What is the exact PROOF that Lebron is a better "all-round" player than Jordan? Stats say otherwise

[viktordoomsecretwars]

There's no aspect of the game I'll pick Lebron over Jordan. This video just demolishes this nonsensical debate:

 

[JA_Carter]

Jordan propaganda once again. Assist numbers doesn’t tell the whole story when it comes to passing ability. If that’s the case then Westbrook& Rondo, good passers in their own right, are better passers than Lebron. But anybody that actually watches the games instead of just checking stats on basketball reference wouldn’t hesitate is saying Lebron is a better passer than them and probably 95% of players in the history of the game. His vision is unlike anyone I’ve seen and him averaging just 7 assist doesn’t change my opinion.

Not taking anything away from Jordan, he was a good passer for a SG for that era (I’ve only just watched a bunch of Jordan games cause of this quarantine) but it’s debatable that he wasn’t even the best playmaker on his own team.

Another thing, doesn’t Jordan have a higher usage rate than Lebron? How can the ball always be in Bron’s hands if that’s the case?

Jordan was the superior scorer, superior man to man defender but Lebron was the better defender playing the ‘safety role’ more versatile as a defender due to his size and is the superior passer. If this was 2k they’d be the only players I’d rate 99 at their peak but the difference between them is a lot smaller than the pro Jordan media would have you thinking. In fact, the only thing that has me picking Jordan over Lebron is mentality. Jordan would NEVER have a 2011 finals.

 

[Gotright]

Only things bron better then Jordan at is passing matter fact he is one of the best passers ever and He also better in transition.

 

[McPiff]

y'all really aint shyt

 

[mbewane]

The majority of Jordan’s career was in the triangle, his all around stat padding was useless and counterproductive to the triangle. Lebron’s offenses revolved solely around him. Which is why stats are subjective and need to be put in context when comparing them.

I'm tired of all these narratives trying to bash MJ even though there's been all kinds of threads/stats posted here and there that show how dominant, complete and a winner he was. So I just quote this, which is basically what I said in another thread. Lebron has been the primary ball-handler his whole career, as opposed to MJ who often times was the 3rd ball handler, when you take into account whoever was the PG and Pippen. Plus the triangle just doesn't require a dominant ball-handler. That being said, the difference in career averages is a whopping 2 assists per game lol (5.3 vs 7.4). People make it sound like Bron has averaged 10 assists his whole career and is Magic out there. And strictly using stats is stupid anyway, no one in their right mind would say that Westbrook is a better passer than Bron. All that being said when MJ DID play PG for a longer amount of time he ended up having like 7 triple double in 11 games lol.

For the rebounds, again both do not play the same position and the style of play of the Cavs was more inducive to Bron getting the ball and pushing in transition as opposed to the Bulls with Grant/Pippen playing that role and MJ leaking out doing what he does best. That being said, MJ still has a career average of 6.2 rebounds. Bron has a whopping...7.4 rebound career average. A 1.2 career difference lol. Brehs act like he's Rodman out there.

Not even going to talk about defense, where MJ has Bron beat whatever angle you want to look at it from. Unless one's whole concept of "defense" is chase-down blocks.

Let's leave offense entirely out of this. Even though it would be entertaining to see what Bron stans come up with to explaing how he's better on offense than MJ.

So how exactly is Bron a better all-around player than MJ.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

I'm tired of all these narratives trying to bash MJ even though there's been all kinds of threads/stats posted here and there that show how dominant, complete and a winner he was. So I just quote this, which is basically what I said in another thread. Lebron has been the primary ball-handler his whole career, as opposed to MJ who often times was the 3rd ball handler, when you take into account whoever was the PG and Pippen. Plus the triangle just doesn't require a dominant ball-handler. That being said, the difference in career averages is a whopping 2 assists per game lol (5.3 vs 7.4). People make it sound like Bron has averaged 10 assists his whole career and is Magic out there. And strictly using stats is stupid anyway, no one in their right mind would say that Westbrook is a better passer than Bron. All that being said when MJ DID play PG for a longer amount of time he ended up having like 7 triple double in 11 games lol.

For the rebounds, again both do not play the same position and the style of play of the Cavs was more inducive to Bron getting the ball and pushing in transition as opposed to the Bulls with Grant/Pippen playing that role and MJ leaking out doing what he does best. That being said, MJ still has a career average of 6.2 rebounds. Bron has a whopping...7.4 rebound career average. A 1.2 career difference lol. Brehs act like he's Rodman out there.

