We need to have a serious discussion about the IGNORANT nature of BROOKLYN nikkas

[HarlemHottie]

It's not a West Indian thing which is why people like Tariq Nasheed piss me off with that jumping girl situation in my hood, you put the lowest paid people in one are, one skin color they gonna wild out regardless.

Interesting that you'd frame it as a class issue when there are dirt poor ados enclaves all over the country not on that kinda time. Before i posted, the argument was leaning toward "cultural" problems. Then I ask which culture and now nobody knows what im talking about. Old folks were not listening to Tariq nasheed.

Don't claim a borough if you not willing to claim the dirt. Is brooklyn's black population not majority foreign? Wasnt this whole thread about how are "psycho" nikkas be out here in particular? 1+1=2. I fully claim Harlem and yes, i know who nicky barnes was and where he came from bc my grandfather served him meals (chef).

* The difference between wi's of the Harlem renaissance era and those arriving later are numerous. 1. Immigrants act different when they are few vs when they are many. (See: current Mexicans) 2. Assimilating into an already established population of on code ados is not at all similar to establishing new communities, esp not post integration. 3. Iirc, the immigration reqs changed post 1965 immigration act, allowing more impoverished black immigrants.

4. This is my own theory: much like sheltered kids at college or on spring break, i believe ppl generally show out first and second gen in a new place, cuz they grandmama ain't there, either to witness the bad behavior or get touched. You see it in the first few ados gens after the great migration, or when white folks originally left the east coast and moved west. I think thats what happened in bk in the 80s and 90s. Ados had it earlier.

5. You think im making the 'inherently violent' argument, but its slightly more nuanced. Time and place matters. The historians say that the black experience in the islands during slavery tended to be more brutal. Do you think that had no effect on their socialization?

 

[RTF]

Where in Brooklyn?

Cause I was in London in November 2019 staying at a place in Queens Gate and I know that's not London for real

Outside of being robbed for your phone or talking wild And getting beaten up. London is a safe place for proper adults. It’s the young boys 13-20 that are doing the super wild stuff out in the open.
I wasn’t walking around loads tho. We had things to do we got the subway or an uber. A lot of these stories you really need to live.

I stayed in Bushwick, knickerbocker(sp?) ave. loads of Dominican looking folks around there. Got a really great haircut nearby.

 

[RealCrownHeights]

I always say this when people try to claim hip hop came from the west Indies just because a lot of the people had Caribbean backgrounds. A Jamaicans history is not the same as a Haitian or a trini

As far as the crime thing, it is sort of true. During the Harlem renaissance era, caribbeans that came were more of the educated, upper class. After that blacks couldn't come to the country so easy until after the 1965 civil rights immigration act. This allowed more working class people to live here, and they were more quick to react with violence

Look at the movie "marked for death", and even I heard a song about a Jamaican going to the states making Jamaica look bad. The hand was so string with them, we started calling ourselves posses, Jamaicans loved westerns, and that is where the "posse" name came from

But a lot got deported in the 90's, along with cocaine use going down, which explains the crime rate dropping. It's not West Indians in General, just a certain type who had very little skill to get money, so crime is their only way to get real money

Here is an article on it
Immigrants Look Outside New York for Better Life (Published 1990)

Btw, I'm with you on this but PLEASE let's not rewrite history and turn Malcolm X into a West Indian when he was the epitome of his ADOS father, and he grew up in Jim Crow America. By not acknowledging these important points, you downplay the very things that made Malcolm Little turn into Malcolm X

But, I like your posts so don't take that as an attack. Peace to you!

Peace, I receive your post and I def don't take it as an attack. You're right West Indians do love westerns and Jamaican's did play a large part in the violence and crime.You are also right about them allowing certain West Indians here:

