Zo Williams Show with both Tariq Nasheed & Tommy Sotomayor
- Thread starter KingDanz
- Start date
who's SWP?i'm like 1hr 30m into the podcast. i like all these guys but they needed SWP to come through and crush the buildings
sgt willie pete, a ex-youtuber who basically started this online gender beef. he talked about stuff guys like tariq, zo, tommy sotomayor are discussing in like 2006. and frankly, tariq and sotomayor lowkey bite his material and regurgitate it to their audience w/o giving credit.
here's some of his vids:
http://generation-x.net/viewVideo.php?video_id=9412&title=KOOLA_BOOF_AND_HER_MADNESS
generation-x.net/viewVideo.php?video_id=9399&title=RIGGING_THE_GAME
http://generation-x.net/viewVideo.php?video_id=9352&title=MATRIARCHAL_SEMANTICS
guy has like 1,000 videos uploaded to that site. but he's broken down the shyt better than any other black voice, and has dismantled most arguments from black feminist, white supremacist, and the overly religious on these blogtalk radio shows.
Mr. Somebody
Friend Of A Friend
Did you just discover this man?
no, he asked me who SWP was and i told him
PartyHeart
All Star
Then go ahead and post this crushing answer. Because I already responded to your question about anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence from my personal life, even though this isn't an issue that can be reduced to anecdotes, and you are clearly pretending to not have seen it so as to continue avoid answering my question. Very similar to the way y'all pretend Black male sexism doesn't exist so you can continue to not address it and instead attack Black women for frivolous things like weave.
It would need to be explained to me because its a lie. Unless you are denying the existence of sexism (and I'm sure this debate will soon be there once I feel the need to post statistical evidence that Black women are the overwhelming victims of sexism), you don't have a leg to stand on.
I know you didn't address this part of your post to me, and I don't necessarily put my womanhood before my Blackness (or vice versa) as she does, but who are you to act as if this is a bad or unvalid position? Do you put your Blackness before your manhood? If you say you do, I think I've caught you in yet another lie. The truth of the matter is, it is actually makes sense for her to feel that way. If she in her daily life interacts mostly with other Black people, you would be lying your behind off to say that those people simply view her as Black and don't see her as female.
I would venture to say that most Black feminists who identify as female before Black probably are immersed in Black surroundings more than most Black women, so they feel the gender inequality 1000x more often than the racial one. And that's a valid viewpoint for her experience.
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PartyHeart
All Star
Ability to choose between being Black and being a female obviously.
Which society is this? Again, y'all are attempting to deny the existence of sexism and its effects is only slightly more laughable than your attempts to tell the people who experience it while you don't, the way in which they should respond to it.
Which society doesn't care? The same society in which Black women earn less than all other races per hour including Black men, our wealth is lower than any other group, our presence in politics and in high level positions is lower than Black men's despite having more degrees, our issues are ignored by our own community (who rallied and rioted for LaTasha?), and the list goes on. No matter how much you try to dismiss and deny the existence of race hate and gender hate directed towards Black women, it will never work because the evidence is far to numerous to support the opposite. You really want it to be that Black women aren't still viewed as women and treated as such (second class citizens), but its not the case. No amount of gaslighting and dismissing by you is ever going to change that.
In your attempts to dismiss sexism against Black women, you have even fed into my point. Why are the disappearances of Black women not put at the forefront of Black community issues? Why do issues of Black on Black crime never include the extraordinary rates of Black male on Black female domestic violence? Why are there numerous attempts by Black men to silence these facts even being brought up?
lol I am absolutely not ignoring it I'm glad you brought it up. Why aren't Black men included in these welfare queen stereotypes? Since race is the only thing that matters and the only war that Black women should be worried about (according to you, a man who has never had to walk a day in the shoes of a Black woman)?
This was a post brim full of denial and diversionary tactics and I think you know it. You mentioned a couple of issues that effect Black women exclusively and are never brought up or addressed as Black community issues, only to go on and act like Black is just Black and there is nothing gendered about it. Child please.
PartyHeart
All Star
lol We can't agree because you didn't even come close to setting the scales to the same level. Since when is just being a "somewhat decent mother" for Black women = "Barack Obama" for Black men?
A black man with all those issues can become a somewhat decent father at 35 just as a Black woman can. No, society is not more forgiving to us as it is to Black men, in fact its harsher because we are women and women are expected to know/do better while simultaneously being told we are less valuable and less capable than the group we are supposed to know and do better than. The only time in which this is probably not the case is in cases with a criminal record. I can't imagine the hard time many brothas have finding a job if they choose a poor, thug lifestyle early on, get a criminal record, and then try to better themselves.
