What is the exact PROOF that Lebron is a better "all-round" player than Jordan? Stats say otherwise

[How Sway?]

The only thing lebron is truly better at than mj is passing, (assists and ability to distribute in traffic and on the fly).

Maybe three point shooting, but its a different game now than in the 90s.

Every things else lebron does better is by virtue of his size.

 

[Pack2]

What comedy nikka? God damn talking to MJ stans is like.

This is exactly where I stopped reading...

You quoted my post that stated a fact....noone can compare MJ and Bron and make a statement that Bron is "much better" at 3pt shooting and that MJ was "bad"....that's the bottom line. Both statements are flat out lies.

All that other shyt is irrelevant

 

[Sunalmighty]

Let me just say I initially had your ass on ignore and I will put you on ignore again after I respond to your rubbish because you're a troll, the number 1 Bronsexual on this forum and can't debate like an adult without resorting to insults.

I just wonder with how hard you defend Lebron whether he's your daddy or something.

Lebron can retire today as one of the 5-7 best players to ever play the game. I made a thread just arguing a basic point that I think Jordan is a better all round player and you come in here like a bytch ass nikka wilin out and calling people all sorts of names.

I clearly stated this was not a "bash Lebron" thread. But you're too much of a female to be not all up in your feelings Soft ass bytch.

Now let me dismantle your retarded bullshyt and block your ass again (because you really think you're smarter than you are)

Bolded addressed:

(1) You clearly don't know how man to man defense works in the NBA. Jordan ALWAYS had a help defender on him in the 80's because he was getting double and triple teamed in almost every game because the maxim was. "Let someone else beat you". "We'll rather give Paxson, Pippen or Grant an open shot than Jordan beat us"

Man-to-Man Defense Guide

Here it is retardo:


Help Defense

Help defense is any defender two or more passes away from the ball and the last line of your Man-to-Man Defense.

A player in help defense should have one hand point to their opponent and the other hand points at the basketball. Using their peripheral vision, they should be able to see both man and ball at all times.

So Jordan did have help defenders on him on many occassions.

You don't even know what illegal defense was back then with man to man defense:

For decades the NBA required teams to play man-to-man defense, which meant everyone on the court had to guard someone.. You could double team one player and then recover to your man, but you could not be caught between players, guarding no one. That would be an illegal defense.


(2) The reason Jordan spoke against the Zone was because the Zone that he spoke against was actual REAL zone defense, which is something Lebron has never played against in his entire career, dumbo

When Zone was initially introduced, there was no defensive 3 second violation rule .

Defensive 3 second violation rule is :

Assessed when a member of the defending team spends more than three seconds in the free throw lane (aka "the paint") while not actively guarding an opponent.

This is what we see today in the NBA. We're all familiar with that. But that was not initially a part of Zone when it was introduced in the 2000-2001 season. This rule was only added in the FOLLOWING season of 2002-2003! That is what Jordan was talking about in that article @Mad Good Dro linked. Look at the date of the article, April 2001.

Jordan was talking about REAL ZONE. The Zone today that is played today has a

(1) defensive 3 second violation rule, making it easier for guards and small forwards to score because the paint is less crowded.

(2) no hand-checking because the NBA removed handchecking all together in 2004/05 (and after that a lot of the top scorers in the league saw their points per game go up dramatically) .These two new rules make it almost impossible to stop a very good perimiter player from driving to the rim because there is no way to steer their path off from the paint with handchecking AND when they get to the paint, it is not as conjested as before because of the 3 second rule.


In the modern era, the "zone" is even far worse There is far too much spacing between the lines because of the 3 point shot. It's impossible to build a zone against a dangerous offensive player because teams now have 2 or 3 shooters standing at the corner ready to catch and shoot.

What we have now is basically a form of MAN TO MAN defense like in Jordan's era. Only with a HUGE amount of space between the lines and no handchecking.

You're fukking crazy for even comparing today's so-called Zone to what Jordan was facing in the 80's and 90's with conjested driving lanes, handchecking and man to man , with the option to double and triple Jordan with help defense in addition to the paint being packed sometimes with multiple 7 footers due to no 3 second violation in the low post if teams' were guarding man to man with centers down there.

You just prove you know nothing about basketball everytime you type your BS. You do it to derail threads and remove the focus from Lebron any time there is even a slight discussion on him that you think in your fukking deluded mind is critical of him. You're a sad sack of shyt. Now you're blocked again after that little history lesson.

To all those interested in this topic, this video does an excellent job of explaining the rule changes from Jordan's era to today:

Body bag ...again

 

[ISO]

Body bag ...again

It's not a body bag

That idiot is talking about something completely different and not defenders ability to shade players and help off their man without committing to a double I'm not talking about strict zone alignments.

He also keeps framing offensive friendly 2020 NBA (the defenses will catch up) as LeBron's entire career or the entire modern era like the disingenous fakkit he is.

And he keeps putting me on ignore like the lil bytch he is imagine blocking someone on a forum.

Basement dwelling stuck in the 80's nikkas son

 

[The_Third_Man]

The bolded is completely idiotic. The fact you believe it to be true is

What the #s tell you is they shoot around the same %.
It also tells you their %s are right in line with the league average for their eras.
So now I'm supposed to believe if MJ played in an era where teams shot more threes and he attempted just 2 more per game that suddenly, his % drops below league average?

