Why is Michael Jordan generally considered to be the GOAT? What would you say to persuade me to believe he's the best if I don't think so? đź« 

Marc Spector

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I’m in my 40s…I lived it. Here and overseas (I’ve been all over, Asia, Europe…) - that global economy at their fingertips is a hyperbolic US centric perspective lol. You think Nike had Jordan ads on airwaves all across the globe? not at all, at most they had posters or magazine ads here and there. The distribution wasn’t there for them to justify the ad spends - Japan, France, and other tier 1 countries had more campaigns and releases but other countries weren’t even getting regular Jordans released at the time. Most countries I lived or been to were getting like 1 NBA game per week or just the finals. That global reach shyt is way overrated. Compared that to 247 Youtube and social media and NBA being broadcasted all over in diff languages + true worldwide distribution channel for Nike right now it’s night and day. Yes, Jordan was the first athlete to have his own line named after him and had iconic campaigns but the right place and right timing stuff is indeed overrated. If you have to bring up Nixon and Kissinger you know you’re reaching. China in the 90s was dirt poor they couldn’t afford no Jordans it was in the 2000s when their economy grew Kobe became a god-like figure there. In the 90s, Nike’s reach was still contained to Japan and a select few European countries. Russia, I admit I never been but I doubt the whole Soviet region was ever a top priority for Nike as their disposable income level remains low.
the reach of jordans fame doesnt begin or end with the shoe line. it helps alot but The NBA, Nike and Gatorade all had a hand in promoting the myth of Jordan. Stern himself partnered with China to get NBA game’s broadcast over there and during the 94 finals was the first time China was getting live games. Jordan comes outta retirement a year later and shocks the world, returning to the NBA narrative as “the hero”. How Popular Was America’s Basketball Icon in China During the 90s?

to put it in perspective Jordan was the first NBA superstar the Chinese became accommodated with after recovering from the revolution…and somehow you're implying that social media over-saturation (meaning anyone can be a star which takes away the IT factor) trumps that? Do you also think Bad Bunny is a bigger star than Michael Jackson? :jbhmm:
 

fifth column

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Imagine the NBA and your favorite “so called”goats without MJ to emulate. The only reason we compare these “next MJs” is cause they try to forged a path in MJ’s shadow. Without the MJ association no one would make a link other than Kobe.
 

Conan

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nikkas grew up on Jordan. You ain't crackin mythology + nostalgia.

And that's all that needs to be said on that.

Wemby could win 10 straight rings and he still ain't beating Jordan in their eyes :mjlol:

And that's not to say Jordan isn't the greatest. It's just, a lot of cats from that era have their mind made up. And that's ok.
 

scarhead

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the reach of jordans fame doesnt begin or end with the shoe line. it helps alot but The NBA, Nike and Gatorade all had a hand in promoting the myth of Jordan. Stern himself partnered with China to get NBA game’s broadcast over there and during the 94 finals was the first time China was getting live games. Jordan comes outta retirement a year later and shocks the world, returning to the NBA narrative as “the hero”. How Popular Was America’s Basketball Icon in China During the 90s?

to put it in perspective Jordan was the first NBA superstar the Chinese became accommodated with after recovering from the revolution…and somehow you're implying that social media over-saturation (meaning anyone can be a star which takes away the IT factor) trumps that? Do you also think Bad Bunny is a bigger star than Michael Jackson? :jbhmm:
Lol, you’re selectively overrating the impact of 90’s era and at the same time downplaying the power of true global media and distribution era we live in now. Social media oversaturation applies to things like influencer economies or pop culture trends. That “anyone can be a star” thing doesn’t apply to sports stars because pro leagues are legitimately merit based. Plus, sports due to its live nature is still one of the few things that guarantee eyeballs that’s why the TV deal is going up everytime and Superbowl ads cost Ms - so for sports, the amplification factor of social media outweighs the oversaturation part by miles.

If MJ was the cable and sat TV athlete, then LeBron was/is the high speed wifi and social media athlete - he had and still has multiples tools to boost his profile in ways not feasible or even imaginable in the 90s.

Plus, the Bad Bunny example is not a good comparison because barriers of entry in music business is indeed low in this era unlike sports so the dilution or oversaturation angle you’re using applies there but not in sports where you have to be great in measurable ways (“check my stats”, right?).

