how did young Mike get to the basket with such ease?
- Thread starter Devil Plisken…CMS
- Start date
So someone just put together all of Jordan's classic games where he was on fire and then called those his shooting percentages.
This is the exact same thing people do when they usually overate earlier eras (cause all the old-timer games they've seen are the ones with the best players at the biggest moment), but now we've finally turned typical Coli bias into statistical form.
you born in 2001?
seriously, you talk like you never watched mike before.
Jordan's rookie season
The plays at 10:47 and 11:00 are just mind boogling. I've never seen anyone accelerate like that from a standstill position. Dude's first step was just unreal.
Someone put out a list of MJ statistics that were straight lies, I proved they were lies, everyone else acknowledged that the stats were illegitimate...and you respond with that?you born in 2001?
seriously, you talk like you never watched mike before.
Ya'all will deflect with anything.
I didn't see MJ's rookie year, watched his career from 1987 onwards.
Someone put out a list of MJ statistics that were straight lies, I proved they were lies, everyone else acknowledged that the stats were illegitimate...and you respond with that?
Ya'all will deflect with anything.
I didn't see MJ's rookie year, watched his career from 1987 onwards.
those stats are true breh. it's not a seasonal stat.
http://ballislife.com/a-breakdown-of-michael-jordans-impressive-shooting-in-9192/
Last week, a video by Coach Nick of BBallBreakdown about Russell Westbrook not being as good of a “finisher” as you think sparked a lot of conversations about the under and overrated finishers. And since these were basketball conversations, Michael Jordan’s name had to come up. And the person who brought up the GOAT also shared a link to a very interesting message board post by ISH user PHILA about Micheal Jordan and his shooting during the 1991-92 season.
Here’s PHILA on why he chose that season and why he’s only breaking down data from 53 of the 80 games Jordan played in that season.
This was an “average” season from Jordan’s prime, certainly not an outlier for him. Actually, depending on who you ask, this might not even be one of his 3 best seasons. Regardless, the reason I chose this year is due to the game footage availability. I couldn’t find more than 25-30 regular season Bulls games from 1985-1991 or 1993. Same goes for any of the 1980’s Lakers, Celtics or Pistons games. I believe 50+ games is certainly an adequate sample size to give some idea of his impact. I also doubt there is any major highlight bias in this data, except in the raw ppg average and 3 point %. His 2 point FG% is actually deflated in this sample, as is the overall team ORtg/DRtg (though this might also underrate the bench). 1991-92 was also the season Jordan called himself a “utility” player.
Here’s the breakdown on that utlitiy player’s shooting percentages.
Regular Season (53 Games)
At Rim: 233/357 FG (65.3%)
In Paint (Overall): 300/555 FG (54.1%)
Mid-Range: 336/645 FG (52.1%)
3 Point: 21/66 FG (31.8%)
Mid-Range Shooting Stats From Chart:
10 to <16 ft: 155/342 (45.3%)
16 ft to <3-pt: 234/452 (51.8%)
No one selectively chooses a "random sample" of 53 out of 80 games. As someone already mentioned, it was obviously a non-random sample of the 53 games he could access online, which would have included every game where Jordan showed out but missed a lot of games where he didn't.
How can you say "those stats are true" when there are HUGE differences between them?
Did Jordan shoot 74% at the rim or 65%? Did he shoot 59% in the paint or 54%? Did he shoot 38% from three or 31%?
The worst is the midrange shooting...the first number is 51% and the second is 52%, but in the breakdown at the bottom from the same guy you have two numbers that average out to about 49%...which is it?
Other numbers are all wack too - like how could Jordan shoot 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange if he only shot 53% on twos for the year? How could you claim he shot 31.8% from three in 1992 when Basketball Reference has him at 27% from three for the year?
Your boy is clearly playing with the numbers something stupid.
Trust a guy who says he took a "random" 53 out of 80 games instead of just taking all 80, and then believe his nonsensical numbers brehs.
Ya'all are useless.
