Mic-Nificent
I didn't eat nobody
Yeah, I guess that's why Kobe's game fell off so dramatically when Shaq left the Lakers.
How is kobe not top 5 alltime when there arent 5 players with a better resume?
- Thread starter BrothaZay
- Start date
Yeah, I guess that's why Kobe's game fell off so dramatically when Shaq left the Lakers.
god shamgod
Veteran
Smarten up
I'm talkin about when HE PLAYED with shaq so the meaningless numbers that are posted showing his averages compared to shaq's were because shaq was the 1 option that teams gameplanned to stop.While kobe had the perimeter to do whatever he wanted
After shaq left kobe's fga's and fta's went up because he shot the ball more,drew more fouls and got his wish of not being the sidekick.Only problem was the lakers missed the playoffs and were a 7th seed that couldn't get out the 1st round
I'm talkin about when HE PLAYED with shaq so the meaningless numbers that are posted showing his averages compared to shaq's were because shaq was the 1 option that teams gameplanned to stop.While kobe had the perimeter to do whatever he wanted
After shaq left kobe's fga's and fta's went up because he shot the ball more,drew more fouls and got his wish of not being the sidekick.Only problem was the lakers missed the playoffs and were a 7th seed that couldn't get out the 1st round
ItzDaKiing
Freedom
Check the post above you, during the GOAT playoff team's run. Against one of our chief rivals in SA. Looks equal to me.
Breh, according to this Kobe was clearly carrying the team in scoring. Its not equal.
Mic-Nificent
I didn't eat nobody
Smarten up
I'm talkin about when HE PLAYED with shaq so the meaningless numbers that are posted showing his averages compared to shaq's were because shaq was the 1 option that teams gameplanned to stop.While kobe had the perimeter to do whatever he wanted
After shaq left kobe's fga's and fta's went up because he shot the ball more,drew more fouls and got his wish of not being the sidekick.Only problem was the lakers missed the playoffs and were a 7th seed that couldn't get out the 1st round
Who would you pick to ride with for a 7 game playoff series?
Playing at their prime levels (not like they catch fire for a quarter, but playing ball as they did during their best 2-3 seasons):
If you were doing a draft for that playoff series...what order do you rank these dudes?
Duncan
Garnett
Kobe
Tmac
AI
Dwade
Dirk
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird
Pippen
---
my list:
1. Duncan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq
4. Bird
5. Kobe
6. Garnett
7. Dirk
8. Tmac
9. Dwade
10. Pippen
11. AI
Of these dudes, the top 4 (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Bird) may end up with a worse resume (due to Kobe's longevity), but IMO had a bigger impact on winning games than Kobe. Then once you throw in MJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell, and Oscar...its just too crowded to let Kobe in the Top 5 Alltime.
He's a Top 10 player, but beyond that - I can't see myself putting him ahead of dominant big men (Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell, Duncan) or guys like MJ & Magic who affected the game in more ways than Kobe.
When I think of the best players of all time, I think of which players played at the highest level, within some minimum amount of time. However, too many people take all time cumulative statistics a bit too far.
For example:
To me, TMAC is a better player than Ray Allen, because his peak was much higher. Ray may have a longer, more consistent career, but TMAC's apex was so much more dominant that its no contest.
On the other hand Penny can't be considered "greater" than Ray Allen , because Penny's period of greatness was cut drastically short by injuries.
Rather than just comparing cumulative stats or All NBA awards at the end of players careers, I compare their prime seasons and only take into account longevity as a tie breaker.
Playing at their prime levels (not like they catch fire for a quarter, but playing ball as they did during their best 2-3 seasons):
If you were doing a draft for that playoff series...what order do you rank these dudes?
Duncan
Garnett
Kobe
Tmac
AI
Dwade
Dirk
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird
Pippen
---
my list:
1. Duncan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq
4. Bird
5. Kobe
6. Garnett
7. Dirk
8. Tmac
9. Dwade
10. Pippen
11. AI
Of these dudes, the top 4 (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Bird) may end up with a worse resume (due to Kobe's longevity), but IMO had a bigger impact on winning games than Kobe. Then once you throw in MJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell, and Oscar...its just too crowded to let Kobe in the Top 5 Alltime.
He's a Top 10 player, but beyond that - I can't see myself putting him ahead of dominant big men (Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell, Duncan) or guys like MJ & Magic who affected the game in more ways than Kobe.
When I think of the best players of all time, I think of which players played at the highest level, within some minimum amount of time. However, too many people take all time cumulative statistics a bit too far.
For example:
To me, TMAC is a better player than Ray Allen, because his peak was much higher. Ray may have a longer, more consistent career, but TMAC's apex was so much more dominant that its no contest.
On the other hand Penny can't be considered "greater" than Ray Allen , because Penny's period of greatness was cut drastically short by injuries.
