White man confirms Black people have been in America thousands of years before Slavery

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

@KidStranglehold - My commentary on pirogues/West African canoes were largely an analysis on the claim that Akan made which cited a Malian source stating that those pirogues were capable of making a trans-oceanic journey to say, Hispaniola or modern-day Guatemala/Mexico.

 

[Knicksman20]

"We taught them civilization," same shyt Europeans said about Africans. And there is zero evidence to support any of those claims

I hate to say it but these days the people who are falsifying history the most aren't even white.

I don't understand why you keep inserting yourself into Black topics when you're not Black.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

The problem is, how do we nkow those boat-builders were not influenced by post-colonial designs?

What post colonial designs? Europeans? European ships do not resemble those.

Nonetheless, I never claimed that the Malian Empire lacked sails. Just lateen sails and the technology to make Trans-Oceanic voyages.

Like I said via the Canary current a trip from West Africa to South America would take no more than two weeks.

Austronesian were able to sail to Madagascar from Malaysia with FAR less advanced boats. And don't even get me started on the ancestors of Australian Aboriginals sailing from Asia to Australia. Even far less advanced boats used.

But to be CLEAR me myself am not making any "confirmed" claims. Just saying it could be possible.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

What post colonial designs? Europeans? European ships do not resemble those.



Like I said via the Canary current a trip from West Africa to South America would take no more than two weeks.

Austronesian were able to sail to Madagascar from Malaysia with FAR less advanced boats. And don't even get me started on the ancestors of Australian Aboriginals sailing from Asia to Australia. Even far less advanced boats used.

But to be CLEAR me myself am not making any "confirmed" claims. Just saying it could be possible.

I have seen modern West African ships used for fishing with lateen sails. Those designs were likely introduced due to the transformative changes of the colonial process.


Re: Austronesians - The Indian Ocean has prevailing winds which make sailing to Madagascar possible. Those same winds made the vast Indian Ocean trade possible and enabled African peoples like the Somalis and Swahilis to engage with far-flung trading partners like Cochin and Ming Dynasty China. Not even speaking of outrigger sailing canoe technology which the Austronesians/Polynesians used.

Re: Australian Aboriginals - the Ice Ages lowered the sea's volume and made the region of Australia and New Guinea resemble something like this:

Very easy to migrate in those conditions. Such conditions didn't exist for pre-colonial West Africans. In the conditions above, you can sail island to island with a canoe or a pirogue in an archipelago. That's how the Caribbean became populated after all. However, after the ice ages ended - indigenous Australians were by and large cut-off from the rest of Asia except for Makassan fisherman in modern day Indonesia who, once again, utilized lateen sails

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I have seen modern West African ships used for fishing with lateen sails. Those designs were likely introduced due to the transformative changes of the colonial process.

I need to see proof that it was all due to colonial times.

I

Re: Austronesians - The Indian Ocean has prevailing winds which make sailing to Madagascar possible. Those same winds made the vast Indian Ocean trade possible and enabled African peoples like the Somalis and Swahilis to engage with far-flung trading partners like Cochin and Ming Dynasty China. Not even speaking of outrigger sailing canoe technology which they used.

Re: Australian Aboriginals - the Ice Ages lowered the sea's volume and made the region of Australia and New Guinea resemble something like this:

Very easy to migrate in those conditions. Such conditions didn't exist for pre-colonial West Africans.

Good point butv the canary currents don't seem much difficult to navigate.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

I don't understand why you keep inserting yourself into Black topics when you're not Black.

Why are you inserting yourself into Mesoamerican history when you aren't Mesoamerican?

 

[Mr.bocario]

Unless ya'll gotta military to back up your claims it won't matter.

The war wouldn't have to be fought with guns, but we would win if we dropped the bullshyt in our minds

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

I need to see proof that it was all due to colonial times.



Good point butv the canary currents don't seem much difficult to navigate.