Anyway, I'm curious marcuz, even though I'm sure I'll regret asking. But how do you believe black women really feel and won't admit??
But I don't believe it can just be about choosing on the woman's part. Whether you want to accept it or not, men choose to have sex too.
You can say that women are more responsible because they carry the child, but at the end of the day, a man is responsible for his seed too. The fact that so many Black men act as if its so optional really disgusts me because its what causes the lack of fatherhood in the Black community. If even the non-bum "educated" Black men view Black fatherhood as something a guy can choose to not be apart of or choose to walk away from, then you get the results you get today. You are just giving them the green light to abandon. Other races don't even present fathers leaving their child as an option, no matter how he feels about the mother.
I agree with the raw sex part and the 4 month shot, but these women who are getting pregnant are often not in positions to even get birth control easily, let alone a shot that most insurances don't even cover. There are however, 0 economic, education, and access barriers to Black men getting and wearing condoms, 0. So you can say there are 100 birth control methods for women if you want. Until they are all as easily accessible with no education required as condoms, men have an even easier outlet to preventing pregnancy.
but back to black men, i once had a debate on youtube with a black feminist. i ended it with something along the lines of "i guess black women really do believe the white mans ice is colder", she responded with " the black man has no ice". at first i was like
because she was absolutely correct. on an individual level, some black men are making moves, but as a collective, not so much. we have literally no concept of community building and our roles and responsibilities as men. we're quicker to join other mens patriarchies as opposed to building up our own. we shyt on black women for attitudes, weave, weight, etc, but we have not provided black women the same medium as other races of men. black women are literally on their own out here. one of the only races of women that can go their entire lives without coming across a man that loves them unconditionally like a father should.
i understand black men are the reason black women are the way that they are. but black women ego stroked black men for so many generations that we max out at p*ssy. fukk owning a business, fukk networking with other black men, fukk passing on a legacy to black children through a black womb.
so all these white men chasing, i fully understand it. black women see this shyt like a sinking ship they want off of and other races are the life raft.
Look, Black women do not worship at the alter of white men. Of all races we are the least interested. Maybe being in LA has fooled you (and its not just Black women chasing everything with white skin in LA) but by and large Black women are not trying to get with other races. We want Black men, we just want Black men to do right. That does not requiring building your own patriarchy (we don't want that!), it requires being there for your children, understanding our plight as we do yours, and not abusing Black women or speaking out against it when you see it. If Black women were interested in other races I swear to you, despite what BW haters say about us not being desired by any race, our IR numbers would exceed BM's. IF that were the case. But its not. So all this about bed wench this and that, its inaccurate. If we wanted to leave, we would have.
There are some Black women who are tired of hoping for a sympathetic ear from Black men and moved on, there are some Black women like Black men, who found love in other races and married out, but most Black women are still looking, searching, hoping for a Black king.
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PartyHeart
All Star
And I'm not writing anymore long posts after those, I don't care how much y'all type back 
THELASTALKAHOLIK
Pro
Now Sgt Willie Pete is the genuine article. I used to listen to him and this other kat Ten Speaks all the time. Sgt Willie Pete breaks it down like no other. Marcuz I think you might change some nikkas lives bringing this mans voice to this forum.
SouthernBelle
#Feyonce
What the HELL does her post have to do with ANYTHING I said? You don't know shyt about how I feel about my blackness. You don't know I live my everyday life. I said how I feel. You are an anonymous poster on a message board. I have not reason to lie. Overall, you sound stupid as hell trying to tell someone else how they should feel about their identity. I can be both black and a woman. In fact, I am black AND I am a woman (no matter how much you try to deny me that right). YOU are delusional.
This little tidbit may allude you, but no one has the the choice of what situation they are born into, their gender, or their color. This isn't exclusive to you - as hard as that may be for you to believe, given that you are clearly trapped in your bubble and only interested in playing a victim solely because of what you have between your legs. What this had to do with anything is beyond me, but given your recent arguments and stance, I assume that if you had the choice the only thing you'd wish to change would be your skin color. At least then, your feminism first, second, and third stance would make sense.
The society that is ran and governed by the very people you refuse to point the finger at. The society that controls the court system and the quality of your children's education. White society, the very society that has successfully deluded you and individuals such as yourself into honestly believing that they aren't your enemy. No, the ones responsible for your plight ( because as we know, everything is about YOU) has been the black male. Nevermind that the black male bolsters a higher rate of incarceration amongst men of different racial groups and shares the habit of their missing persons case going unsolved and uninvestigated. Meanwhile, every other minority and race in this country outside of Hispanics receive better standards of education, housing, and treatment in the judicial system. But these unjust practices happen not because of your skin, but more so because you're a woman.
