how did young Mike get to the basket with such ease?

[The Devil's Advocate]

how often were defenders in position to do this¿

like they just all left mj's teammates wide open¿

with the bigs parked in the paint waiting¿



mj said out his own mouth he wouldn't have had the career he did facing the zone though

*

but he did face the zone in his career

damn near 40 years old avg 22, 5, and 5 on 41% shooting.. then 20, 6 and 4 on 44%

so what you're telling us is prime jordan wouldn't be able to do what Iverson, Kyrie, Wall, PG, KD, Klay, Bron, Kobe, DeRozen, Wiggins, and about 30-40 other NBA players could do?? which is drive and score in the NBA?? All cause the zone would completely shut him down. Not like he could practice against it, scheme against it, build a team around it, etc etc... not like the other rule changes and p*ssy fouls wouldn't help him more...

now the zone was the answer the whole time, and jordan was taking empty trips to the lane 30 times a game... and nobody schemed around it until the zone came in in 2001.... nikka please

 

[010101]

but he did face the zone in his career

damn near 40 years old avg 22, 5, and 5 on 41% shooting.. then 20, 6 and 4 on 44%

so what you're telling us is prime jordan wouldn't be able to do what Iverson, Kyrie, Wall, PG, KD, Klay, Bron, Kobe, DeRozen, Wiggins, and about 30-40 other NBA players could do?? which is drive and score in the NBA?? All cause the zone would completely shut him down. Not like he could practice against it, scheme against it, build a team around it, etc etc... not like the other rule changes and p*ssy fouls wouldn't help him more...

now the zone was the answer the whole time, and jordan was taking empty trips to the lane 30 times a game... and nobody schemed around it until the zone came in in 2001.... nikka please

where did i go to those extremes¿

just saying it's easier getting to the basket with the lanes open



easy

*

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

where did i go to those extremes¿

just saying it's easier getting to the basket with the lanes open



easy

*

And who argued that. I see you though playa

 

[Bed$tuy]

MJ's game was crazy cause he was super efficient with the moves. I feel like he only ever took 2 dribbles to get a bucket

When driving baseline, its best to take only 2 dribbles. Mike and pip was very good at it. Taking more than 2 dribbles give the opponent more time to catch up with you

 

[010101]

And who argued that. I see you though playa

what¿*

 

[Bledswole]

Young mj would still be the most athletic player in the league today

Hell naw

Young Bron>>>>>>>>>Young MJ

 

[Stuntone]

Had a lot of CACs in the league back then.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

He faced single coverage without a zone. When they threw a double-team at him, that guy had to run all the way over from another player, and no one else could shade off their man to cover the new opening.

Jordan would always get the ball with just one man on him (doubling a guy without the ball was illegal), so he could attack the single coverage immediately. If they tried to throw a double-team at him, that guy took time to get there as long as spacing was good, which led to open shooters and easy buckets.

Then take a look at the guys who were guarding him...overall shorter, less athletic, and less committed to defense than most players today.

Because he was a 6’6 SG/SF 200 pound hybrid freak athlete the league wasnt ready for at that time.

Young mj would still be the most athletic player in the league today

But there are a LOT more guys who have the size and speed to at least stand a chance while defending him.

In Jordan's day, how many shooting guards over 6'4" were there? And how many were athletic and played good defense?

I mean, this is the era where Dan Majerle was on the All-Defensive team. He played hard on defense and all, but really? Dan Majerle?

Every once in a while Jordan would run into a Clyde Drexler, but that was the exception. Fat Lever, Sleepy Floyd, Ricky Pierce, Alvin Robertson, and Jeff Malone were elite shooting guards back then - they'd be considered undersized for the position today. In the playoffs MJ faced guys like (old) Jeff Hornacek, Kerry Kittles, Rex Chapman, John Starks, Voshon Lenard, Hersey Hawkins, Craig Ehlo, Terry Teagle, Paul Pressey, Dennis Johnson, Sidney Moncrief. The quick guys were too short, the tall guys were too slow or too skinny, and few of them had elite defensive chops.

I mean, in 1988, the guards playing in the All-Star Game on the East behind MJ and IT were Danny Ainge, Doc Rivers, and Maurice Cheeks. In 1989, the only two guards on the bench for the East in the All-Star game were Mark Price and Mark Jackson. You serious? It was NOT a good era for SG talent.

Put Jordan in an era with Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, PG13, Tony Allen, Marcus Smart, Klay, Iggy, Tatum, Brown, Josh Richardson, PJ Tucker, Oladipo, Danny Green, Andre Roberson, Jonathan Simmons, Robert Covington, Ben Simmons, Jrue Holiday, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Dejonte Murray...that's 20 guys right there who would blow most 1990s guards out of the water on defense. Didn't even mention guys like Josh Jackson, Andrew Wiggins, Shump, JR, KCP - even though they don't defend at the same level they still have so much more size and speed than the second-tier guards that Jordan faced.

And that's before you even take into account the zone schemes that would be used against him, and the far more mobile bigs that would be closing into the lane.

