What is the exact PROOF that Lebron is a better "all-round" player than Jordan? Stats say otherwise

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Zone defense

Wow you read my mind and posted that video before me The thing is that video does not even address def 3 second violation only handchecking but thats enough to prove this "zone defense" BS.

@ISO 's job is to sidetrack threads when his daddy Lebron is feeling the heat. Newsflash. Lebron doesn't give a fukk about you. There are some good Lebron fans on this forum but you're the worst bronsexual on here.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Jordan didn’t always have a fukking help defender on him everyone literally just watched the ‘98 Finals and stop acting like he was getting double and triple teamed all game. All the footage is online.

I’m not even gonna bother the rest of that long ass bullshyt you typed out.

Of course you can't respond to it because that's the truth. You watch the 1998 finals, the era of the slowest pace in NBA history and you think you're a Jordan expert? I've watched more Jordan games than you've probably watched GAMES. Period. GTFOH

 

[ISO]

Y’all really gonna take fukking gimmick zone defenses that teams use literally a couple possessions per game, as some game breaking hinderance to fukking Jordan

The majority of posters here don’t understand zones or how teams defend today.

Posters go as far as to say only a few teams play or teams barely play it. It’s not true. The Raptors are the most zoning team in basketball they use it in every single game and won a title with it.

 

[Professor K.]

Expansion era:

Some of the best teams Jordan had to beat were expansion team. Orlando and Miami were expansion teams that won in excess of 60+ games and Orlando was ridiculously stacked.

"Zone" is nonsense in this era of 3 ball. There is far too much space between the lines for zone defense to be reliable. Teams in today's NBA play man to man just because of the insane spacing. Its basically man to man like in Jordan's era today. But without handchecking and with the new defensive 3 second violation rule

You're just repeating myths. But "intelligent" response to the thread i guess:

nikkas parrot that logic without a second thought to who actually played for these squads

I ain't got shyt else to do right now so let's break down who the expansion teams took to "strip teams of talent"

Players worth half a shyt drafted in expansion drafts:
88- Dell Curry and Muggsy Bogues
89- Rick Mahorn, Reggie Theus, and Tyrone Corbin
95- BJ Armstrong, Greg Anthony, and Jerome Kersey

who on that list is tipping the scales of shyt? Rep for whoever can tell me what teams got "stripped" of these nikkas' talents

Through the draft, if you drop any expansion team's pick of an All-Star to the next team behind them from 88-97:

Glen Rice to Chicago
Larry Johnson to New Jersey
Steve Smith to Dallas
Shaq to Dallas
Alonzo Mourning to Denver
Laettner to Washington
C-Webb/Penny to Philly
KG to Portland
Shareef Abdur Rahim to Milwaukee
Tracy McGrady to Milwaukee

Which one of these picks makes that team a bigger challenge to Jordan(or Hakeem for that matter) than Orlando was?


Expansion teams did put more scrubs in the league, but most of those scrubs were on those expansion teams or other futile franchises. None of them crippled a contender. You put the 12 best players from those 4-6 expansion squads on the same team any given year during the 3-peats and they're still not beating the Bulls

 

[ISO]

Wow you read my mind and posted that video before me The thing is that video does not even address def 3 second violation only handchecking but thats enough to prove this "zone defense" BS.

@ISO 's job is to sidetrack threads when his daddy Lebron is feeling the heat. Newsflash. Lebron doesn't give a fukk about you. There are some good Lebron fans on this forum but you're the worst bronsexual on here.

I be on you because you’re one of the W.O.A.T.’s all you do is slob Jordan and take consistent shots at today’s game. I question why you even watch modern basketball you have all the Jordan VHS tapes in the world just stick to that.

Ole Jordan is such an intelligent guy ass

How many Jordan threads are you going to make? How many anti-LeBron threads are you going to make? It’s sick at this point y’all nikkas are polluting the forum with this bullshyt to the point it’s lil else to talk about.

U miss nuance and context in damn near every debate. It’s why you can’t understand simple shyt like why LeBron or Wade would average more steals and blocks in the 80’s. U don’t understand zones or really much of how basketball is today, it’s clear you despise the product.

U just want to compare stats across eras and disregard the word of people who actually covered that era or competed in that era. Magic Johnson is wrong. Jay Bilas is wrong. Doc Rivers is wrong. Pat Riley is a liar. Dan Patrick who cares he’s just an old man. But you’re right because you can stat crunch and seen some Mike games on YouTube.



U just said Michael Jordan is a better passer than LeBron and are tying to rationalize the shyt. Nobody would ever say that shyt. Might as well say MJ is the greatest passer ever.

I have never deified LeBron he’s human and has failed. But you MJ dikksuckers are a different breed with this non-sense that MJ would average 50 a game as if he a mere mortal is so far ahead of those guys that came after him.

