"Why Kevin Durant is the Best Scorer Ever" -- By Any Means Basketball

[MoneyTron]

Except that LeBron almost always coasts against the bad teams. Other than that one year when he was dueling with D-Rose, every one of his GOAT scoring performances is against a team that was actually beating them. If it wasn't for the bad teams that he coasts against his stats would be that much better.





MJ's average made FG for most of his career was almost certainly less than Bron's. Until the mid-90s you had MJ driving for a huge % of his buckets and the jumpers he did hit were generally close, most often in that 12-16 foot range. But NO ONE knocked Jordan for not having a long "average made FG".

Same with Wilt, or Kareem, or Shaq. Being a dominant scorer doesn't mean that you made all your baskets from 20 feet.

When you discount the fact that LeBron gets 30-40% of his shots inside, you're ignoring his ability to drive and get to the hole, his bball IQ that knows how to manipulate the defense to get there, his game management that picks the right play for the right spots, and his discernment to GET those good shots instead of putting up bricks.

If you want to talk about the best shooter in the NBA that's a different thread. This is about the best scorer. And scorer inside is effective. Everyone scores inside as much as they can.

I’m not ignoring anything. Those are great skills to have and are amplified by the fact that Bron is 6’8” 270lb with a bionic leg. But I wouldn’t say that others didn’t display those skills as well.

And please, let’s not compare him to MJ. While MJ did shoot the large majority of his shots from midrange in, it was off of a multitude of actions combined with a skillset and moves LeBron couldn’t complete in his wildest dreams.

Again, I don’t make the definitions. It’s implied that “scorer” means a combination of skill plus statistical excellence and Bron, while high on the list, is not at the very top.

 

[Teko]

I’m not ignoring anything. Those are great skills to have and are amplified by the fact that Bron is 6’8” 270lb with a bionic leg. But I wouldn’t say that others didn’t display those skills as well.

And please, let’s not compare him to MJ. While MJ did shoot the large majority of his shots from midrange in, it was off of a multitude of actions combined with a skillset and moves LeBron couldn’t complete in his wildest dreams.

Again, I don’t make the definitions. It’s implied that “scorer” means a combination of skill plus statistical excellence and Bron, while high on the list, is not at the very top.

Scorer is a point maker. Thats it. It doesnt mean anything else. Why are buttholes stupid? They are buttholes

 

[BigTyme Records]

Knew this thread would be about LeBron


KD vs Bron is a toss up maybe KD

Bron , KD, MJ >> Kobe as a scorer

MJ >> Bron as a scorer

 

[MoneyTron]

Scorer is a point maker. Thats it. It doesnt mean anything else. Why are buttholes stupid? They are buttholes

No, that’s not it. That’s why this thread exists and why the article said KD is the GOAT scorer.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I’m not ignoring anything. Those are great skills to have and are amplified by the fact that Bron is 6’8” 270lb with a bionic leg. But I wouldn’t say that others didn’t display those skills as well.

And please, let’s not compare him to MJ. While MJ did shoot the large majority of his shots from midrange in, it was off of a multitude of actions combined with a skillset and moves LeBron couldn’t complete in his wildest dreams.

Again, I don’t make the definitions. It’s implied that “scorer” means a combination of skill plus statistical excellence and Bron, while high on the list, is not at the very top.

And I'm just going to disagree. If LeBron was stat-padding in the easy series or something like that, then the stats could be devalued.

But he literally has the best Game 7 scoring numbers in NBA history. The best elimination game scoring numbers in NBA history. The most buzzer-beaters in NBA history. More 40-point playoff games than Kobe, Durant, and Melo combined and damn near every one of those games in a must-win situation.

And you're talking like he does the same thing all the time which is bullshyt. If you watch the 48-point game against Detroit (2007), then the 45-point game against Boston (2012), then the 37-point game against San Antonio (2013), then the 51-point game against the Warriors (2018), it's almost like watching four different players. He's scoring in completely different ways in each one of those games. He drives effectively in both directions, hits threes off the dribble, catch-and-shoot, and stepback, has a killer midrange fadaway, developed a top-tier post game since about 2012, and is one of the best finishers in NBA history. In different games he takes what the defense gives him and he's very, very good at exploiting whatever their weaknesses are. Since Dallas 2011 no one has come close to containing him offensively, the best hope is to keep him to about 30-35 and hope the team support and defense isn't strong enough to make that count. And whenever the game really counts, which the chips are down, he seems to always be able to reach in for 40+. No one else other than MJ was like that so consistently. Low-key Hakeem might have been the closest I've seen and he's still not touching Bron in consistency.

You can't be the greatest performer in the toughest moments and not be in the top tier. I don't care if other guys look prettier, if you consistently get contained in the biggest games whenever series are actually competitive, then something is wrong.

 

[Hacksaw Jim Thuggin]

He is and it's not close

He's even a better post player than bron

Define better?
You mean prettier. More moves?

Because if I'm not mistaken their averages are close

To me it doesn't matter how pretty it is. The object of the game is putting the ball in the basket.

 

[Gravity]

No, that’s not it. That’s why this thread exists and why the article said KD is the GOAT scorer.

The article is an opinion just as valid as the posts in this thread.

You want to make "scoring more than just about putting the ball in the hole so that you can apply your biased brand of bullshyt. "Skill" is based on personal opinion/preference with you cats which is why y'all are always harping on it. There is no huge gap in skill in reference to lebron and KD's scoring ability. KD's game is more finesse and "prettier" but that doesn't automatically equate to better or more skillful.

