What is the exact PROOF that Lebron is a better "all-round" player than Jordan? Stats say otherwise

[ISO]

@ISO Lebron over the last 4 years has played in an NBA with a higher pace than anytime in MJ's career. Jordan spent most of his championship winning years in the lowest pace era in NBA history :

LeBron’s career didn’t begin in 2016. His career began in 2003 in the middle of the dead ball era.

The totality of LeBron (and Kobe’s) career was spent in a generally slower paced era with zone defenses. They both faced stronger defenses.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

It’s funny cuz young Shaq and Orlando is probably the only top 15 player under 30 Jordan faced and beat in his prime. and even then he couldn’t beat them until they added the Goat rebounder and a top 10 all time defender on top of an already stacked defensive roster.

Meanwhile lebron has battled KD, Steph and Kawhi AND Duncan in Their prime most of his career and has beaten all of them in a finals.

Jordan cried about zone and illegal defense to the league and got the rules changes and admitted that he wouldn’t have had the career he did without those changes.:
“It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.” IF ZONE DEFENSES COME IN, STARS MAY GO OUT



So Jordan was 1-9 and getting his ass whooped yearly in the 80s before it took the expansion era AND illegal defense AND zone that he cried for being banned , AND the lakers, Celtics and Pistons becoming old and injured. Before he started winning. That’s yall GOAT?

This is a typical bronsexual argument. No nuance whatsoever. Poor argumentation. Nothing against you personally, but when you're so loyal to a player and all but worship him, you have to result to such bad points.

So much so that the quote you presented was from Jordan's Wizard's years.

Also, Jordan never benefited from any changes to rules in Zone defense. Removal of Hand checking and the change to the defensive 3 second violation rule all came AFTER Jordan had retired from the NBA. If anything, its Lebron that benefited from all the new rules that made it easier for offensive players to score.

 

[Mad Good Dro]

This is a typical bronsexual argument. No nuance whatsoever. Poor argumentation. Nothing against you personally, but when you're so loyal to a player and all but worship him, you have to result to such bad points.

So much so that the quote you presented was from Jordan's Wizard's years.

Also, Jordan never benefited from any changes to rules in Zone defense. Removal of Hand checking and the change to the defensive 3 second violation rule all came AFTER Jordan had retired from the NBA. If anything, its Lebron that benefited from all the new rules that made it easier for offensive players to score.

Bro Jordan himself said he wouldn’t have been as good if zone defense was allowed in his Era. Did you read the article?

 

[staticshock]

Think ima order some pizza tonight. What y’all eating?

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Bro Jordan himself said he wouldn’t have been as good if zone defense was allowed in his Era. Did you read the article?

What is being played today is not really Zone. There is far too much spacing now for any consistent zone to be played.

Real zone was only played in the NBA from the 2001-2002 to the 2003-04 season. Ironically, the era Jordan played with the Wizards. Everything else after that is not real Zone because it was softened considerably to help the offensive player, especially with removal of handchecking.

 

[ISO]

Bro Jordan himself said he wouldn’t have been as good if zone defense was allowed in his Era. Did you read the article?

It’s common sense that facing man to man defense in isolation and in the midpost for a scorer like Jordan his whole career helped him. He didn’t have roaming help defenders and people guarding spots on the floor.

The ‘98 Finals just aired on ESPN, this was all on full display. Three illegal defense calls in the 1st quarter alone and MJ getting one-on-ones with Bryon Russell and Jeff Hornacek throughout.

MJ spoke against the zone at the NBA’s competition committee so many NBA stars have spoken against the zone but the Jordan stan knows more.

It’s literally common sense that having a formatted defensive game plan in addition to a scouting report of player tendencies and a strong man defender limits a player more.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

The majority of Jordan’s career was in the triangle, his all around stat padding was useless and counterproductive to the triangle. Lebron’s offenses revolved solely around him. Which is why stats are subjective and need to be put in context when comparing them.

“Look at what happens when Bron’s not on the floor!!!”

“Where is the fukking point guard through all of this then?”

 

[Pimp]

Expansion era:

Some of the best teams Jordan had to beat were expansion team. Orlando and Miami were expansion teams that won in excess of 60+ games and Orlando was ridiculously stacked.

"Zone" is nonsense in this era of 3 ball. There is far too much space between the lines for zone defense to be reliable. Teams in today's NBA play man to man just because of the insane spacing. Its basically man to man like in Jordan's era today. But without handchecking and with the new defensive 3 second violation rule

You're just repeating myths. But "intelligent" response to the thread i guess:

Zone defense doesn't work but these guys swear it's good. It basically leaves 3pt shooters wide open.

 

[ISO]

What is being played today is not really Zone. There is far too much spacing now for any consistent zone to be played.

