirring beats but wtf he done on em, talk more about crack. So yea, even while Daytona and It’s almsot dry are great albums, there’s a level Pusha never could get to .

Even someone like Game, his albums stick to your ribs more bc he has depth.

 

[Invalid_Password]

I have no agenda. I've been listening to Pusha since "The Funeral". I think he's a good MC. I just don't see him as elite. And yes, he underachieved. NONE of you offered an explananation as to how Pusha DIDN'T underacheieve. You've offered excuses which include his age , his content, and he wasn't trying to be mainstream. When I countered that argument with examples of Common and Scarface dropping music with Kanye that both impacted and sold records without trying to be mainstream, it was crickets. People asked who else had access to Pharrell and Kanye and were big, I listed 2Chainz, who is the same age as Push and was also signed to G.O.O.D. Also had dope boy rap content.

It seems like your argument is that he underachieved on a mainstream level...which is not the level he ever cared to be judged by.

He has the accolades and respect amongst his peers.
He has had a extremely successful career amongst them.
He gets features from the biggest names in the industry because they respect his craft.
They want to work with him. It's not some boost to breakthrough on the scene for him.
Lyrically he's respected by the top tiers.
He's notable enough to be the main rival of Wayne and Drake for years
Pharrell been rocking with him since the clipse days and they have the VA connect. Same with Breezy.
He has solid projects in every arena (Group/Solo/Mixtape)

20+years in the game

I guess I'm just still not certain what exact metric backs the statement that he has underachieved.

 

[JustCKing]

It seems like your argument is that he underachieved on a mainstream level...which is not the level he ever cared to be judged by.

He has the accolades and respect amongst his peers.
He has had a extremely successful career amongst them.
He gets features from the biggest names in the industry because they respect his craft.
They want to work with him. It's not some boost to breakthrough on the scene for him.
Lyrically he's respected by the top tiers.
He's notable enough to be the main rival of Wayne and Drake for years
Pharrell been rocking with him since the clipse days and they have the VA connect. Same with Breezy.
He has solid projects in every arena (Group/Solo/Mixtape)

20+years in the game

I guess I'm just still not certain what exact metric backs the statement that he has underachieved.

No, he underacheived for the reasons outlined in the OP. His entire career, he's had production from the BIGGEST producers in music, not Hip Hop, but music. Look at the results.

Breh, he's only the main rival of Wayne and Drake because he spent years baiting them not the other way around. And even still, this isn't Nas vs Jay Z where it was two of the greatest battling. And Jay basically baited Nas and got ethered. We still got Blueprint and Stillmatic from that battle. We got "Ether" and "Takeover" from that battle. Push vs Drake gave us what exactly? "Story of Addidon" and Daytona. Now, "Adidon" may be in the parthenon of greatest disses of all time, but Daytona certainly isn't a Stillmatic or Blueprint caliber album. Push dissed the biggest rapper out and literally wasn't elevated at all despite it putting eyes on him that probably didn't check for him prior (I'm talking Drake fans).

 

[JustCKing]

What have you done for me lately? 2Chainz been going triple butter cookie lately and Push just went number 1 and is acclaimed by critics and Grammy voters

In 21 years, Pusha T still only has TWO certifications despite every album being helmed by Kanye, Pharrell, and Timbaland. Three of the biggest producers of the past 25 years.

 

[Funcrusher]

He completely lacks charisma and style. If anything, he overachieved.

 

[Yecht]

We can strip commercial performance completely away from this argument…2Chainz at his peak had more core cultural relevance than Pusha has had at any point of his solo career, and perhaps at any point of his entire career barring Grindin … Pusha hasn’t ever had an authentic bottom-up run where he heated up on the streets and forced his way up through to the commercial realm like 2chainz did in his T.R.U. REALigion mixtape era…2chainz forced himself into “hottest nikka in the game” conversations, and not on some hipster pitchfork review critical darling bullshyt…his joints were actually resonating without piggybacking, to the thread’s point, on the clout of a Pharrell or a Kanye….does Pusha have anything that actually impacted culturally like Spend It or Riot? It’s basically the Jim Jones argument over again…and why he’s objectively overrated

Then on top of all that, Chainz still had the more successful commercial career

Every word of this is Cap. Culture relevance is an absolutely unproveable metric, especially in rap where shyt is way different region to region. I fukk with Chainz, but his biggest peak was his Mercy verse - a song that Push also featured and killed - and then it was a slow but steady decline ever since. He had a good run as a feature artist for a while but nobody ever was checking for a Chainz solo project. Nothing he dropped was critically acclaimed or commercially successful, and what's he doing now? Meanwhile Push latest 2 albums are his best