"More importantly, the efforts of indigenous blacks always failed when trying anything based in race pride-three outstanding examples being the National Negro Academy, the Niagra Movement, and the AfroAmerican League. Those organizations, such as the Urban League and the N.A.A.C.P., in coalition with and dominated by whites, were oflow visibility and viability until after the Garvey Movement declined and really did not take off until after World War I. Generally speaking then, the effective leadership of Washington was indeed accommodationist, and so was the psychology of the majority of blacks. In the case of the assertive leadership of Du Bois, Turner, and 3 Walter: West Indian Immigrants: Those Arrogant b*stards Published by ScholarWorks@UMass Amherst, 1981 20 John C. Walter Trotter, they all had the common failing of no effective following. It is my contention (amply documented elsewhere) that the psychology of the black American, leaders and followers, in the very large majority was one of hesitancy during this period, and what was required, if not desired, was leadership that instilled pride in the ancestry of race, and formulated and pushed radical programs for improving the race's posterity. The West Indians came ably equipped to do this. For one thing, the West Indian immigrant was always literate, and a large number of them were of an educational level approximating the "talented tenth" that Du Bois so passionately desired. 9 As Maldwyn Jones has pointed out in his book, American Immigration, the West Indian in greater part usually had a skill which, until 1924, endeared him to the Immigration Department. 10 This is important because this made him the dual purpose person that both Du Bois and Washington desired. More importantly, those West Indians of primary education usually sought to improve it, and they had a tendency to seek out the lucrative professions. A further example is, by 1930,40 per cent ofthe M.D.s in Who's Who in Colored America were West Indians, while West Indians accounted for between only 1.2 and 1.5 per cent of the population. 11 But most important was the West Indian's self contempt. Dr. Carter G. Woodson, the distinguished Afro-American historian, noted in 1931 that on landing, the West Indian felt himself to be the equal of any man. 12 For the West Indian migrant, particularly those of British background, American whites were unpolished, crude, lacking in culture and manners, and not to be taken seriously at the social level. This view bolstered the firm feeling of high individual worth of the West Indian, and consequently, no one could convince him that skin color made him inferior. Even Garvey-as a self-confessed victim of racial slurs in his own Jamaica-did not see himself as inferior to anyone, but as a superior individual. "-

https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=cibs

But even in your article: "In the mid-80's, the police in Jamaica cracked down on violent gangs in the slums of Kingston. Many gang members fled to the United States, where they formed new gangs. The gang members who moved to Brooklyn and Harlem altered the reputation of the Caribbean community, which had been known as hard-working and law-abiding, said some people of Caribbean descent." They sent a lot of criminals but let's not act like the area was roses and peaches before they got there, they just added and made it worse.

Also,I did not mean to downplay Malcolm X at all. He is half ADOS half West Indian but his primary focus and goal was the benefit of Ados and people in America and then all of black people. I was just showing some examples of West Indian achievement.

 

[truth2you]

Interesting that you'd frame it as a class issue when there are dirt poor ados enclaves all over the country not on that kinda time. Before i posted, the argument was leaning toward "cultural" problems. Then I ask which culture and now nobody knows what im talking about. Old folks were not listening to Tariq nasheed.

Don't claim a borough if you not willing to claim the dirt. Is brooklyn's black population not majority foreign? Wasnt this whole thread about how are "psycho" nikkas be out here in particular? 1+1=2. I fully claim Harlem and yes, i know who nicky barnes was and where he came from bc my grandfather served him meals (chef).

* The difference between wi's of the Harlem renaissance era and those arriving later are numerous. 1. Immigrants act different when they are few vs when they are many. (See: current Mexicans) 2. Assimilating into an already established population of on code ados is not at all similar to establishing new communities, esp not post integration. 3. Iirc, the immigration reqs changed post 1965 immigration act, allowing more impoverished black immigrants.

4. This is my own theory: much like sheltered kids at college or on spring break, i believe ppl generally show out first and second gen in a new place, cuz they grandmama ain't there, either to witness the bad behavior or get touched. You see it in the first few ados gens after the great migration, or when white folks originally left the east coast and moved west. I think thats what happened in bk in the 80s and 90s. Ados had it earlier.

5. You think im making the 'inherently violent' argument, but its slightly more nuanced. Time and place matters. The historians say that the black experience in the islands during slavery tended to be more brutal. Do you think that had no effect on their socialization?

I wouldn't say it's being West Indian, because in the 80's, and 90's, Brooklyn was mostly ADOS but shyt was still real

I'm from Brooklyn, and raised in that era, so from what I seen it was the fact that Brooklyn has the most people, the most poor people(next to the Bronx), and its very dense. This means even if your little area is nice, chances are you still go to school with kids who deal with gangs, drugs, and other criminal activity. This increases your chances of doing it too because when you're young, just being rebellious is fun. If your friends want yo go boosting, you might do it too. If you see somebody get props for carrying a gun, you will probably do it. The difference between before the mid 80s, and after, guns weren't around as much before the mid 80s. Once guns were everywhere, all types were shooting. I remember the first time I held a gun. I was walking with my friends, one pulled it out, and showed us. Once he let me hold it, these guys drive by us in a car looking hard, and tge fact that i knew I could stop all that hard shyt by just showing the hammer made me feel like God!

Its a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is

And it ain't all bad. When it comes to black excellence, Downtown Brooklyn around Lafayette avenue was the shyt. Spike Lee, and other artistic people lived over there. Just like we had hood shyt, we had black excellence, and all lived right next to each other!

 

[ISO]

Also Pandemic made it worse, certain blocks in the Stuy where pre covid I was starting to see Isaw happy Europeans with suitcases going into air b and b's, I now see 10 blood nikkas shooting dice with Red Kufi's and red beads on, while the big ass police jouver't light around the corner illuminating the whole block.

