White man confirms Black people have been in America thousands of years before Slavery

[Dzali OG]

None of you will get it until you realize it's ALL wrong. I keep saying in thread after thread.

Realize that there have been civilizations more advanced than present day. There have been GLOBAL civilizations. When you realize this, things more easily make sense. Instead of the gymnastics you must currently perform.

How often something happens which knock us back to zero I can't say. All these megalithic structures and pyramids, etc., were not built by this incarnation of man. Going back at least 10000 years.

There more than likely were black civilizations here, but tens of thousands of years ago. Before everything was destroyed and the current version of us emerged....or reintroduced...

Same as, the skeletons of red haired, 7 feet tall white people can't be explained.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

You are going to far in your thought process. All that we know is that Mansa Abubakari set off across the Atlantic with a fleet. We believe this to be true, because Musa came to the throne.

We have no other information about what happened to Abubakari's fleet, but people conjecture that it might have been successful because of what Columbus later wrote about seeing. If you have some evidence showing that it was not successful then share it; otherwise you are in the same position as everyone else which is conjecture.

I don't think I'm going too far with my thought process. You brought in the hypotheticals that the Malians:
a) Didn't return to Mali
b) Built mosques

No such evidence of those events on a linguistic, religious or even edificial basis.

I don't believe every historical account I come across. My opinion will remain that no such crossing occurred until I have concrete evidence of such an event.

 

[Pit Bull]

Some of the groups that were indigenous to the America's were definitely black in phenotype but they were probably pacific islanders or from southeast Asia, probably some black Australoid looking people too. Not just in Olmec times but more recently in the 1800s as well.

These are indigenous Easter Islanders

Now look how close Easter Island is to the America's on the map. Do you people honestly think that it is too far fetched for people black in phenotype to be native to a body of land that lies right next to another body of land that hosts indigenous blacks.

 

[Samori Toure]

I don't think I'm going too far with my thought process. You brought in the hypotheticals that the Malians:
a) Didn't return to Mali
b) Built mosques

No such evidence of those events on a linguistic, religious or even edificial basis.

I don't believe every historical account I come across. My opinion will remain that no such crossing occurred until I have concrete evidence of such an event.

Columbus stated that he saw Mosques in Cuba. I didn't see the Mosque, so I didn't state anything.

So basically it is like I stated. You are conjecturing just like the other folks conjectured. You have no more proof than they have.

 

[loyola llothta]

Cac says it then it must be false by default.

 

[rtrRaven]

We all from Africa

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Columbus stated that he saw Mosques in Cuba. I didn't see the Mosque, so I didn't state anything.

So basically it is like I stated. You are conjecturing just like the other folks conjectured. You have no more proof than they have.

You wrote:

Who wrote anything about them returning to Africa? The accounts of the story just mentions that he sailed from Africa

That's not my conjecture. I'm questioning your hypothetical scenario in which you insinuate that they didn't return to Africa.

On proof - the onus isn't on me to produce proof. Similar to how common law works. It's on the individual or entity making a claim to produce substantial evidence in order to strengthen that claim. Otherwise, individuals (such as myself) have reason to doubt a particular claim.

 

[el_oh_el]

Breh that's what peer reviewed is for the most part. It's the gate way to legitimize your work. It must be taken with a grain of salt

If we are to take "peer-reviewed" with a grain of salt, what the fukk are we supposed to believe then? To me, peer reviewed LOGICAL research is all I will fukk with when dealing with these types of subjects..

 

[Samori Toure]

You wrote:


That's not my conjecture. I'm questioning your hypothetical scenario in which you insinuate that they didn't return to Africa.

On proof - the onus isn't on me to produce proof. Similar to how common law works. It's on the individual or entity making a claim to produce substantial evidence in order to strengthen that claim. Otherwise, individuals (such as myself) have reason to doubt a particular claim.

The onus is not on anybody to produce anything. The story is that Abubakari left Mali with a fleet. That is it.

I don't know if he landed and you don't know that he didn't land. I still don't know what point you are trying to make, but whatever.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Some of the groups that were indigenous to the America's were definitely black in phenotype but they were probably pacific islanders or from southeast Asia, probably some black Australoid looking people too. Not just in Olmec times but more recently in the 1800s as well.