Not even going to talk about defense, where MJ has Bron beat whatever angle you want to look at it from. Unless one's whole concept of "defense" is chase-down blocks.

Let's leave offense entirely out of this. Even though it would be entertaining to see what Bron stans come up with to explaing how he's better on offense than MJ.

So how exactly is Bron a better all-around player than MJ.

Its even 10 triple doubles in 11 games. Just watch that video I posted above ^^ The guy does a thorough job

 

[dappadonna]

This isn't healthy lads

 

[mbewane]

Its even 10 triple doubles in 11 games. Just watch that video I posted above ^^ The guy does a thorough job

Thx will do!

 

[HabitualChiller]

They used to disguise zones back then, it's like how they don't always call holding in football they didn't always call illegal defense

The defensive 3 second (which also isn't always called) makes it harder for a true zone to be run

MJ had a GOAT tier midrange game, zone would not hurt him as much as it's made out to be, he'd shoot over that shyt like Kobe used to vs Spurs. Zone is used on guys with subpar jumpers that don't really have a plan B or C, MJ was not that at all: he had a move, a counter, and a counter to that counter. Great video (from a great series) by Drew Hanlen discussing this

When Jordan made those comments about zone it was in the context of post friendly poorly spaced 90s and early 00s. I really doubt MJ would have said the same in the context of today's NBA where the offensive player has a massive advantage especially as primary ball handler

MJ didn't become godly from midrange until the early 90's though. You just left off the first 6-8 years of his career.

 

[HabitualChiller]

I'm tired of all these narratives trying to bash MJ even though there's been all kinds of threads/stats posted here and there that show how dominant, complete and a winner he was. So I just quote this, which is basically what I said in another thread. Lebron has been the primary ball-handler his whole career, as opposed to MJ who often times was the 3rd ball handler, when you take into account whoever was the PG and Pippen. Plus the triangle just doesn't require a dominant ball-handler. That being said, the difference in career averages is a whopping 2 assists per game lol (5.3 vs 7.4). People make it sound like Bron has averaged 10 assists his whole career and is Magic out there. And strictly using stats is stupid anyway, no one in their right mind would say that Westbrook is a better passer than Bron. All that being said when MJ DID play PG for a longer amount of time he ended up having like 7 triple double in 11 games lol.

For the rebounds, again both do not play the same position and the style of play of the Cavs was more inducive to Bron getting the ball and pushing in transition as opposed to the Bulls with Grant/Pippen playing that role and MJ leaking out doing what he does best. That being said, MJ still has a career average of 6.2 rebounds. Bron has a whopping...7.4 rebound career average. A 1.2 career difference lol. Brehs act like he's Rodman out there.

Not even going to talk about defense, where MJ has Bron beat whatever angle you want to look at it from. Unless one's whole concept of "defense" is chase-down blocks.

Let's leave offense entirely out of this. Even though it would be entertaining to see what Bron stans come up with to explaing how he's better on offense than MJ.

So how exactly is Bron a better all-around player than MJ.

LeBron is a much better playmaker and passer, is a much better 3-point shooter, and is good from the midrange.

MJ is godly from midrange, bad from three, and is only a great passer for his position.

Both of them are unstoppable at the rim. I can't really give it to either one because LeBron literally has the entire defense collapse whenever he gets to the rim, while MJ is smooth like Kyrie.

Defense...who did MJ guard? MJ's on-ball D is overrated imo.

 

[Voice of Reason]

No one is saying Lebron is better than Jordan





he’s better than Kobe though

 

[murksiderock]

Those of you who saw Bulls Jordan play, please explain to me what made him a better defender? And point me to the video that shows Mike as a demonstrably greater defensive player?

I know this board likes to pretend that LeBron wasn't one of the greatest superstar wing defenders ever, but there's nothing I've seen, nor do the numbers support, Mike as a demonstrably greater defensive player, so my thought us that its marginal. I'm open to any link to support Mike as just unequivocally better on that end, for those of us who didn't see Bulls Mike...

