YOUR Top 10 Singles Of 1999

[JustCKing]

You left off two multiplatinum albums from 99.
Willenium and Born Again.
Both double plat.
Also there were many double albums in 97 and only one in 99.
So it’s closer than you think.
I acknowledge your point, but I don’t see how you can extrapolate from that that sales across the board wouldn’t be expected to be higher for hip hop artists in 99.
ICP and Cypress also went platinum in 99. (ICP did in 97 as well).
Here’s your list again for ease of reference.

I did forget Willenium and Born Again. Even with those added and cutting the certifications for the double albums in half, that's still nearly double the multi-platinum albums of 1999.

The reason I can extrapolate that is because in 1999, the artists who sold in 1997 sold considerably less in 1999. Missy was one of the few who still remained steady. Jay is the only one who was selling more in 1999 than 1997. I forgot Vol. 1.

This is how I don't see how Missy is a flop when Puff, Mase, Biggie (can't use the posthumous excuse because LAD dropped around the time he died), Will, and others weren't even seeing half of what they did in 1997.

 

[mobbinfms]

did forget Willenium and Born Again. Even with those added and cutting the certifications for the double albums in half, that's still nearly double the multi-platinum albums of 1999.

I’ve got it at 8 to 10 counting double albums. 8 to 9 not counting double albums.

 

[JustCKing]

I’ve got it at 8 to 10 counting double certifications. 8 to 9 not counting double certifications.

Yeah, I forgot to add Biggie and Will from 1999, but its

1.Born Again- 2X platinum
2. Willennium- 2X platinum
3. Ruff Ryders First Lady- 2X platinum
4. SSLP- 5X platinum
5. Vol. 3- 4X platinum
6. And Then There Was X- 5X platinum
7. 2001- 7X Platinum
8. Nas- I Am- 2X Platinum

VS

1. Life After Death- Diamond
2. Wu Tang Forever- 4X Platinum
3. Art of War- 4X platinum
4. No Way Out- 7X Platinum
5. Ghetto D- 3X Platinum
6. Harlem World- 4X Platinum
7. R U Still Down- 4X Platinum
8. Carnival- 2X Platinum
9. TRU 2 Da Game- 2X Platinum
10. Big Willie Style- 9X Platinum

Why wouldn't double certifications count

 

[mobbinfms]

Yeah, I forgot to add Biggie and Will from 1999, but its

1.Born Again- 2X platinum
2. Willennium- 2X platinum
3. Ruff Ryders First Lady- 2X platinum
4. SSLP- 5X platinum
5. Vol. 3- 4X platinum
6. And Then There Was X- 5X platinum
7. 2001- 7X Platinum
8. Nas- I Am- 2X Platinum

VS

1. Life After Death- Diamond
2. Wu Tang Forever- 4X Platinum
3. Art of War- 4X platinum
4. No Way Out- 7X Platinum
5. Ghetto D- 3X Platinum
6. Harlem World- 4X Platinum
7. R U Still Down- 4X Platinum
8. Carnival- 2X Platinum
9. TRU 2 Da Game- 2X Platinum
10. Big Willie Style- 9X Platinum

Why wouldn't double certifications count

My bad. I meant double albums, not certifications. I edited my post to correct it.

 

[mobbinfms]

The reason I can extrapolate that is because in 1999, the artists who sold in 1997 sold considerably less in 1999. Missy was one of the few who still remained steady. Jay is the only one who was selling more in 1999 than 1997. I forgot Vol. 1.

Looking at that list it’s crazy how quickly hip hop changed. In 97 it was all about Bad Boy and the Jiggy sound. No Limit in the South. Bone was still at the top of their game. Wu was at their commercial peak.

Fast forward to 99 and Swizz and X had changed everything in New York. That Jiggy shyt was over. No Limit was on its last legs (btw you left off Wayne’s platinum plaque).

Jay changed with the times and flourished.
Nas changed in a way truer to his core sound and maintained.
Mobb updated their core sound and flourished. The Roots flourished by sticking to their guns (with some help from Erykah Badu). Gangstarr saw their first plaque the year prior sticking to their guns.
I’m going beyond just 97-99 here and just waxing poetic.

Getting back to the main issue. The reason I expected Missy to sell more in 99 then 97 is because her sound wasn’t played out. Timbo was still making hits in 99. That sound was still fresh. Nothing had changed about Missy, as far as I could tell.

The primary reason I think she didn’t sell more (both overall and first week) is because her first single underperformed. If she had a monster first single she easily would have done 200k plus first week.

 

[mobbinfms]

I did forget Willenium and Born Again. Even with those added and cutting the certifications for the double albums in half, that's still nearly double the multi-platinum albums of 1999.

The reason I can extrapolate that is because in 1999, the artists who sold in 1997 sold considerably less in 1999. Missy was one of the few who still remained steady. Jay is the only one who was selling more in 1999 than 1997. I forgot Vol. 1.

This is how I don't see how Missy is a flop when Puff, Mase, Biggie (can't use the posthumous excuse because LAD dropped around the time he died), Will, and others weren't even seeing half of what they did in 1997.

You really can’t compare LAD to Born Again.
LAD was a finished album that dropped the same month Biggie died.
Born Again had no direct input from Biggie and most of it was cobbled together.

 

[mobbinfms]

And you're making excuses.

What excuses? I don’t understand.

 

[mobbinfms]

Overall sales were higher that has no bearing on what an individual artist was doing in 1999 because there other factors to consider. Not everybody was going platinum in 1999. It was just a higher number of albums going platinum. Look back at the list from 1997. Look at the number of multi-platinum albums from 1997 vs the number of multi platinum albums from 1999.