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Every word of this is Cap. Culture relevance is an absolutely unproveable metric, especially in rap where shyt is way different region to region. I fukk with Chainz, but his biggest peak was his Mercy verse - a song that Push also featured and killed - and then it was a slow but steady decline ever since. He had a good run as a feature artist for a while but nobody ever was checking for a Chainz solo project. Nothing he dropped was critically acclaimed or commercially successful, and what's he doing now? Meanwhile Push latest 2 albums are his best

Mind you, using actual tangible metrics 2Chainz has had clearly the more successful solo career…but people dismissed it with the weak “bu bu but what about vanilla ice” argument …which is why I pivoted to a more abstract discussion about core cultural impact

But Nah, if you’re of the culture you know what’s truly relevant in it and what’s not… and for you to make that comment in bold, in the context of comparing him to Pusha T solo projects is comedy…Chainz was legit one of the hottest nikkas in the game off the strength of legitimate from the ground up buzz that rang off in real life…TRU REALigion/Codiene Cowboy era Chainz had authentic motion out here..not cause some hipster white boy at Complex was a fan like has been propping up push his whole solo career…that he got to be in position to be on mercy in the first place was because of the clout he earned

 

[Invalid_Password]

No, he underacheived for the reasons outlined in the OP. His entire career, he's had production from the BIGGEST producers in music, not Hip Hop, but music. Look at the results.

Breh, he's only the main rival of Wayne and Drake because he spent years baiting them not the other way around. And even still, this isn't Nas vs Jay Z where it was two of the greatest battling. And Jay basically baited Nas and got ethered. We still got Blueprint and Stillmatic from that battle. We got "Ether" and "Takeover" from that battle. Push vs Drake gave us what exactly? "Story of Addidon" and Daytona. Now, "Adidon" may be in the parthenon of greatest disses of all time, but Daytona certainly isn't a Stillmatic or Blueprint caliber album. Push dissed the biggest rapper out and literally wasn't elevated at all despite it putting eyes on him that probably didn't check for him prior (I'm talking Drake fans).

I guess what I'm saying is; because of his talent and respect amongst his peers, he has the luxury of working with top tier (mainstream) talents without looking to make a mainstream hit or thrive in that arena.
He probably walks into Ye and Pharrell studios and they open the vault. His selection of instrumentals is most certainly different from a plethora of artists that probably benefit from the production cosign (trying to appeal to mainstream) more than anything.

Everything else I mentioned is to show he has many achievements for an artist that doesn't care to break the mainstream barrier.
The main metric cannot be mainstream appeal for a ton of artists.
So if you remove that ceiling and add up the accomplishments/accolades of his career it's difficult to state he has underachieved when the measure of success isn't clearly defined.

 

[The Connoisseurs]

Y'all feel this way because push not from a major city with street music backing. No one on this board can name 5 rappers from Virginia other than the clipse.

If Push was from NY(raised), LA Chi..etc this convo wouldn’t even exist

 

[Deltron]

Y'all feel this way because push not from a major city with street music backing. No one on this board can name 5 rappers from Virginia other than the clipse.

If Push was from NY(raised), LA Chi..etc this convo wouldn’t even exist

It's not that deep. This convo and thread onl7l6 exists cause OP is an indian drake dikk sucking fakkit.


He lives vicariously through drake and hates the same people drake hated

 

[Yecht]

Mind you, using actual tangible metrics 2Chainz has had clearly the more successful solo career…but people dismissed it with the weak “bu bu but what about vanilla ice” argument …which is why I pivoted to a more abstract discussion about core cultural impact

But Nah, if you’re of the culture you know what’s truly relevant in it and what’s not… and for you to make that comment in bold, in the context of comparing him to Pusha T solo projects is comedy…Chainz was legit one of the hottest nikkas in the game off the strength of legitimate from the ground up buzz that rang off in real life…TRU REALigion/Codiene Cowboy era Chainz had authentic motion out here..not cause some hipster white boy at Complex was a fan like has been propping up push his whole solo career…that he got to be in position to be on mercy in the first place was because of the clout he earned

I've heard every Chainz album, they are fine. His mixtapes are better, but his features kill anything he does solo. He's like Method Man, something about his voice and style really stands out next to others but gets monotonous and boring by itself for a whole album


If you from the South and brehs was running to get his shyt, I won't hold you. I'm from the DMV and up here he was always just that guy with a few dope Vs and that was it. But I stand on the fact he don't have the critical acclaim Push has, and I'd guess they are probably about equal on sales. So by non-arbitratry metrics like "cultural relevance", Push wins.

You could also easily argue that merking Drake outweighs anything Chainz has done in terms of cultural relevance

 

[The Connoisseurs]

It's not that deep. This convo and thread onl7l6 exists cause OP is an indian drake dikk sucking fakkit.


He lives vicariously through drake and hates the same people drake hated

It ain’t but as a hip hop enthusiasts to what I assume we all are it’s weird. These dudes got gassed from that Jim Jones diss.