How can you say "those stats are true" when there are HUGE differences between them?
Did Jordan shoot 74% at the rim or 65%? Did he shoot 59% in the paint or 54%? Did he shoot 38% from three or 31%?
The worst is the midrange shooting...the first number is 51% and the second is 52%, but in the breakdown at the bottom from the same guy you have two numbers that average out to about 49%...which is it?
Other numbers are all wack too - like how could Jordan shoot 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange if he only shot 53% on twos for the year? How could you claim he shot 31.8% from three in 1992 when Basketball Reference has him at 27% from three for the year?
Your boy is clearly playing with the numbers something stupid.
Trust a guy who says he took a "random" 53 out of 80 games instead of just taking all 80, and then believe his nonsensical numbers brehs.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
i admitted this guy wasn't credible... my point was the number of attempts... jordan wasn't a "all i can do is go to the hole" type of player.... his attempts from mid and 3 was damn near equal to the paint and rimNo one selectively chooses a "random sample" of 53 out of 80 games. As someone already mentioned, it was obviously a non-random sample of the 53 games he could access online, which would have included every game where Jordan showed out but missed a lot of games where he didn't.
Ya'all are useless.
How can you say "those stats are true" when there are HUGE differences between them?
Did Jordan shoot 74% at the rim or 65%? Did he shoot 59% in the paint or 54%? Did he shoot 38% from three or 31%?
The worst is the midrange shooting...the first number is 51% and the second is 52%, but in the breakdown at the bottom from the same guy you have two numbers that average out to about 49%...which is it?
Other numbers are all wack too - like how could Jordan shoot 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange if he only shot 53% on twos for the year? How could you claim he shot 31.8% from three in 1992 when Basketball Reference has him at 27% from three for the year?
Your boy is clearly playing with the numbers something stupid.
Trust a guy who says he took a "random" 53 out of 80 games instead of just taking all 80, and then believe his nonsensical numbers brehs.
in other words... stopping MJ from getting to the rim, isn't going to stop him... as if he didn't know how to shoot for shyt.. literally half his game was midrange and beyond
Here's a nice math question for you:
If Jordan was shooting about 65% at the rim (not as good as Lebron, but still pretty good), and half of his game was midrange and beyond, then what would he have to have been shooting from midrange in order to finish at just 51% from twos in 1993?
(Answer - less than 37% from midrange)
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
the math doesn't work if you don't use all the games.... we fully agree there as you said there are two sets of numbers and thus no math could be right... which is why i am only focused on ATTEMPTS... we don't know what he would have avg cause the games were picked at random.. we don't know if these were his best or worst or middle pack games...
here's a gem tho... fg% takes in two's and three's... so you can't look at the final % and determine what came from 2s and what came from 3s unless you break it down by selection
aka.... a person shoots 50% from the field... that incorporates ALL shots... so i don't know how he got to 51% of twos in 93... cause there's no stat that shows the breakdown of 2s to 3s
Yes we do.
You seriously don't know that we have 2s and 3s broken down from 1993?
Jordan shot 911-1773 (51.4%) from two and 81-230 (35.1%) from three in 1993.
Michael Jordan Stats | Basketball-Reference.com
So again, if you think that half of Jordan's attempts came at the rim and he made 65% of those, then you can extrapolate how poor he must have still been from midrange at that stage in his career.
No one selectively chooses a "random sample" of 53 out of 80 games. As someone already mentioned, it was obviously a non-random sample of the 53 games he could access online, which would have included every game where Jordan showed out but missed a lot of games where he didn't.
Ya'all are useless.
How can you say "those stats are true" when there are HUGE differences between them?
Did Jordan shoot 74% at the rim or 65%? Did he shoot 59% in the paint or 54%? Did he shoot 38% from three or 31%?
The worst is the midrange shooting...the first number is 51% and the second is 52%, but in the breakdown at the bottom from the same guy you have two numbers that average out to about 49%...which is it?