I'm not a learned scholar on the diffusion of the lateen sail beyond the Indian Ocean/Mediterrenean periphery but I cannot find mention of its use in pre-colonial Africa outside of North and East Africa. Moreover, I've found articles noting its independent development in what is now Polynesia but nothing about littoral West Africa and Sahelian states like Mali or Songhai.

Re: Canary Currents (Canary Islands)
Scholars note that a few technological innovations made visits in the 15th century CE possible - compass, stern rudder, astrolabe, cog caravel. The closest thing to a Cog/Caravel in "Black Africa" were the Somali dhows/Swahili Mtepes.

Is it possible that a small sailing ship from what is now Senegal could've accidentally deposited itself on the Canary Islands? Hmm...maybe? But if West Africans used any sails at all... it'd likely be square sails which puts them at a disadvantage.

Let's also note that North Africans had sailing technology which allowed them to conquer places like Sicily and Spain but have very little evidence of visiting the Canary Islands (as far as I know)


Edit: Found an Arabic claim for landing in the Canary Islands - interesting. No citation so I cannot investigate further. Oh well.

During the Middle Ages Arabs visited the islands. For example, the Muslim navigator Ibn Farrukh, from Umayyad Granada, allegedly landed in "Gando" (Gran Canaria) in February 999, visiting a king named Guanarigato.

 

[blackzeus]

Most of you could have confirmed your origins sooner by simply asking the elders in your family.........

To keep it a buck, when I was younger I wanted to change my family name on some Malcolm X sh*t, because I didn't want a slave name. My pops looked at me with a straight face and told me "This has ALWAYS been our family name" That sh*t always stuck with me, and that was like 15 years ago I legit think not all blacks were Mbuntu or Kwame or some sh*t like that, even during the birth of this nation.

 

[Leasy]

I'll post the documentary & you judge for yourself. These cultures used similar styles in building & all had one thing in common: They aligned these structures to the stars or had them facing in certain directions. Nothing about these structures are coincidence to me. It's like at one point the whole earth was united under some kind of star worship. Giza plateau

Olympus Mons on Mars

Don't want to get too far fetch and crazy but the ancient Sumer had a tale of one of the Annuanaki who got exiled to a planet and there he died but he built his face to look in the sky and mounments

Cydonia this next to an ancient river bed

Interesting video.

First, I wonder why Africans are so obsessed with Olmec Heads. Second, I've seen Indigenous Americans with thick lips

So why is it so hard to believe that they're depicting themselves?

It reminds me of when Europeans stumbled upon Great Zimbabwe but they couldn't believe Africans created its walls.

Because the Olmec who Mexico provided one to a African nation had dreads n shyt breh no striaght hair

The problem is, how do we know those boat-builders were not influenced by post-colonial designs?

Nonetheless, I never claimed that the Malian Empire lacked sails. Just lateen sails and the technology to make Trans-Oceanic voyages.

Breh a scientist use a boat that the natives used and sail to South America with no problem m.

 

[Samori Toure]

its a totally different pursuit, sailing the ocean versus crossing the desert. Its is clear that they had a long tradition of crossing the desert, which hey didn't for crossing the ocean.

Not really. Navigation is navigation. The shifting sands are just like the rolling waves. The same technology that the Arabs used to cross the deserts is the same skills that Spain used to sail the seas.

What is really strange is that no one ever notices is that it is over 3,000 miles from Mali to Saudi Arabia, but it is only about 1,974 miles from Gambia to the State of Rio Grande Brazil.

 

[luciddreamer]

We can all debate till blue in the face....
Human history is just one big game of telephone imo, so until we invent time travel we prob wont ever know what was actual fact from fiction thousands of years ago.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Not really. Navigation is navigation. The shifting sands are just like the rolling waves. The same technology that the Arabs used to cross the deserts is the same skills that Spain used to sail the seas.