These are indigenous Easter Islanders

Now look how close Easter Island is to the America's on the map. Do you people honestly think that it is too far fetched for people black in phenotype to be native to a body of land that lies right next to another body of land that hosts indigenous blacks.

There are a few problems with your claim:
- What is a Black phenotype? What is Blackness? Numerous peoples outside of Africa have 'Black phenotypes' such as indigenous Australians and Papua New Guineans who have been living in their respective lands for more than 40,000 years. Are they 'Black'? Can people outside of Africa be described as Black? My point being, at what point does a phenotype stop being refered to as 'African' despite being Black. This relates to my second point.
- Polynesians have been noted to be dark in skin colour, hair colour and have full lips. However these features are certainly not unique to Black Africans from West, Central and Southern Africa. Melanesians like Fijians also count in this regard. That doesn't mean that they're natives of Africa. In fact, Polynesians originate in what is now Taiwan. Are these Taiwanese descendants Black?

- Now, you're insinauting that I don't think that people who have Black phenotypes can make open water voyages. Not entirely true. There's genetic evidence (real, substantiated evidence) that Black people sailed to Madagascar at around the same time Austronesians from Borneo sailed to that island. What evidence is there that Malians sailed to Guatemala or Hispaniola (as @Akan believes) to spread Islam and inspire people to build large stone heads? None, really.
- Moreover, West Africans (unlike East Africans of Swahili heritage) didn't have the naval technology nor the economic incentives to make such voyages. Remember, Columbus made his voyage in 1492 to get to the Indies or China. There was an economic incentive. Plus, naval technology in Western Europe had advanced enough to allow for voyages to places like the Canary Islands. In contrast, West African naval technology had little incentive to go beyond large canoes (some could fit 100 men) along rivers like the Gambia and Niger. Their trade routes were inland going towards states like Morocco in the north or Benin in the south. Furthermore, West Africa's prevailing winds prevent sea travel without a lateen sail to sail against that wind. That technology only existed around the Indian Ocean coastline of East Africa at that time.

 

[Pit Bull]

Interesting video.

First, I wonder why Africans are so obsessed with Olmec Heads. Second, I've seen Indigenous Americans with thick lips

So why is it so hard to believe that they're depicting themselves?

It reminds me of when Europeans stumbled upon Great Zimbabwe but they couldn't believe Africans created its walls.

Really, have you ever seen an indigenous American with a box fade?

 

[Samori Toure]

There are a few problems with your claim:
- What is a Black phenotype? What is Blackness? Numerous peoples outside of Africa have 'Black phenotypes' such as indigenous Australians and Papua New Guineans who have been living in their respective lands for more than 40,000 years. Are they 'Black'? Can people outside of Africa be described as Black? My point being, at what point does a phenotype stop being refered to as 'African' despite being Black. This relates to my second point.
- Polynesians have been noted to be dark in skin colour, hair colour and have full lips. However these features are certainly not unique to Black Africans from West, Central and Southern Africa. Melanesians like Fijians also count in this regard. That doesn't mean that they're natives of Africa. In fact, Polynesians originate in what is now Taiwan. Are these Taiwanese descendants Black?

- Now, you're insinauting that I don't think that people who have Black phenotypes can make open water voyages. Not entirely true. There's genetic evidence (real, substantiated evidence) that Black people sailed to Madagascar at around the same time Austronesians from Borneo sailed to that island. What evidence is there that Malians sailed to Guatemala or Hispaniola (as @Akan believes) to spread Islam and inspire people to build large stone heads? None, really.
- Moreover, West Africans (unlike East Africans of Swahili heritage) didn't have the naval technology nor the economic incentives to make such voyages. Remember, Columbus made his voyage in 1492 to get to the Indies or China. There was an economic incentive. Plus, naval technology in Western Europe had advanced enough to allow for voyages to places like the Canary Islands. In contrast, West African naval technology had little incentive to go beyond large canoes (some could fit 100 men) along rivers like the Gambia and Niger. Their trade routes were inland going towards states like Morocco in the south or Benin in the south. Furthermore, West Africa's prevailing winds prevent sea travel without a lateen sail to sail against that wind. That technology only existed around the Indian Ocean coastline of East Africa at that time.