Right on.
Equal wages for women across the board isn't your concern. Your concern which you made no qualms about pointing out is that black men make more than black women. Every other ethnicity in this country making more than black women despite less experience in the same field is ultimately irrelevant to you, so don't attempt to push that argument into the discussion under the guise that that is what matters. Oddly enough, unfair wages aren't exclusive to your gender. That being said, would black men making less than black women sate you? Rhetorical question. We both know the answer.
I have thoroughly acknowledged race hate, and anyone with eyes and an ounce of reading comprehension will tell you the same (great job at slipping that tidbit in, especially when the sole basis of your arguments have thus far centered around you being discriminated against because you're simply a woman) You are the only one playing oblivious and seem to insist that the reason you're treated as a second class citizen in multiple corners of the world is due more with the fact that you bleed monthly and not the color of your skin. I'm sure Asian and white women would share your sympathy - if they could relate.
Why can't they relate?
You are black first and foremost, whether you like it, or not, and that is how the world will always see you. You're an advocate of a movement that will currently, never accept you. Ever. Your entire race holds no power; this is not exclusive to your gender. Your entire race is incarcerated more than any other with harsher penalties. This is not exclusive to your gender. Your entire race is vehemently discriminated against globally. This is not exclusive to your gender. How exactly can you fight for women's rights when you're even close to being up held in the same light as other women in this country? Do you not grasp the fact that the people with the power detest and hate you? It's not because you're a woman. Instead, you are engaged in a pissing match. A pissing match against black men when both of you are considered scum of society. How can you fight a war against someone who has nothing?
Black female disappearances have a stage. More importantly, black missing persons cases have a stage and entire organization dedicated to them. I cited the black women disappearances to further hammer home the fact that before you fight for "feminism" and the destruction of "black male privilege" you should concern yourself with every other RACE of women getting more national coverage and attention than you. Coincidentally, they also get more than black men. You changed my words to include "black community" when I stated "national attention." Now, perhaps you believe that black women disappearing should strictly be a black only concern, but when a white woman or child is missing, it becomes a national concern. Meanwhile, the FBI won't even investigate a woman of color going missing. "She probably just ran away. They do that often." But that's because you're a woman and not due to the fact that you're of color. Right?
Unfortunately, that plight and dilemma is not exclusive to your gender.
Truthfully, if black women could receive the same benefits as white women, including salaries and treatment in the justice system as their white counterparts, you would ultimately be satisfied. If left up to you and individuals such as yourself, African Americans would still be in chains today. Your movement - if you can call it such - doesn't care about about progress...only progress of self. You claim to know such great black men in reality, but you don't, because if you did, you wouldn't have a vetted interest in their annihilation.
Why aren't black women aren't considered gun toting thugs and aren't pulled over nearly as frequently as their male counterparts. Why do women clinch their purses and lock their doors when a black male is within fifteen feet? You're concerned with arguing who has been dealt the shyttier hand in society.
I'm not.
Black men and women are both untamed savages in the minds of millions of Americans, yet your focus is on stereotypes, not why millions of people by into those stereotypes and who they are perpetuated by. A black man need not walk in the shoes of a woman to know that she's discriminated against if she shares the same skin color. Discrimination isn't exclusive to your gender, and I assure you that black male slaves weren't the only ones who were hung by their throats from oak trees. Your race is oppressed, no matter how much you desire to distance yourself from that fact, and until you tackle that issue, you're fighting a battle against an invisible opponent.
There was no diversion, only truth. A hard truth that unfortunately may not hit you until you experience first hand how little your true oppressors care about you or your counter-productive movement. You are terribly misguided. I did not only address black female issues, sweetheart, I compared and contrasted. You desire to practice feminism yet omit that you aren't even considered a woman in this country. Women of every nationality in this country are treated better than you. Women of every nationality in this country experience better health care than you. Women of every nationality sans Hispanics(and that's only on average, in their case) are provided better education and learning institutions than you. You want to know something crazy?
This is not exclusive to your gender.