What is really strange is that no one ever notices is that it is over 3,000 miles from Mali to Saudi Arabia, but it is only about 1,974 miles from Gambia to the State of Rio Grande Brazil.

No, ocean navigation is far different for a number of reasons. Before I get into that, I just wish to note that Trans-Saharan trade has been going over for over a millenia - well before the rise of the Mali Empire.

Anyway, the sands of the Sahara do not have the problems of prevailing winds and currents. Sailing before the age of steam required sailors to know what currents/winds they could tack onto in order to sail to a destination. No such equivalent in walking across a desert

So for instance, if you were a sailor in Mogadishu around 1500 - you'd have to wait for the right monsoon wind to take you to Calicut in India. But if you weren't careful, you could miscalculate the right departure time and become stranded where you were.

Bedouin Arabs, Tuaregs and other people traversed the Sahara at various times of the year. Even during harmattan. So no. They're not equivalent.

 

[Samori Toure]

I never argued that they didn't know navigation. Just that they lacked lateen sails/mtepes and dhows which could've helped with a transatlantic voyage.

Also, pilgrimage to Mecca is far different from travelling to the Americas. For one, Malians knew where Mecca was and how to get there. North Africa had been populated by Muslims since the 600s. Islam reached West Africa during the Ghana Empire.

First of all according to Mansa Musa:

"...Abu Bakr became convinced that he could find the edge of the Atlantic Ocean, and outfitted an expedition of 200 ships to find it. Only one of those ships returned; the captain related that the expedition had come to a "river with a powerful current" in the ocean. The current took most of the fleet away, after which the captain turned back. According to Musa, Abu Bakr was undeterred and launched an even larger expedition with himself as the head, departing with 2,000 vessels for his men and a like number for supplies. He left Musa, his vizier, as his deputy during his absence. The expedition was never heard from again, and Musa became the next emperor.[1][2][3]"

Abu Bakr II - Wikipedia

Abubakir had sent an expedition of 200 ships out in advance. When the captain of that expedition returned; Abubakir then equipped an expedition of 2,000 ships. So Abubakir had some knowledge, even if limited, of the geography of the ocean; because he had sent out a smaller expedition in advance of his own expedition.

Secondly, neither you nor I know what technology was used in these expeditions. How do we know that they didn't lash large canoes together and put a platform on it; sort of like a catamaran?

We don't know. That is why what you are doing is conjecturing just like all of the other sources that you are discounting.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

First of all according to Mansa Musa:

"...Abu Bakr became convinced that he could find the edge of the Atlantic Ocean, and outfitted an expedition of 200 ships to find it. Only one of those ships returned; the captain related that the expedition had come to a "river with a powerful current" in the ocean. The current took most of the fleet away, after which the captain turned back. According to Musa, Abu Bakr was undeterred and launched an even larger expedition with himself as the head, departing with 2,000 vessels for his men and a like number for supplies. He left Musa, his vizier, as his deputy during his absence. The expedition was never heard from again, and Musa became the next emperor.[1][2][3]"

Abu Bakr II - Wikipedia

Abubakir had sent an expedition of 200 ships out in advance. When the captain of that expedition returned; Abubakir then equipped an expedition of 2,000 ships. So Abubakir had some knowledge, even if limited, of the geography of the ocean; because he had sent out a smaller expedition in advance of his own expedition.

Secondly, neither you nor I know what technology was used in these expeditions. How do we know that they didn't lash large canoes together and put a platform on it; sort of like a catamaran?

We don't know. That is why what you are doing is conjecturing just like all of the other sources that you are discounting.

You're citing the source you cited earlier. My response to it is generally the same. Without concrete evidence, I do not believe this claim made by that source.

Moreover, catamarans/outrigger canoes are not a technology that was used by West Africans. Another problem with the claim that West Africans developed that particular technology is why did they stop using them after inventing them? There's no further evidence of their use in the region. In contrast, Polynesians have been using catamarans continously (through many kingdoms and societies) since 1500 BCE.