It’s nothing worse than a stuck in the past ass dikk riding ass nikka.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

nikkas parrot that logic without a second thought to who actually played for these squads

I ain't got shyt else to do right now so let's break down who the expansion teams took to "strip teams of talent"

Players worth half a shyt drafted in expansion drafts:
88- Dell Curry and Muggsy Bogues
89- Rick Mahorn, Reggie Theus, and Tyrone Corbin
95- BJ Armstrong, Greg Anthony, and Jerome Kersey

who on that list is tipping the scales of shyt? Rep for whoever can tell me what teams got "stripped" of these nikkas' talents

Through the draft, if you drop any expansion team's pick of an All-Star to the next team behind them from 88-97:

Glen Rice to Chicago
Larry Johnson to New Jersey
Steve Smith to Dallas
Shaq to Dallas
Alonzo Mourning to Denver
Laettner to Washington
C-Webb/Penny to Philly
KG to Portland
Shareef Abdur Rahim to Milwaukee
Tracy McGrady to Milwaukee

Which one of these picks makes that team a bigger challenge to Jordan(or Hakeem for that matter) than Orlando was?


Expansion teams did put more scrubs in the league, but most of those scrubs were on those expansion teams or other futile franchises. None of them crippled a contender. You put the 12 best players from those 4-6 expansion squads on the same team any given year during the 3-peats and they're still not beating the Bulls

Pretty much. Basketball is the sport with the most amount of myths perpetuated and has the worst fanboys as well. Notice how those two bronsexuals did not even attempt to address the main post of the thread. Just sidetracked to side issues. "Oh what about Jordan !!! "

 

[Long Live The Kane]

The majority of posters here don’t understand zones or how teams defend today.

Posters go as far as to say only a few teams play or teams barely play it. It’s not true. The Raptors are the most zoning team in basketball they use it in every single game and won a title with it.

On average, NBA teams play zone d for 5 possessions per game....the raptors are one of the teams that use it most, and indeed won a chip using it in spots during the finals...but the fact the warriors were missing a GOAT level creative iso scorer who has mastered the in between game and improvising out of busted sets, with KD sitting on the bench in a suit damn near the entire series, has a million times more to do with the raptors winning a chip than the couple possessions they broke out a zone

Jordan would wipe his ass with Toronto's defense just like KD did the quarter or so he was out there...the way y'all are hanging on to any and every minute fukking change in the game and acting it'd be kryptonite to MJ of all people is bordering on pathetic ...in a worst case scenario and he has a bad shooting night, it'd be just that a bad shooting night, and he wouldn't tuck himself in a blanky and check out of the series like prime Bron when the mavs threw a zone at him in the first heatles finals

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Notice how all the bronsexuals are 1 starring this thread Because they have no sound rebuttal. You'll think reasonable and rational Lebron fans will be on here trying to debate against it and make valid arguments , YET the only thing seen here is angry , pitchfork carrying Bronsexuals worried the only vestige of argument that Lebron has over Jordan is an absolute myth and is straight garbage.

So its "What about Jordan !! " "What about zoneee!!"

 

[ISO]

On average, NBA teams play zone d for 5 possessions per game....

Dog this is just false.

KD wiped his ass with them? It was C&S jumpers early in the game. KD is on the Warriors he was there specifically to play in spacing and ball movement and to duck the defensive attention and zones.

And yeah the Raptors won because KD wasn’t there. They are a ridiculously talented team even without KD they are capable of winning.

Go watch KD against Dallas in 2011 against zone or Memphis in 2013 in the playoffs.

See this is where y’all go to the extreme nobody says MJ wouldn’t be nice today. It’s that his 80’s efficiency numbers and really any 80’s scorers numbers should never be compared to modern scorers across eras.

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Dog this is just false.

And KD wiped his ass with them? It was C&S jumpers early in the game. KD is on the Warriors he was there specifically to play in spacing and ball movement and to duck the defensive attention and zones.

Go watch KD against Dallas in 2011 against zone or Memphis in the playoffs

See this is where y’all go to the extreme nobody says MJ wouldn’t be nice today. It’s that his 80’s efficiency numbers and really any 80’s scorers numbers should never be compared to modern scorers across eras.

You’re right, it’s actually far less than that....5 possessions of zone defense per game (both teams combined)...that teams actually perform BETTER against on average than otherwise

Friday's notebook: Zone defense usage is up, but teams have solutions | NBA.com

There have been about five possessions of zone defense per game this season. That may not seem like a lot, but it's more than six times as many as there were in '17-18 season and up from 3.1 possessions per game last season.

According to Synergy, offenses have been more efficient against zone (0.99 points per possession) than against man-to-man (0.96). But some teams have been more successful with it than others.