You will destroy the black community. Along with the absentee fathers, drug pushers, and unfit mothers of three content with section 8 housing and more interested in free before 9 at Primetime than their children's education. Your mindset is a divisive one, with one purpose. I call your idea of femininsm a movement, but the harsh reality is that you don't preach nor practice this is reality, and for that, I'm glad - but you aren't progressive towards anything and under your current ideals in this current society, you never will be. In this world, black men aren't your enemy, they are actually the only ally you have. A black woman worth her salt - perhaps with a son and daughter knows this. She's interested in both of them existing and thriving in a world that hates them because they were born black, not because one was born a man and the other a woman. She's interested in both of them prospering and excelling in life without worrying about whether or not her little boy will get gunned down for being in a neighborhood that's a little too upscale for someone who looks like him, or her little girl getting decades in prison for firing a warning shot in the air to ward off an abuser.
I wonder why you're not?
SouthernBelle
#Feyonce
I'm telling you that this isn't about you. I don't give a fukk about you or your personal experiences
Again, nobody gives a fukk about your personal experiences. Nobody has told you personally what you do and don't experience as a socalled woman. Who here knows you? Nobody aimed anything that they've said at you personally. People were speaking in general regarding black women and you've taken it upon yourself to throw your 2 cents in. If you're not here to vouch for black feminism and you're just posting to see your words on the screen then say no more. You're full of shyt in my opinion though. If you're not a black feminist you're clearly a sympathizer. You just don't have the courage are smarts to defend it.
Well then STOP fukking quoting. YOU quoted a post where I was directly talking about my personal experience. I talk about what I want to talk about; NOT what YOU want me to talk about. I post what I want, where I want, when I want, about what I want and your dumbass is going to keep quoting it.
Also I clearly quoted Marcuz on page 4 where is he said "gender isn't the reason for the inequality you receive" and he repeated again "gender isn't the reason for the inequalities black women receive". So again, I addressed a poster who did make that claim that I don't face gender inequality.
Finally, I'm smarter than you so that's really all that matters here.
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PartyHeart
All Star
Umm what. This part of your post seemed useless as I never denied that people can control what situation they are born into. If anything, you did, by trying to tease the other female poster about her identifying as a female before a Black person. My stance has and always will be that I am a Black woman period. I can't separate the two to claim one before the other and never want to.
You can lie to yourself but not me. Black feminists have never shyed away from pointing out white racism, myself included. You just get upset when we point out how Black men contribute to patriarchy, in hopes that they can one day be the ultimate beneficiaries of it like white men.
Again you lie to yourself. The only reason I have made it a point to mention Black men is because you continuously try to pretend my gender does not put me at a lower status and that Black is Black. You want Black man and Black woman to be in one barrel, never having to address the inequality that Black women face at the hands of Black men every day. It is much easier for you to try to turn the light back onto white supremacy instead of chastising your brothers for contributing to the ism that Black women face.
Nope. Black men not pretending as if a gender bias doesn't exist even within the Black community, with Black men as the perpetrators and Black women as the victims, would.
This doesn't even make sense. Are you saying that Asian and white women would deny sexism too? If so....
Also, your condescending ways to describe my womanhood and women in general don't phase me, so you may as well quit the "bleed once a month/you have a vagina" rhetoric.
So the Black Womanist movement doesn't accept me? Oh ok lol.
Correct. And with all this said none of this changes the fact that even if we achieved racial equality tomorrow, you'd be fine as a Black man and I'd still have to struggle as a Black woman. That is, only if I was foolish enough to follow you and say my womanhood doesn't matter and only my race does.
Actually, that is a part of the reason they do. Again, you are trying to define my experience and the experience of all Black women and you never will. I hope you find a way to deal.
where? Certainly not in the Black community, and certainly not in the eyes of many Black men like yourself if a Black man is thought to be the suspect in the disappearance. Look how many black men rallied around an admitted abuser of women and took his word as gospel INSTEAD of a Black woman who was given 20 years for a warning shot. I'm still waiting on a rally for her led by Black men too, the way Trayvon's was by Black women.This is you still living in the fairytale land where I can be Black and not female at the same time and giving me suggestions on what I "should do" based on those false assumptions. I'm good. I will continue to fight for Black women's equality outside the race and Black women's equality outside AND within it, even as Black men like yourself are content to continue acting as if its not a real cause to be concerned with just because sexism doesn't effect you personally.
Many of the issues in fact are very exclusive to gender, and many are carried out within the race even moreso than outside of it. Keep putting your hands over your ears and acting like its not there though.
Yeah...no. I want everybody to have the same opportunity and privilege as white men. Its you who has an issue with this equality, which is why you want to silence a movement that attempts to make it so the ENTIRE BLACK RACE, NOT JUST BLACK MEN, gets that.
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