You are correct that there are other factors to consider. Of course. I discussed many of them one or two posts above.
The thing is, none of those factors apply to Missy. 99 should have been a bigger year for her.
Do you think there was anything holding her back in 99?

 

[mobbinfms]

Breh, do you not get it. Sales don't work like that. The article flat out says, on a normal week, Missy's numbers would have gotten her a Top 5 debut. Article even calls the numbers respectable. And yes, this article holds more weight than you or I. Why? They do this for a living.

Britney Spears sold 121K in its first week, which scored her a #1 on the charts. Let that sink in for a moment. She went on to sell 10 million copies in total after 47 weeks on the charts. And you're comparing her to Missy Elliott. Now look at Britney's first week. 121K was enough to get her a #1. This was with a single that went #1 the same time the album went #1.

The article said during normal times, not a normal week. I interpret that to mean that things had changed broadly in 99. Not just that one specific week.

They also described her sales as “respectable, if unspectacular”. That is a professional and diplomatic way of sayinf her sales were disappointing. Again, that’s my interpretation. I would agree with you completely were it not for the “if unspectacular” part.

My assumption is that Britney’s first week sales were an aberration for 99. I bet if you were somehow able to run the numbers for each week that that amount would get you a #1 fewer than 10% of the time.
Either way, do you disagree that the vast majority of the time artists sell the most on their first week? For the second time, I’m not expecting Missy to outsell Britney all year, but I do expect Missy to outsell a six month old Britney album on her first week.

 

[mobbinfms]

Breh, chart positions don't determine a flop and if you weren't aware of the specific numbers, you shouldn't even been debating this to begin with.

I never said chart positions are the sole factor as to whether an album flops. It’s a piece of evidence to consider.

 

[mobbinfms]

The whole point of this argument was that in real time, no one considered Da Real World a flop. In real time, I'm willing to bet you ain't even care what a Missy album sold. And if you did, considering you've pretty much said as much, you wanted her to flop, so you'd consider anything that wasn't astronomically huge a flop because that's what haters do.

I did follow the billboard charts in real time starting around 96. As I’ve stated before, her album did feel like a flop in real time for the reasons stated already.

 

[JustCKing]

The article said during normal times, not a normal week. I interpret that to mean that things had changed broadly in 99. Not just that one specific week.

They also described her sales as “respectable, if unspectacular”. That is a professional and diplomatic way of sayinf her sales were disappointing. Again, that’s my interpretation. I would agree with you completely were it not for the “if unspectacular” part.

My assumption is that Britney’s first week sales were an aberration for 99. I bet if you were somehow able to run the numbers for each week that that amount would get you a #1 fewer than 10% of the time.
Either way, do you disagree that the vast majority of the time artists sell the most on their first week? For the second time, I’m not expecting Missy to outsell Britney all year, but I do expect Missy to outsell a six month old Britney album on her first week.

Normal times refers to more to the time Missy's album dropped. They pointed out the Top 3 entries selling more than a combined 1.1 million records. That wasn't normal even for 1999.

Respectable isn't a diplomatic way to express disappointment. The highest selling album of that week sold 650K (spectacular numbers) by comparison, her numbers were respectable.

That wasn't an aberration for 1999. 134K was enough to get DMX a #1 in his third week of sales. Carlos Santana's Supernatural (one of the biggest albums of that year) peaked at #1 selling 169K after 4 months of release. It spent 2 more weeks at #1 selling less than 200K.

It's common to have the first week be the highest sales week. It's also common to sell steadily after the fact.

You expecting Missy to outsell Britney Spears regardless of what week is neither here or there.

 

[JustCKing]

I never said chart positions are the sole factor as to whether an album flops. It’s a piece of evidence to consider.

Its bot a piece of evidence because a chart position doesn't really tell you anything other than how albums ranked. Without knowing the sales of each individual, you can't draw any conclusions from a chart position. For example, one could look at a chart and see a Limp Bizkit album at number one and not know that album sold 650K and see a Britney Spears album at #1 and not know it sold 121K.

 

[JustCKing]

You are correct that there are other factors to consider. Of course. I discussed many of them one or two posts above.
The thing is, none of those factors apply to Missy. 99 should have been a bigger year for her.
Do you think there was anything holding her back in 99?

Those factors do apply to Missy. Everybody that dropped in 1999 who also dropped in 1997 with Missy all sold considerably less in 1999. Missy was the only artist outside of Jay Z that didn't do worse. She was selling nearly the same amount of records. You had:

Puff going from 7X platinum in 1997 to platinum in 1999

Mase went from 4X platinum in 1997 to gold in 1999

TRU went from 2X platinum in 1997 to gold in 1999

Will Smith went from 9X platinum in 1997 to 2X platinum in 1999

Master P had a triple platinum album in 1997 and a gold album in 1999.

Juvenile had an album that 4X platinum that dropped in 1998, but by 1999 only went platinum with G Code

^^^ those are massive flops. Missy Elliott went from 1.2 million records to 1.068 million. That's less than 1/10 of a change vs. those other artists doing less than 1/2 of what they were doing.

 

[Wacky D]

Breh, no proof has been given. It is his "criteria", which doesn't mean much when the poster who created the criteria is under the impression that debut albums can't flop.

If anything is being ruined here it is your agenda against that whole camp. Again, this whole thing started because you couldn't accept Missy being mentioned. What's worse is that you're claiming she flopped, but she's appeared in every list on your 1999 threads.

pretty much everybody appeared at least once in every list. so whats your point?? youre trying too hard.

and naw, its not "his" criteria. its the general criteria PERIOD. youre trying to downplay what he was saying by chalking it up to being just "his" criteria.

I don't have any agenda. I don't hold my tongue when speaking on any artists. you just get hurt when some of your favorites wind up on the short-end of the stick.