 

[10bandz]

Knew this thread would be about LeBron


KD vs Bron is a toss up maybe KD

Bron , KD, MJ >> Kobe as a scorer

MJ >> Bron as a scorer

Except nobody who actually played or coached against those guys say this. Y'all are literally fukking retarded.

 

[NoHalfWay]

But the Celtics didn't go out only because his teams were loaded. He could average 15ppg on 40% shooting and still win because his team was just better. And that was probably his WORST finals team. It's nice that they won, but he sure doesn't look like a good scorer. I mean Curry's reputation as a GOAT scorer was pretty much killed by his mediocre Finals performances alone, and he won most of his Finals too and had a lot better effort in the loses than Bird did.

I mean come on now, in Game 3 of the 1981 Finals, Larry went 3-11 for 8 points and they won by 24 (he was the 7th-highest scorer on the team), then he went 3-11 for 8 points again and they lost by 5 despite Maxwell dropping 24 and Parish 18, then he went 5-16 for 12 points and they won by 29. That's what a stacked team will do for you.

In 1984 Finals he went 6-18 for 20 points in Game 7 and they won anyway behind Maxwell/DJ's scoring and the Laker choke.

In 1985 Finals they were tied 2-2 then he went 8-17 for 20 and 12-29 for 28 in losing the last two games and the series.

In the 1987 Finals he went 6-16 for just 16 points in losing the decisive Game 6 and the series.

How can you consistently be THAT quiet in big Finals games and still be the GOAT scorer? It's not like he has some great record of dominant games to counter it either. Even his "good" clutch Finals games are like 8-17 for 28, 10-26 for 28, etc.

Uhh, I think there’s a disconnect here

I don’t think Bird is the GOAT scorer, he’s clearly behind the like of MJ and even KD. He is one of the greatest tho because of his proficiency and prolific shooting ability.

I could hit you with a rebuttal for all those Bird moments where he “came up short” for his finest moments in the playoffs... but I don’t feel like it right now

That's just false, he put up damn near the same shooting numbers post-injury that he did pre-injury.

He had an eFG% of 48%, 47%, 43%, 43%, and 47% at age 23, 24, 25, 26, and 28. So 1984 and 1986 were the only two years he broke 50%. He was ALREADY inefficent in the postseason long before he got hurt.

Nah fam, there was a considerable drop off from that towards the end of his career.

Shooting in the mid to high 40’s isn’t inefficient for someone with Bird’s skill set anyway

 

[BigTyme Records]

Except nobody who actually played or coached against those guys say this. Y'all are literally fukking retarded.

MJ Bron KD all give you high volume and efficiency

Kobe is the worst of the 4. Its just that simple

 

[Gotright]

Except nobody who actually played or coached against those guys say this. Y'all are literally fukking retarded.

Care to give us your opinion and not no one else why you think that is retarded?

 

[ISO]

I’m not ignoring anything. Those are great skills to have and are amplified by the fact that Bron is 6’8” 270lb with a bionic leg. But I wouldn’t say that others didn’t display those skills as well.

And please, let’s not compare him to MJ. While MJ did shoot the large majority of his shots from midrange in, it was off of a multitude of actions combined with a skillset and moves LeBron couldn’t complete in his wildest dreams.

Again, I don’t make the definitions. It’s implied that “scorer” means a combination of skill plus statistical excellence and Bron, while high on the list, is not at the very top.

You are once again dismissing LeBron as a brute

LeBron is up there because on top of being a brute he is immensely skilled with high I.Q. and is a tough shot maker

Just say you only care about aesthetics man LeBron has scored in every way imaginable

 

[ISO]

I’ll stop trolling here for a second.

His scoring abilities aren’t underrated at all. We know what we’re going to get from Bron and its not variety. From 2011 on, 38% of his shots come from 0-3ft, 51% within 10ft with rest from 3. I mean really, he had one season where his average made FG by distance was 9.6.

He’s going to massive damage inside off of a heavy diet of PnR and iso and shoot 33-37% from 3 on 4-5 attempts. That’s his game, especially post-2010.

Not to say he’s not extremely effective but in terms of a combination of skill level and stats I can’t put him on a MJ, Kobe, KD-type level.

I don’t see what the big deal is. When people say “scorer” they aren’t just talking numbers. That’s a matter of semantics you need to take up with the basketball community.

You just described a diversified scoring attack and completely left out the low and midpost components of his game

You bringing up his field goal attempt distance shows that when you think scorer you’re thinking of a voluminous jumpshooter, the guys who make their bread and butter in the midrange. It’s an aesthetic thing first and foremost.

Thanks for admitting to trolling

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

The eye test allows you to see what you want to see

LeBron’s scoring game is well beyond “hard layups” but your biased eye don’t see the ridiculous shot making LeBron exhibits when he is on

It’s clear with the way y’all exclude bigs and what y’all trying to do here with LeBron that y’all equate scoring with players who are primarily voluminous jumpshooters

The diversity of LeBron’s scoring attack is completely undermined

Bron just can't do this bruh. Sorry

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

This post basically sums up the mindset of 90% of the regular posters of this section.

In a debate about scoring, the facts/stats about scoring don't matter. "It's not about the facts it's about the eye-test".

People here routinely either straight up ignore/dismiss the facts to run with whatever narrative makes them feel better or they make excuses for why the facts don't matter. "Lebron played in the weak east........he just bullies his way to the rim............w dominates the ball all the time so he should score a lot...........forget the stats the eye test says he's not a great scorer".

Lebron haters will pretend that KD is unquestionably a better scorer just out of spite.

It's not about dismissing facts/data.

It's about acknowledging there's more to the story. This is how most people, especially ninjas talk about sports.