Bus I take to my gym (I know I'm a bum for taking the bus) nikkas shot through it and hit a 70 year old women 2 hours after I took the bus

1. Stray bullet pierces MTA bus in Brooklyn, hits 70-year-old woman in face

You truly gotta have some peace of mind and strong willpower to make it here especially the hood without snapping man. This type of shyt can only inspire some creativity and use it as a funnel for your art like Chris Rock did in his perception of his life in Everybody Hates Chris or it can backfire and I'm seeing the latter

I saw Jamie Hector (Marlo from the Wire) on a stoop by Lincoln Terreace Park with what had to be at least 30 nikkas all grilling me as I walk down the street, mind you I'm 12 just going to the park. I watch the wire and know that nikka wasn't acting at all.

Growing up here and living here, still most of my family here just make me cautious and always on guard

Jamie Hector really a street nikka? I hated his acting as Marlo on The Wire

 

[ExodusNirvana]

Jamie Hector really a street nikka? I hated his acting as Marlo on The Wire

He got fam in Brooklyn

I've seen him chillin in Prospect Lefferts Gardens (ehhh Flatbush that shyt always was Flatbush to me) and over here by me chatting it up with Jeffrey Wright

 

[RealCrownHeights]

Interesting that you'd frame it as a class issue when there are dirt poor ados enclaves all over the country not on that kinda time. Before i posted, the argument was leaning toward "cultural" problems. Then I ask which culture and now nobody knows what im talking about. Old folks were not listening to Tariq nasheed.

Don't claim a borough if you not willing to claim the dirt. Is brooklyn's black population not majority foreign? Wasnt this whole thread about how are "psycho" nikkas be out here in particular? 1+1=2. I fully claim Harlem and yes, i know who nicky barnes was and where he came from bc my grandfather served him meals (chef).

* The difference between wi's of the Harlem renaissance era and those arriving later are numerous. 1. Immigrants act different when they are few vs when they are many. (See: current Mexicans) 2. Assimilating into an already established population of on code ados is not at all similar to establishing new communities, esp not post integration. 3. Iirc, the immigration reqs changed post 1965 immigration act, allowing more impoverished black immigrants.

4. This is my own theory: much like sheltered kids at college or on spring break, i believe ppl generally show out first and second gen in a new place, cuz they grandmama ain't there, either to witness the bad behavior or get touched. You see it in the first few ados gens after the great migration, or when white folks originally left the east coast and moved west. I think thats what happened in bk in the 80s and 90s. Ados had it earlier.

5. You think im making the 'inherently violent' argument, but its slightly more nuanced. Time and place matters. The historians say that the black experience in the islands during slavery tended to be more brutal. Do you think that had no effect on their socialization?

1. Lol the cultural problem you speak of is really not that different then you and others would like to believe. Guess what majority of ADOS are Christian and there are churches all over Harlem and Bed Stuy, Jamaica has more churches per square mile then anywhere on the planet-http://cbtu.ca/2010/12/tidbits-about-jamaica/#:~:text=Jamaica%20has%20the%20most%20%E2%80%9Cchurches,even%20before%20the%20United%20States. . The Rastafarian culture also pushes loving the black women and child and putting black people and black liberation at the front of everything but people only focus on the weed aspect. Now the bad man or wild out culture people are trying to pin point goes both ways. Yes, badness is put at the forefront and there is a lane and focus on gangster culture in the West Indies- Shottas (Jamaica), Zezzer (Trinidad) but I would counter that with what about Baton Rogue where I'm sure there is little West Indian people but their main rappers are Boosie, Kevin Gates and NBA Youngboy and the murder rate is extremely high. Let me tell you something the "cultural aspect" people like to throw around amounts to when I went to College and I learned people don't drink tea at night and various small other incidents.

2. Yes Brooklyn's black population is heavily West Indian whats your point? Willie Boskett is probably one of the most notorious killers in NYC history and his family traces back to South Carolina.

3. I really don't think it's that deep, I think if Harlem was not apart of Manhattan and separate from other borough's the crime would be high too, it's just people in Harlem have access to upper west side and use it's blocks away. There's no central park where you can meet a white women, we all grew up with hardly any white people. By your logic West Indians are the crazy people because of brutal slavery meanwhile nikkas in Harlem used to kill over $600 yellow coats and my Grandfather nearly had a stroke when he found out iI paid over $20 for jeans

 

[RealCrownHeights]

I wouldn't say it's being West Indian, because in the 80's, and 90's, Brooklyn was mostly ADOS but shyt was still real

I'm from Brooklyn, and raised in that era, so from what I seen it was the fact that Brooklyn has the most people, the most poor people(next to the Bronx), and its very dense. This means even if your little area is nice, chances are you still go to school with kids who deal with gangs, drugs, and other criminal activity. This increases your chances of doing it too because when you're young, just being rebellious is fun. If your friends want yo go boosting, you might do it too. If you see somebody get props for carrying a gun, you will probably do it. The difference between before the mid 80s, and after, guns weren't around as much before the mid 80s. Once guns were everywhere, all types were shooting. I remember the first time I held a gun. I was walking with my friends, one pulled it out, and showed us. Once he let me hold it, these guys drive by us in a car looking hard, and tge fact that i knew I could stop all that hard shyt by just showing the hammer made me feel like God!