You are going way too far in your thought processes. I wrote that Mansa Abubakari set sail from Africa and he may have reached America; and Columbus' sightings may be proof of that. That was it.

Secondly, the Black people of Madagascar have a Polynesian strain of DNA. That is a likely reason that many African Americans have a Polynesian strain of DNA, because they likely had ancestors that were taken as slaves from Madagascar. How did the Black people get to Madagascar?

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Polynesians cont'd

You may ask, "But these Polynesians made their extremely long voyages! Why couldn't West Africans of a state like Mali?"

Aside from the points I made above, West Africans didn't have outrigger canoes with sails like the Polynesians. Not because they didn't know how. Solely because they didn't have an incentive to make them. If West Africa was an island chain, surely they would've invented such technology. But they didn't have to. If you wanted to build a new village or farming land, all you had to do is pick up your belongings and walk or ride a horse/camel to another area. There was no need to sail. If you did have to use naval technology, you'd just climb into a caneo and paddle down a river.

In my Peopling of Africa thread, I note that the Swahili invented boats that didn't need nails and could sail as far as Oman and India. What incentives did they have to produce such technology?

a) The Swahili States were along a coastline and had limited land to expand into until the late 19th century with people like Tippu Tip.
b) They needed to trade with peoples which were far away. West Africans could rely on Trans-Saharan slave routes. And when Europeans arrived, they came to them. Swahilis needed to go to Oman sometimes.
c) People had to becoming to their shores for awhile. Voyages to West Africa's coastlines are fairly recent, starting with the Portuguese in the 1400s.

 

[Pit Bull]

There are a few problems with your claim:
- What is a Black phenotype? What is Blackness? Numerous peoples outside of Africa have 'Black phenotypes' such as indigenous Australians and Papua New Guineans who have been living in their respective lands for more than 40,000 years. Are they 'Black'? Can people outside of Africa be described as Black? My point being, at what point does a phenotype stop being refered to as 'African' despite being Black. This relates to my second point.
- Polynesians have been noted to be dark in skin colour, hair colour and have full lips. However these features are certainly not unique to Black Africans from West, Central and Southern Africa. Melanesians like Fijians also count in this regard. That doesn't mean that they're natives of Africa. In fact, Polynesians originate in what is now Taiwan. Are these Taiwanese descendants Black?

- Now, you're insinauting that I don't think that people who have Black phenotypes can make open water voyages. Not entirely true. There's genetic evidence (real, substantiated evidence) that Black people sailed to Madagascar at around the same time Austronesians from Borneo sailed to that island. What evidence is there that Malians sailed to Guatemala or Hispaniola (as @Akan believes) to spread Islam and inspire people to build large stone heads? None, really.
- Moreover, West Africans (unlike East Africans of Swahili heritage) didn't have the naval technology nor the economic incentives to make such voyages. Remember, Columbus made his voyage in 1492 to get to the Indies or China. There was an economic incentive. Plus, naval technology in Western Europe had advanced enough to allow for voyages to places like the Canary Islands. In contrast, West African naval technology had little incentive to go beyond large canoes (some could fit 100 men) along rivers like the Gambia and Niger. Their trade routes were inland going towards states like Morocco in the south or Benin in the south. Furthermore, West Africa's prevailing winds prevent sea travel without a lateen sail to sail against that wind. That technology only existed around the Indian Ocean coastline of East Africa at that time.

Africans aren't the only black people in existence apparently

Melanesian's are outside of African and referred to as Melanesian's so Yea apparent black people from outside of Africa can be referred to as black...you know if they are black, black does not mean African

I didn't say that Polynesians came from Africa, you're making up shyt just to argue with yourself

And what exactly is my claim? I didn't claim shyt.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Finally, search for outrigger canoe technology and Africa on Google. East African countries like Tanzania or Madagascar keep showing up. Meaning, they kept that technology. If African pirogues could travel across the Atlantic, why did they only go once? Also, if Mali could do it, why didn't the much larger Songhai Empire make that voyage too?

Pirogues in Cameroon. I imagine that Malian Pirogues would be larger but such boats are too flimsy. The Atlantic is really rough.

Below is the type of boat Swahilis used up until the late 19th century (they kept their technology!) It looks fairly sturdy.