Jordan at least has to work harder in this era. There are just SO many more guys with the size and speed to actually stay in front of a 6'6" ultra-athletic guard instead of being a revolving door.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

but he did face the zone in his career

damn near 40 years old avg 22, 5, and 5 on 41% shooting.. then 20, 6 and 4 on 44%

so what you're telling us is prime jordan wouldn't be able to do what Iverson, Kyrie, Wall, PG, KD, Klay, Bron, Kobe, DeRozen, Wiggins, and about 30-40 other NBA players could do?? which is drive and score in the NBA?? All cause the zone would completely shut him down. Not like he could practice against it, scheme against it, build a team around it, etc etc... not like the other rule changes and p*ssy fouls wouldn't help him more...

now the zone was the answer the whole time, and jordan was taking empty trips to the lane 30 times a game... and nobody schemed around it until the zone came in in 2001.... nikka please

No one ran a zone schemed around stopping Jordan in 2002 or 2003.


1. Zones were in their infancy in 2002, it wasn't even until the 2010s that teams really starting developing elite zone schemes (perhaps a bit earlier with the Spurs).

2. Jordan couldn't drive to the basket like that by 2002 anyway, so he wasn't the sort of scoring threat you schemed a zone for. Teams just gave him single-coverage.

3. Jordan's scoring in 2002 and 2003 was almost entirely based on an elite fadeaway (often out of the post) that had taken him a decade in the NBA to develop. He didn't have that shot as a young player.


Zones would have been a much more effective tool against young Jordan. They certainly wouldn't have stopped him, but they would have limited him a hell of a lot more than 6'3" White guys in single coverage.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

No one ran a zone schemed around stopping Jordan in 2002 or 2003.


1. Zones were in their infancy in 2002, it wasn't even until the 2010s that teams really starting developing elite zone schemes (perhaps a bit earlier with the Spurs).

2. Jordan couldn't drive to the basket like that by 2002 anyway, so he wasn't the sort of scoring threat you schemed a zone for. Teams just gave him single-coverage.

3. Jordan's scoring in 2002 and 2003 was almost entirely based on an elite fadeaway (often out of the post) that had taken him a decade in the NBA to develop. He didn't have that shot as a young player.


Zones would have been a much more effective tool against young Jordan. They certainly wouldn't have stopped him, but they would have limited him a hell of a lot more than 6'3" White guys in single coverage.

Westbrook who is a WOAH level shooter off the dribble and decision maker averaged 32ppg on 42℅ last season , MJ would have multiple seasons over 30ppg on over 50%, he'd probably max out at 38-38ppg one season just as he did in 87.

Zones won't do shyt vs the GOAT at creating jumpers off the dribble, he was automatic from 10-15 feet as a rookie, y'all nikkas crazy smh.

 

[Elim Garak]

expose yourself as a casual breh. those two would destroy 99.9 percent of the basketball players on EARTH who ever lived. they both averaged like 20 ppg in college and in the nba against the best of the absolute best, but they're security guard status lol. what in the fukk is ya'll talking about in here?

He called a dude who is arguably the second best pg in history a strip mall security guard. He is the all time assist leader and steals not to mention his son is in the league today can't take him seriously lol.

 

[Raw Lyrics]

Had a lot of CACs in the league back then.

There's actually more CACs in the NBA now than ever before.

Now if you wanna draw distinctions between North American CACs and European CACs cool, but to me a CAC is a CAC.

 

[Cave Savage]

I hate when people try to downplay Jordan's greatness. The NBA in the 90s seemed pretty damn athletic even if some things were different, which I would argue that Jordan would have adjusted for if he were younger and was in the NBA today.

So what, nothing counts until the season where LeBron got his first ring?

 

[Cave Savage]

There's actually more CACs in the NBA now than ever before.

Now if you wanna draw distinctions between North American CACs and European CACs cool, but to me a CAC is a CAC.

Only very early in Jordan's career was the league cac heavy, and even then it just seemed like certain teams such as that aging Larry Bird celtic's dynasty. By the 90s, the overwhelming majority of the players were black.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There's actually more CACs in the NBA now than ever before.

That's so damn false I have no idea what you are smoking.

Fool, the NBA used to be ALL White when it started. Even after they started letting Black players in in the 1950s, Bill Russell said there was an understood "quota", where owners only let 2-3 Black players onto each team. In the 1960s many players stated that the quota remained, though it may have been more like 4 Black players allowed per team. After the Civil Rights Act the number of Black players began to increase a lot through the 1970s and 1980s, but the number of White players never dropped below 25% until 1993, hitting a low of 18% in 1995 when the NBA was flooded with new Black players due to expansion. That was the era in which the NBA really began opening up to foreign talent, which moderately increased the number of White players in the early 2000s, but then it began falling back down again and by 2011 the # of White players in the NBA hit an all-time low of 16%, even WITH White players from all over the world included. There was a slight increase up to 2015, but then it dropped again and right now we're damn close to the all-time low.

Now if you wanna draw distinctions between North American CACs and European CACs cool, but to me a CAC is a CAC.

That don't make no sense.

Imagine that you had a basketball league comprised of all the White people from Texas. They let some Black players play, but for various social reasons not all the Black players are able to participate, because it's Texas, you know?

Then a decade later they expand the league and allow anyone from all over the country to join. Not only do all the Black players get to participate, but there are White players entering in from all over the country. Suddenly there is so much more talent from across the country that the White players from Texas have been washed out of the league. It used to be only White Texans in the game, but now there are only 20 White Texans in the whole league because they can't compete with all the talent from across the country, not to mention that there are more talented Black players too because unlike before, now all of them participate.

And imagine some idiot said, "I knew there used to be 100 White Texans in this league and now there's only 20, but to me the talent level hasn't changed."


If the talent level hasn't changed, then why the hell can't White Americans still succeed like they used to?