Rather than just comparing cumulative stats or All NBA awards at the end of players careers, I compare their prime seasons and only take into account longevity as a tie breaker.
god shamgod
Veteran
This nikka needs steve nash and dwight howard just to attempt getting back to the finals
If son dont have franchise players to help him the lakers go 34-48
Kobe will be the black brett favre he'll play 18-19 years and finish with numbers but he'll never be regarded as the Goat.
If son dont have franchise players to help him the lakers go 34-48
Kobe will be the black brett favre he'll play 18-19 years and finish with numbers but he'll never be regarded as the Goat.
Kobe's played with NBDL all stars before and made the playoffs.
Shaq used to get OWNED by Hakeem? WTF are you talking about?
Shaq was the only reason the Magic stood any ground against the Rockets during that time period. LOL@Robinson. Get real No one was stopping Shaq from powering in and slamming on their asses one on one...he was making fool out of everyone. Kareem wouldn't have been to do those sky hooks time and time again on Shaq in his prime..you got to be kidding me. Shaq would steamroll over him..probably be the easiest in and outs of his career. Shaq would of bullied him around easily. And that Shaq at the start or especially his prime in the late 90s and early 2000s where he was absolutely unstoppable.
You can do a poll ANYWHERE that's not this place apparently with their Kobe worshipping gimmick but if you were to start a team from scratch with names like Shaq, Jordan, Bron, Kareem, Magic, or Kobe...I can guarantee you any REAL basketball purist is going with Shaq first because he will instantly get you to the Playoffs and Finals on his dominance alone. Everyone else is gonna need to be padded with some serious help..especially if they go against his team.
god shamgod
Veteran
Mic-Nificent
I didn't eat nobody
Funny that people still trying to be on that "He need another great player just to win a championship"
When you look at the top ten players of all time Hakeem is the only one who won a title without another elite player (overall or at their position) on his team.
When you look at the top ten players of all time Hakeem is the only one who won a title without another elite player (overall or at their position) on his team.
Dudes in here are talking absolutely insane. The thing with Shaq and all of that stuff with Russel and the other top centers. Wilt is his real competition in history..Wilt was nearly unstoppable. The guy was going CRAZY for quite some time. Would he have been able to be going that crazy had he went against a Shaq? No. No one was gonna dominate a physical presence like Shaq year after year. Not possible. The reason why Wilt and Russel were able to do what they are is because they didn't play against Shaq during their era..Shaq had to deal with Jordan and his unstoppable teams. The greatest basketball player of all time in his prime who was on a roll for years. That was his competition. So all of those goofy rankings of Shaq not being the top center in history is absurd. There was no one that impacted or shyt, even changed the way the refs call the game like he did. They implemented new rules just to stop him from being as dominant as he was. Unheard of.
LOL@Duncan. He didn't stop Shaq in his prime. Ben Wallace didn't. Hakeem didn't. None of them did. Hakeem looked good in those Finals because Shaq's team flaked out on him.
And Hakeem would of never been champion in the first place if Jordan didn't retire. He's kind of a paper champion.
Mic-Nificent
I didn't eat nobody
Shaq used to get OWNED by Hakeem? WTF are you talking about?
Kareem wouldn't have been to do those sky hooks time and time again on Shaq in his prime..you got to be kidding me. Shaq would steamroll over him..probably be the easiest in and outs of his career. Shaq would of bullied him around easily. And that Shaq at the start or especially his prime in the late 90s and early 2000s where he was absolutely unstoppable.
You can do a poll ANYWHERE that's not this place apparently with their Kobe worshipping gimmick but if you were to start a team from scratch with names like Shaq, Jordan, Bron, Kareem, Magic, or Kobe...I can guarantee you any REAL basketball purist is going with Shaq first because he will instantly get you to the Playoffs and Finals on his dominance alone. Everyone else is gonna need to be padded with some serious help..especially if they go against his team.
Shaq HIMSELF said that Hakeem embarrassed him.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEQH5QRH60I&feature=player_detailpage#t=106s]Shaq discusses Hakeem and Ewing - NBA Open Court - YouTube[/ame]
LOL@went on. Where was all of these accolades when he was with Shaq? He was a sidekick. An unknown. He rode Shaq's coattails to titles. When Jordan went down, it was Shaq's turn to run the league and Bryant flourished under that train.
Well at his best and at Shaq's best, you would take Hakeem over Shaq if you're going for a title?
Mic-Nificent
I didn't eat nobody
I already said earlier in the thread I'd take Hakeem over Shaq because of how great Hakeem was defensively.
Shaq was one of the most dominant offensive players the league has ever seen, there's NO questioning that, but he wasn't a great defensive player.
With Hakeem you'd get a dominant offensive and defense player and you can keep him on the floor late in games since he was a halfway decent free throw shooter.