Real zone was only played in the NBA from the 2001-2002 to the 2003-04 season. Ironically, the era Jordan played with the Wizards. Everything else after that is not real Zone because it was softened considerably to help the offensive player, especially with removal of handchecking.

they’re playing fake zone now y’all

 

[Pimp]

Zone defense

 

[ISO]

Zone defense

Stop posting goofy ass videos.

Giannis got Iocked up by a zone in the playoffs last season.

MJ hated zones. KG, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan all spoke against the zone.

 

[Dwight Howard]

I'm a Kobe stan, made the thread on how Bron not even at Kareem level let alone Mike, but I'm still never gonna say some dumb shyt like this Bron is unquestionably a better passer and rebounder than Mike, and his size/athleticism combo lets him bang inside and defend larger players while still covering guards and doing perimeter stuff. That's what makes Bron so "rounded"

It doesn't make him better, but his versatility is maybe unprecedented

What makes Mike greater is his superior scoring, mentality, and defense.

There is a difference between passing ability and willingness to pass. Jordan trusted himself over teammates in most scenarios, and it paid off. Jordan already showed he could average double digit assist over a prolonged period of time if he put his focus into it. Jordan's game also wasnt dependent on shooters or spacing. Cant really compare.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

It’s common sense that facing man to man defense in isolation and in the midpost for a scorer like Jordan his whole career helped him. He didn’t have roaming help defenders and people guarding spots on the floor.

The ‘98 Finals just aired on ESPN, this was all on full display. Three illegal defense calls in the 1st quarter alone and MJ getting one-on-ones with Bryon Russell and Jeff Hornacek throughout.

MJ spoke against the zone at the NBA’s competition committee so many NBA stars have spoken against the zone but the Jordan stan knows more.

It’s literally common sense that having a formatted defensive game plan in addition to a scouting report of player tendencies and a strong man defender limits a player more.

Let me just say I initially had your ass on ignore and I will put you on ignore again after I respond to your rubbish because you're a troll, the number 1 Bronsexual on this forum and can't debate like an adult without resorting to insults.

I just wonder with how hard you defend Lebron whether he's your daddy or something.

Lebron can retire today as one of the 5-7 best players to ever play the game. I made a thread just arguing a basic point that I think Jordan is a better all round player and you come in here like a bytch ass nikka wilin out and calling people all sorts of names.

I clearly stated this was not a "bash Lebron" thread. But you're too much of a female to be not all up in your feelings Soft ass bytch.

Now let me dismantle your retarded bullshyt and block your ass again (because you really think you're smarter than you are)

Bolded addressed:

(1) You clearly don't know how man to man defense works in the NBA. Jordan ALWAYS had a help defender on him in the 80's because he was getting double and triple teamed in almost every game because the maxim was. "Let someone else beat you". "We'll rather give Paxson, Pippen or Grant an open shot than Jordan beat us"

Man-to-Man Defense Guide

Here it is retardo:


Help Defense

Help defense is any defender two or more passes away from the ball and the last line of your Man-to-Man Defense.

A player in help defense should have one hand point to their opponent and the other hand points at the basketball. Using their peripheral vision, they should be able to see both man and ball at all times.

So Jordan did have help defenders on him on many occassions.

You don't even know what illegal defense was back then with man to man defense:

For decades the NBA required teams to play man-to-man defense, which meant everyone on the court had to guard someone.. You could double team one player and then recover to your man, but you could not be caught between players, guarding no one. That would be an illegal defense.


(2) The reason Jordan spoke against the Zone was because the Zone that he spoke against was actual REAL zone defense, which is something Lebron has never played against in his entire career, dumbo

When Zone was initially introduced, there was no defensive 3 second violation rule .

Defensive 3 second violation rule is :

Assessed when a member of the defending team spends more than three seconds in the free throw lane (aka "the paint") while not actively guarding an opponent.

This is what we see today in the NBA. We're all familiar with that. But that was not initially a part of Zone when it was introduced in the 2000-2001 season. This rule was only added in the FOLLOWING season of 2002-2003! That is what Jordan was talking about in that article @Mad Good Dro linked. Look at the date of the article, April 2001.

Jordan was talking about REAL ZONE. The Zone today that is played today has a

(1) defensive 3 second violation rule, making it easier for guards and small forwards to score because the paint is less crowded.

(2) no hand-checking because the NBA removed handchecking all together in 2004/05 (and after that a lot of the top scorers in the league saw their points per game go up dramatically) .These two new rules make it almost impossible to stop a very good perimiter player from driving to the rim because there is no way to steer their path off from the paint with handchecking AND when they get to the paint, it is not as conjested as before because of the 3 second rule.


In the modern era, the "zone" is even far worse There is far too much spacing between the lines because of the 3 point shot. It's impossible to build a zone against a dangerous offensive player because teams now have 2 or 3 shooters standing at the corner ready to catch and shoot.