Your second part is fine to me...let’s just not compare players across eras at all, and only compare them to their peers and what they did during their eras (where surprise, MJ’s dominance and Bron’s aren’t comparable)...I’m just gonna wanna stop seeing y’all running in every Jordan thread talmbout “bu bu but the ZONE THO!! “...all the while Giannis, Harden and Luka etc are literally having all time great efficiency numbers right now doing nothing but hogging the ball for every possession

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

You’re right, it’s actually far less than that....5 possessions of zone defense per game (both teams combined)...that teams actually perform BETTER against on average than otherwise

Friday's notebook: Zone defense usage is up, but teams have solutions | NBA.com

There have been about five possessions of zone defense per game this season. That may not seem like a lot, but it's more than six times as many as there were in '17-18 season and up from 3.1 possessions per game last season.

According to Synergy, offenses have been more efficient against zone (0.99 points per possession) than against man-to-man (0.96). But some teams have been more successful with it than others.

Your second part is fine to me...let’s just not compare players across eras at all, and only compare them to their peers and what they did during their eras (where surprise, MJ’s dominance and Bron’s aren’t comparable)...I’m just gonna wanna stop seeing y’all running in every Jordan thread talmbout “bu bu but the ZONE THO!! “...all the while Giannis, Harden and Luka etc are literally having all time great efficiency numbers right now doing nothing but hogging the ball for every possession

Trae Young is averaging 29 and 9 right now Doncic was averaging 30/10/10

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

You’re right, it’s actually far less than that....5 possessions of zone defense per game (both teams combined)...that teams actually perform BETTER against on average than otherwise

Friday's notebook: Zone defense usage is up, but teams have solutions | NBA.com

There have been about five possessions of zone defense per game this season. That may not seem like a lot, but it's more than six times as many as there were in '17-18 season and up from 3.1 possessions per game last season.

According to Synergy, offenses have been more efficient against zone (0.99 points per possession) than against man-to-man (0.96). But some teams have been more successful with it than others.

Your second part is fine to me...let’s just not compare players across eras at all, and only compare them to their peers and what they did during their eras (where surprise, MJ’s dominance and Bron’s aren’t comparable)...I’m just gonna wanna stop seeing y’all running in every Jordan thread talmbout “bu bu but the ZONE THO!! “...all the while Giannis, Harden and Luka etc are literally having all time great efficiency numbers right now doing nothing but hogging the ball for every possession

That's a good post right there

 

[ISO]

You’re right, it’s actually far less than that....5 possessions of zone defense per game (both teams combined)...that teams actually perform BETTER against on average than otherwise

Friday's notebook: Zone defense usage is up, but teams have solutions | NBA.com

There have been about five possessions of zone defense per game this season. That may not seem like a lot, but it's more than six times as many as there were in '17-18 season and up from 3.1 possessions per game last season.

According to Synergy, offenses have been more efficient against zone (0.99 points per possession) than against man-to-man (0.96). But some teams have been more successful with it than others.

Your second part is fine to me...let’s just not compare players across eras at all, and only compare them to their peers and what they did during their eras (where surprise, MJ’s dominance and Bron’s aren’t comparable)...I’m just gonna wanna stop seeing y’all running in every Jordan thread talmbout “bu bu but the ZONE THO!! “...all the while Giannis, Harden and Luka etc are literally having all time great efficiency numbers right now doing nothing but hogging the ball for every possession

That's proper zone alignments I'm talking about opposing defenses having defenders roam off their man defending spots on the floor, digging down as a player makes an offensive move without necessairily guarding someone, shading your man, hedging and going half way when a player is in isolation or in the post shyt like that not necessairily lining up in a 2-3 or in a 1-3-1 and this is the disconnect every single time this discussion is had.

The other thing is that when you compare LeBron to MJ, it's disingenous to frame LeBron's entire career in the pace and space era on the downside of his career which is what OP always does.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Scoring and defense anyways>>>

But if Jordan kept playing like he did in 87-89 he’d have less wins with better stats.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

You’re right, it’s actually far less than that....5 possessions of zone defense per game (both teams combined)...that teams actually perform BETTER against on average than otherwise

Friday's notebook: Zone defense usage is up, but teams have solutions | NBA.com

There have been about five possessions of zone defense per game this season. That may not seem like a lot, but it's more than six times as many as there were in '17-18 season and up from 3.1 possessions per game last season.

According to Synergy, offenses have been more efficient against zone (0.99 points per possession) than against man-to-man (0.96). But some teams have been more successful with it than others.

Your second part is fine to me...let’s just not compare players across eras at all, and only compare them to their peers and what they did during their eras (where surprise, MJ’s dominance and Bron’s aren’t comparable)...I’m just gonna wanna stop seeing y’all running in every Jordan thread talmbout “bu bu but the ZONE THO!! “...all the while Giannis, Harden and Luka etc are literally having all time great efficiency numbers right now doing nothing but hogging the ball for every possession

Zone arguments got destroyed when they went to freedom of movement. Add the spacing and increased pace and here we are. Crazy offense.