Its a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is

And it ain't all bad. When it comes to black excellence, Downtown Brooklyn around Lafayette avenue was the shyt. Spike Lee, and other artistic people lived over there. Just like we had hood shyt, we had black excellence, and all lived right next to each other!

That's what I'm saying, people trying to make it a "West Indian crazy thing" Brooklyn at it's finest produces some of the most successful and prominent black people of all time when ADOS and West Indians work and live together.

Nia Long- West Indian
Tracy Morgan-ADOS
Jay-z ADOS
Basquiat- West Indian
Shirley Chisolm-West Indian
Biggie-West Indian

"ts a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is"----> This is the right answer

 

[ISO]

That's what I'm saying, people trying to make it a "West Indian crazy thing" Brooklyn at it's finest produces some of the most successful and prominent black people of all time when ADOS and West Indians work and live together.

Nia Long- West Indian
Tracy Morgan-ADOS
Jay-z ADOS
Basquiat- ADOS
Shirley Chisolm-West Indian
Biggie-West Indian

"ts a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is"----> This is the right answer

Basquiat Rican and Haitian

 

[RealCrownHeights]

Basquiat Rican and Haitian

My bad typo you right

 

[Cadillac]

BK nikkas robbed me and a fat nikka had the nerve to ask me if he can have my KFC. so yeah poor fatherless nikkas just running rampant

@Bold: Yo what?

 

[No Homo]

That's what I'm saying, people trying to make it a "West Indian crazy thing" Brooklyn at it's finest produces some of the most successful and prominent black people of all time when ADOS and West Indians work and live together.

Nia Long- West Indian
Tracy Morgan-ADOS
Jay-z ADOS
Basquiat- West Indian
Shirley Chisolm-West Indian
Biggie-West Indian

"ts a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is"----> This is the right answer

I wouldn't say it's being West Indian, because in the 80's, and 90's, Brooklyn was mostly ADOS but shyt was still real

I'm from Brooklyn, and raised in that era, so from what I seen it was the fact that Brooklyn has the most people, the most poor people(next to the Bronx), and its very dense. This means even if your little area is nice, chances are you still go to school with kids who deal with gangs, drugs, and other criminal activity. This increases your chances of doing it too because when you're young, just being rebellious is fun. If your friends want yo go boosting, you might do it too. If you see somebody get props for carrying a gun, you will probably do it. The difference between before the mid 80s, and after, guns weren't around as much before the mid 80s. Once guns were everywhere, all types were shooting. I remember the first time I held a gun. I was walking with my friends, one pulled it out, and showed us. Once he let me hold it, these guys drive by us in a car looking hard, and tge fact that i knew I could stop all that hard shyt by just showing the hammer made me feel like God!

Its a whole bunch of reasons why Brooklyn is the way it is but in my opinion it's the poverty, density of the city, and everyone mingling with each other that makes it what it is

And it ain't all bad. When it comes to black excellence, Downtown Brooklyn around Lafayette avenue was the shyt. Spike Lee, and other artistic people lived over there. Just like we had hood shyt, we had black excellence, and all lived right next to each other!

Both of these are correct.

 

[Cadillac]

this thread is really interesting thanks yall for the insight on how NY came to be what it is now

one of the pros of the coli

 

[Cadillac]

speaking as a outsider from the West coast, but from what I heard and the 1-2 people i met from BK, plus the rappers from BK
BK nikkas always gave me the impression of being super aggressive, or they were some very materialistic type nikkas and were about money.

IRL I meet a brooklyn nikka who had that sterotypicala NY aggresiveness but even more so then the few i met out here.

Plus the rap scene and rappers i have listened to from BK whether MOP, Biggie, Jay, AZ, Murda, Troy.

I notice BK seems to really relish in that brag, gangsta, aggressive rap. nothing wrong with it.

Observations I have always had but wasnt sure on voicing it because I thought it was just me But i see im not to crazy for thinking that

 

[Wild self]

Not to bump into the ADOS/West Indian conflict history, its the nature of BK that kept it violent and the reputation of the area as well as the glorofication of violence/toughness in America, that kept the area like that. Even middle class, 2 parent black families that owned houses are shamed because it is "soft" to grow up with a level head and not engage in crime. On top of people preaching against real black power/black positivity, and you just have endless waves of conflict that people trying to culturize.