DRtg
97: 2012 LeBron
99: 2009 LeBron
100: 1998 Mike/1996 Mike vs 2007 LeBron
101: 1988 Mike vs 2013 LeBron
102: 1997 Mike/1993 Mike/1992 Mike/1991 Mike vs 2011 LeBron/2010 LeBron

Mike 7-6, with two peak seasons being LeBron's...

Playoff DRtg
99: 2015 LeBron/2008 LeBron/2012 LeBron/2007 LeBron
100: 2009 LeBron/2016 LeBron
101: 1997 Mike/1992 Mike/1991 Mike vs 2013 LeBron
102: 1990 Mike vs 2011 LeBron

8-4 LeBron with the six highest peak DRtg's...

Career DRtg
Mike 103 (104 playoffs)
LeBron 104 (102 playoffs)

DWS
6.5: 2009 LeBron
6.2: 1996 Mike
6.1: 1988 Mike
5.7: 2007 LeBron
5.6: 1992 Mike
5.4: 1991 Mike/1998 Mike
5.3: 2011 LeBron
5.2: 1989 Mike/1993 Mike
5.0: 1987 Mike/1997 Mike

Mike 9-3, but LeBron's '09 peak higher than Mike's '88 DPOY...

Playoff DWS
1.7: 1992 Mike
1.6: 2007 LeBron/2012 LeBron
1.5: 1991 Mike/1997 Mike vs 2013 LeBron/2015 LeBron/2016 LeBron
1.4: 2011 LeBron
1.3: 1990 Mike/1996 Mike
1.2: 1989 Mike/1998 Mike vs 2008 LeBron

Top 14 playoff DWS between the two, 7-7 apiece...

Career DWS
LeBron 70.4 (15.9)*
Mike 64.1 (12.4 playoffs)

*thru 15 years like Mike, LeBron was 64.4...

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Those of you who saw Bulls Jordan play, please explain to me what made him a better defender? And point me to the video that shows Mike as a demonstrably greater defensive player?

I know this board likes to pretend that LeBron wasn't one of the greatest superstar wing defenders ever, but there's nothing I've seen, nor do the numbers support, Mike as a demonstrably greater defensive player, so my thought us that its marginal. I'm open to any link to support Mike as just unequivocally better on that end, for those of us who didn't see Bulls Mike...

DRtg
97: 2012 LeBron
99: 2009 LeBron
100: 1998 Mike/1996 Mike vs 2007 LeBron
101: 1988 Mike vs 2013 LeBron
102: 1997 Mike/1993 Mike/1992 Mike/1991 Mike vs 2011 LeBron/2010 LeBron

Mike 7-6, with two peak seasons being LeBron's...

Playoff DRtg
99: 2015 LeBron/2008 LeBron/2012 LeBron/2007 LeBron
100: 2009 LeBron/2016 LeBron
101: 1997 Mike/1992 Mike/1991 Mike vs 2013 LeBron
102: 1990 Mike vs 2011 LeBron

8-4 LeBron with the six highest peak DRtg's...

Career DRtg
Mike 103 (104 playoffs)
LeBron 104 (102 playoffs)

DWS
6.5: 2009 LeBron
6.2: 1996 Mike
6.1: 1988 Mike
5.7: 2007 LeBron
5.6: 1992 Mike
5.4: 1991 Mike/1998 Mike
5.3: 2011 LeBron
5.2: 1989 Mike/1993 Mike
5.0: 1987 Mike/1997 Mike

Mike 9-3, but LeBron's '09 peak higher than Mike's '88 DPOY...

Playoff DWS
1.7: 1992 Mike
1.6: 2007 LeBron/2012 LeBron
1.5: 1991 Mike/1997 Mike vs 2013 LeBron/2015 LeBron/2016 LeBron
1.4: 2011 LeBron
1.3: 1990 Mike/1996 Mike
1.2: 1989 Mike/1998 Mike vs 2008 LeBron

Top 14 playoff DWS between the two, 7-7 apiece...

Career DWS
LeBron 70.4 (15.9)*
Mike 64.1 (12.4 playoffs)

*thru 15 years like Mike, LeBron was 64.4...

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

LeBron is the best of all time. Jordan is the greatest of all time. There's a difference.

I think thats where I'm at today. I am allowed the opportunity to change my opinion or stance tho.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

Jordan played in an expansion era with no zone defense that added 6 teams in 8 years and stripped teams of talent. Stop it with this modern era shyt.

half those expansion teams made the playoffs