How about this tho, since we’re talking 90s, R9, the real Ronaldo had soccer on lock in the mid 90s to early 2000s (he won the worldcup in 2002) - dominating competition in different European leagues from Serie A to La Liga, the face of Nike soccer, etc and was the modern era GOAT in many people’s eyes but Messi still became the modern era GOAT. Messi and LeBron came up in the same era tho so what did Messi have that LeBron didn’t?

Again, I have Bron in my top 4 and depending on the day he’s my top 2 and I’m not trying to downplay his greatness just saying he had enough resources and tools himself marketing-wise that the “Nike machine” made MJ the GOAT argument doesn’t make sense to me.
 

OsO

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once Jordan got in a position to win... HE NEVER LOST.

This is the biggest factor that puts MJ over the rest. When it came to winning time, MJ always came away with the W. He could make the big shot, the big pass, the big block, the big steal, the big defensive stop... whatever it took to win, he did it. And he instilled that winning attitude into his teammates.

That plus the more technical stuff. MJ was unstoppable on offense, he had a counter for every defense. Lebron has struggled with his jumpshot and I've seen him get locked by Boris Diaw (in the finals no less).

Also defensively there's no comparison. MJ is a lock down man defender, AND he gets steals. Bron will consistently give up buckets because he just doesn't have the motor/dog in him to compete on the defensive end throughout an entire game/series. He takes way too many possessions off.

Lebron is great though I have him at #2 all time. Leading scorer in NBA history and might also be the best passer. That's saying something.
 

fifth column

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And that's all that needs to be said on that.

Wemby could win 10 straight rings and he still ain't beating Jordan in their eyes :mjlol:

And that's not to say Jordan isn't the greatest. It's just, a lot of cats from that era have their mind made up. And that's ok.
I disagree, if Wemby grind through the ups and downs and then ultimately wins 7 straight with the Spurs as the leader/best player he would overtake MJ as the goat. No one has overtake MJ yet cause they haven’t done what MJ did. You gotta walk the stairs to the top floor instead of riding the escalator
 
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No_bammer_weed

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Jordan dominated during a very weak period of expansion level 90s basketball. Now if Jordan were whooping strong squads in their prime like the 80s Celtics, lakers, or pistons then we’d have a different discussion

The bulls won 55 games the year after Jordan retired the first time. Squad was loaded.
 

duckbutta

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Imagine the NBA and your favorite “so called”goats without MJ to emulate. The only reason we compare these “next MJs” is cause they try to forged a path in MJ’s shadow. Without the MJ association no one would make a link other than Kobe.
So when you watch Lebron James play basketball one of the thoughts you have to yourself is "he is trying to emulate Jordan" :pachaha:
 

murksiderock

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I think his longevity + scoring record helped minimize his finals losses which ultimately was a pain point in his career.
This may be true that it minimized his Finals losses but I think Bron's Finals runs have never been held in the correct context anyway:

•only 1 of his 6 Finals losses is directly attributable to Bron's poor play. Anyone looking at Bron's history with an objective eye isn't holding the other 5 losses against him, dudes only get on that "he lost 6 Finals" shyt because it sounds good compared to a bunch of players who a)couldn't get to The Finals as much or b)won more Finals with better teams than the majority of Bron's teams;

•Bron got to 6 Finals in his first 12 seasons (50%), 7 in his first 13 (53.8%), 8 in his first 14 (57.1%), 9 in his first 15 (60%), 10 in his first 17 seasons (58.8%), and is still at 10 thru 20 seasons (50%). He's literally spent half, or more, of his career playing in Finals for most of his career. This isn't the characteristic of a loser, and in comparison to Mike (and many others), we saw Mike on squads as bad as the '07 or '18 Cavs and he either couldn't win a single playoff series or even make the playoffs...

I don't know how this gets overlooked in the Bron/Mike comp, Mike clearly didn't have the ability to elevate rosters to anywhere near the degree that Bron did, so in essence what we congratulate Mike for, is being able to stack championships when given the best team in basketball. That's what we applaud him for...
It partially is though. He's been relatively healthy and has been a consistent player at a top level for many years.

His longevity will ultimately hurt him tho bc he doesn't have the "pop" moments like Jordan
What do you mean by "pop" moments?
 

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Jordan dominated during a very weak period of expansion level 90s basketball. Now if Jordan were whooping strong squads in their prime like the 80s Celtics, lakers, or pistons then we’d have a different discussion

The bulls won 55 games the year after Jordan retired the first time. Squad was loaded.
nikkas grew up on Jordan. You ain't crackin mythology + nostalgia.
 
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