What we have now is basically a form of MAN TO MAN defense like in Jordan's era. Only with a HUGE amount of space between the lines and no handchecking.

You're fukking crazy for even comparing today's so-called Zone to what Jordan was facing in the 80's and 90's with conjested driving lanes, handchecking and man to man , with the option to double and triple Jordan with help defense in addition to the paint being packed sometimes with multiple 7 footers due to no 3 second violation in the low post if teams' were guarding man to man with centers down there.

You just prove you know nothing about basketball everytime you type your BS. You do it to derail threads and remove the focus from Lebron any time there is even a slight discussion on him that you think in your fukking deluded mind is critical of him. You're a sad sack of shyt. Now you're blocked again after that little history lesson.

To all those interested in this topic, this video does an excellent job of explaining the rule changes from Jordan's era to today:

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Y’all really gonna take fukking gimmick zone defenses that teams use literally a couple possessions per game, as some game breaking hinderance to fukking Jordan

 

[ISO]

Let me just say I initially had your ass on ignore and I will put you on ignore again after I respond to your rubbish because you're a troll, the number 1 Bronsexual on this forum and can't debate like an adult without resorting to insults.

I just wonder with how hard you defend Lebron whether he's your daddy or something.

Lebron can retire today as one of the 5-7 best players to ever play the game. I made a thread just arguing a basic point that I think Jordan is a better all round player and you come in here like a bytch ass nikka wilin out and calling people all sorts of names.

I clearly stated this was not a "bash Lebron" thread. But you're too much of a female to be not all up in your feelings Soft ass bytch.

Now let me dismantle your retarded bullshyt and block your ass again (because you really think you're smarter than you are)

Bolded addressed:

(1) You clearly don't know how man to man defense works in the NBA. Jordan ALWAYS had a help defender on him in the 80's because he was getting double and triple teamed in almost every game because the maxim was. "Let someone else beat you". "We'll rather give Paxson, Pippen or Grant an open shot than Jordan beat us"

Man-to-Man Defense Guide

Here it is retardo:


Help Defense

Help defense is any defender two or more passes away from the ball and the last line of your Man-to-Man Defense.

A player in help defense should have one hand point to their opponent and the other hand points at the basketball. Using their peripheral vision, they should be able to see both man and ball at all times.

So Jordan did have help defenders on him on many occassions.

You don't even know what illegal defense was back then with man to man defense:

For decades the NBA required teams to play man-to-man defense, which meant everyone on the court had to guard someone.. You could double team one player and then recover to your man, but you could not be caught between players, guarding no one. That would be an illegal defense.


(2) The reason Jordan spoke against the Zone was because the Zone that he spoke against was actual REAL zone defense, which is something Lebron has never played against in his entire career, dumbo

When Zone was initially introduced, there was no defensive 3 second violation rule .

Defensive 3 second violation rule is :

Assessed when a member of the defending team spends more than three seconds in the free throw lane (aka "the paint") while not actively guarding an opponent.

This is what we see today in the NBA. We're all familiar with that. But that was not initially a part of Zone when it was introduced in the 2000-2001 season. This rule was only added in the FOLLOWING season of 2002-2003! That is what Jordan was talking about in that article @Mad Good Dro linked. Look at the date of the article, April 2001.

Jordan was talking about REAL ZONE. The Zone today that is played today has a

(1) defensive 3 second violation rule, making it easier for guards and small forwards to score because the paint is emptier

(2) no hand-checking because the NBA removed handchecking all together in 2004/05 (and after that a lot of the top scorers in the league saw their points per game go up dramatically) .These two new rules make it almost impossible to stop a very good perimiter player from driving to the rim because there is no way to steer their path off from the paint with handchecking AND when they get to the paint, it is not as conjested as before because of the 3 second rule.


In the modern era, the "zone" is even far worse There is far too much spacing between the lines because of the 3 point shot. It's impossible to build a zone against a dangerous offensive player because teams now have 2 or 3 shooters standing at the corner ready to catch and shoot.

What we have now is basically a form of MAN TO MAN defense like in Jordan's era. Only with a HUGE amount of space between the lines and no handchecking.

You're fukking crazy for even comparing today's so-called Zone to what Jordan was facing in the 80's and 90's with conjested driving lanes, handchecking and man to man , with the option to double and triple Jordan with help defense.

You just prove you know nothing about basketball everytime you type your BS. You do it to derail threads and remove the focus from Lebron any time there is even a slight discussion on him that you think in your fukking deluded mind is critical of him. You're a sad sack of shyt. Now you're blocked again after that little history lesson.

Jordan didn’t always have a fukking help defender on him everyone literally just watched the ‘98 Finals and stop acting like he was getting double and triple teamed all game. All the footage is online.

I’m not even gonna bother with the rest of that long ass bullshyt you typed out.