Other numbers are all wack too - like how could Jordan shoot 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange if he only shot 53% on twos for the year? How could you claim he shot 31.8% from three in 1992 when Basketball Reference has him at 27% from three for the year?
Your boy is clearly playing with the numbers something stupid.
Trust a guy who says he took a "random" 53 out of 80 games instead of just taking all 80, and then believe his nonsensical numbers brehs.
read the whole thread breh
1991-92 Michael Jordan Shot Chart - Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops
he did mention about 3pt
and i know that nikka and he is legit. and i remember seeing the chart. and he mentioned it random and i believe him.
WHY the hell would you take a "random sample" of 55 games and not all 80 games? You can't explain that.read the whole thread breh
1991-92 Michael Jordan Shot Chart - Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops
he did mention about 3pt
and i know that nikka and he is legit. and i remember seeing the chart. and he mentioned it random and i believe him.
The kid doesn't know what a random sample is. He took the games available on video, which is NOT random, it's going to be biased towards the games where MJ showed out because those get posted.
He admits that the ppg average is off (but doesn't admit by how much), but he doesn't understand what that proves about his sample.
It's obvious that the 3pt average is off, cause in reality Jordan only shot 27% from three that year, but he doesn't understand what that proves about his sample.
And you still need to explain to me - HOW did Jordan shoot only 53% from two in 1992 if he was supposedly shooting 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange???
It just doesn't work. Those stats are hogwash, taken from a biased sample and probably categorized by a biased party too.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
No one selectively chooses a "random sample" of 53 out of 80 games. As someone already mentioned, it was obviously a non-random sample of the 53 games he could access online, which would have included every game where Jordan showed out but missed a lot of games where he didn't.
Ya'all are useless.
How can you say "those stats are true" when there are HUGE differences between them?
Did Jordan shoot 74% at the rim or 65%? Did he shoot 59% in the paint or 54%? Did he shoot 38% from three or 31%?
The worst is the midrange shooting...the first number is 51% and the second is 52%, but in the breakdown at the bottom from the same guy you have two numbers that average out to about 49%...which is it?
Other numbers are all wack too - like how could Jordan shoot 65% at the rim and 52% from midrange if he only shot 53% on twos for the year? How could you claim he shot 31.8% from three in 1992 when Basketball Reference has him at 27% from three for the year?
Your boy is clearly playing with the numbers something stupid.
Trust a guy who says he took a "random" 53 out of 80 games instead of just taking all 80, and then believe his nonsensical numbers brehs.
Long twos and non restricted area 2s are the numbers that’s missing which could bring it down significantly as those are the two most inefficient shots
The guy claimed that long 2s are included in his "midrange" numbers, so long twos can't be the excuse.
For non-restricted area 2s to single-handedly be responsible for bringing it down, MJ would have had to shoot 32-33% from that range. That's horrific.
So he'd be claiming that MJ is:
65% from 0-3 feet on 357 shots
33% from 3-10 feet on 198 shots
52% from 10-23 feet on 645 shots
Those numbers are silly as hell. No one's shooting varies that much - he'd simultaneously be the worst guy in the league from 3-10 but the best guy in the league from 10-23.
It would also suggest that MJ wasn't nearly as good at getting to the rim as thought, if he's only getting to the rim about 25% of the time (even including fast breaks!) and even being forced to take a horrible low-percentage shot in the paint a good 17% of the time. But claiming that 60% of Jordan's twos were outside of 10 feet way back in 1993....that feels unlikely.
I don't think those numbers could possibly be real. He's gaming the results, posting great-looking numbers for "rim" and "midrange" because he knows those are the sexy distances that people want, but shuffling all the misses into the "non-restricted area 2s" category and then not posting those results, because he doesn't think anyone will check his math.
It doesn't even have to be overt...it could just be that anytime MJ missed a shortish midrange shot, he "felt" like it was really a 10-foot shot and shouldn't count against his midrange average, but when he made a longish restricted-area shot he would "feel" that it was a midrange shot. When you have a single, heavily-biased person doing all your data collection, ridiculous bias like that works its way in.