The same MJ who is the all time leader in PPG, most scoring titles and a legendary psycho work ethic? That logic doesn't sound flawed to you?

actually it makes sense

less shots attempts = smaller sample

thats why Tim Legler name , for example, doesn't come up often when when discussing the best shooters in the mid 90s

 

[Pack2]

actually it makes sense

less shots attempts = smaller sample

thats why Tim Legler name , for example, doesn't come up often when when discussing the best shooters in the mid 90s

Breh it doesn't make one "much better" or one "bad" when they have the same %....regardless of sample size come on yall

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

I didn’t take it as arrogance. I took it as deflecting and being defensive for no reason. They’re down, so your stats mean nothing. Why bring it up?

Also, arrogance should be used at the right times, yes pick and choose when to display it.

He came back down from 3-1 in the NBA finals the previous year. You read it as defensive. He saw it as I'm that dude so no its not a bother

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

He came back down from 3-1 in the NBA finals the previous year. You read it as defensive. He saw it as I'm that dude so no its not a bother

It is definitely being defensive. Anyway my point is, it bears no relation to the question asked, no matter how you cut it.

 

[ISO]

Jordan propaganda once again. Assist numbers doesn’t tell the whole story when it comes to passing ability. If that’s the case then Westbrook& Rondo, good passers in their own right, are better passers than Lebron. But anybody that actually watches the games instead of just checking stats on basketball reference wouldn’t hesitate is saying Lebron is a better passer than them and probably 95% of players in the history of the game. His vision is unlike anyone I’ve seen and him averaging just 7 assist doesn’t change my opinion.

Not taking anything away from Jordan, he was a good passer for a SG for that era (I’ve only just watched a bunch of Jordan games cause of this quarantine) but it’s debatable that he wasn’t even the best playmaker on his own team.

Another thing, doesn’t Jordan have a higher usage rate than Lebron? How can the ball always be in Bron’s hands if that’s the case?

Jordan was the superior scorer, superior man to man defender but Lebron was the better defender playing the ‘safety role’ more versatile as a defender due to his size and is the superior passer. If this was 2k they’d be the only players I’d rate 99 at their peak but the difference between them is a lot smaller than the pro Jordan media would have you thinking. In fact, the only thing that has me picking Jordan over Lebron is mentality. Jordan would NEVER have a 2011 finals.

Exactly. Rondo is a beast of a passer but was a ball pounder who chased assists due to his offensive limitations and Westbrook played in a system that let him jumpstart fastbreaks through uncontested rebounds and allowed him to rack up assists on the interior. Both put up gaudy assists numbers but neither are actually better passers than LeBron nor could they anchor offenses like LeBron.

LeBron isn't as ball dominant as portrayed by Jordan stans and his haters. All the possession stats are online, in his prime it was seasons the likes of D.J. Augustin and Kirk Hinrich had longer times of possession than him, he was literally nowhere near the top. LeBron never had the ball as much as MJ in the Doug Collins era.

Everything else is fair. No LeBron stan would argue LeBron is a better scorer, yet MJ stans want to insist he's a better passer. MJ isn't even a better passer than a guy like Harden or Ginobili. LeBron is a bigger, more versatile defender and at his peak was a perennial DPoY candidate yet @mbewane is talking about chasedown blocks like that man didn't excel in all aspects of defense and wasn't tasked with guarding multiple positions every night. LeBron's defense has become seriously underrated over the years just because he stopped defending at the level he once did with age. He had tougher defensive assignments and played in a tougher era to defend but even then I'd be willing to concede on-ball defense.

I also agree that Michael would never have a 2011 Finals and said many times that series pretty much disqualified him from being the "greatest".

 

[Sunalmighty]

It's not a body bag

That idiot is talking about something completely different and not defenders ability to shade players and help off their man without committing to a double I'm not talking about strict zone alignments.

He also keeps framing offensive friendly 2020 NBA (the defenses will catch up) as LeBron's entire career or the entire modern era like the disingenous fakkit he is.

And he keeps putting me on ignore like the lil bytch he is imagine blocking someone on a forum.

Basement dwelling stuck in the 80's nikkas son

bullshyt... y'all go at it like Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. Dubois

 

[acbjr22]

Im a Lebron stan but MJ is far and away the GOAT. He was a better scorer and defender easily. He wasn't a better passer though, that's bullshyt. I think LeBron James is the greatest physical talent the league has ever seen, but the difference is MJ's mentality. Dude cared about basketball above all else. He lived and breathed that shyt and his drive is like nothing I have ever. Most people, myself and Lebron included, don't care about anything that much outside of our families. If Lebron had MJ's mentality and drive, he would have been a better player.

 

[Fortunate Lee]

Im a Lebron stan but MJ is far and away the GOAT. He was a better scorer and defender easily. He wasn't a better passer though, that's bullshyt. I think LeBron James is the greatest physical talent the league has ever seen, but the difference is MJ's mentality. Dude cared about basketball above all else. He lived and breathed that shyt and his drive is like nothing I have ever. Most people, myself and Lebron included, don't care about anything that much outside of our families. If Lebron had MJ's mentality and drive, he would have been a better player.

Wrong. Imagine getting a 100M deal at age 18; most people would probably mail it in. He’s still a top 3 player 18 years after that contract.


So if Bron didn’t have a huge love for the game, he would’ve been Darius Miles status by now. But he clearly loves basketball to death. You are confusing passion for the game with method.

“Bron is the most disciplined player of all time”

that’s a Draymond Green quote

 

[Gangstar8]

LeBron is a stat padder ball hog
He isn't all round player or anything

 

[Sunalmighty]

LeBron is a stat padder ball hog
He isn't all round player or anything

 

[Dwight Howard]

LeBron had a stretch playing PG when Mo Williams went down in 2010 and averaged like 30 points and 12 assists this is no cap

When has lebron EVER not play

at Oakley stopping LeBron from rebounding

Tyson Chandler sure did