Was Slavery and the Oppression of Blacks revenge for The Moors?

[Trajan]

So the Ummayyads were black now

Since when?

Brehs, let's not allow afrocentrism to dupe us into making ridiculous statements

This caliphate was centered on the Umayyad dynasty (Arabic: الأمويون‎,al-ʾUmawiyyūn, or بنو أمية, Banū ʾUmayya, "Sons of Umayya"), hailing from Mecca. The Umayyad family had first come to power under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 644–656), but the Umayyad regime was founded by Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan, long-time governor of Syria, after the end of the First Muslim Civil War in 661 CE/41 AH. Syria remained the Umayyads' main power base thereafter, and Damascus was their capital. The Umayyads continued the Muslim conquests, incorporating the Caucasus, Transoxiana, Sindh, the Maghreb and the Iberian Peninsula (Al-Andalus) into the Muslim world. At its greatest extent, the Umayyad Caliphate covered 5.17 million square miles (13,400,000 km2), making it the largest empire the world had yet seen, and the fifth largest ever to exist.[7]

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Well you're half right:

India is the first nation to have cultivated the sciences, and
although black, Allah ranked them above many white and brown people. It is a powerful, wealthy and
populous nation known for the wisdom of its people and their abilities in all branches of knowledge

The Indians, as known to all nations for many centuries, are the metal (essence) of wisdom, the source of fairness and objectivity. They are peoples of sublime pensiveness, universal apologues, and useful and rare inventions. In spite of the fact that their color is in the first stage of blackness, which puts them in the same category as the blacks, Allah, in His glory, did not give them the low characters, the poor manners, nor the inferior principles associated with this group and ranked them above a large number of white and brown peoples.

The Categories of Nations by Said Al-Andalusi

So yeah, they were "black" but considered "different,"....that's kinda the point I was making, being categorized as "black" will mean different things depending on the time and place.

These statements also prove that many muslim Arabs had negative perception of black Africans. These records are from the 11th century...if the Moors were an exclusively black African people how do you reconcile these comments about the inferiority of black Africans?

Good post.

But like I said the term "Moor" comes from "Mauros" which described black skinned people of the Mauritania province. SO its not inaccurate to say the term "Moor" was exclusive to those Africans of that region or "black Africans".

Indeed Arabs did look down upon Black Africans like the Moors(Berbers), but it wasn't always the case with all Black Africans like the Western Sudanese and Abyssinians(Ethiopians). Arabs actually always praised those two groups, especially the Western Sudanese.

"The scholars of Timbuctoo yielded in nothing, to the saints in the sojourns in the foreign universities of Fez, Tunis, and Cairo. They astounded the most learned men of Islam by their erudition.That these Negroes were on a level with the Arabian savants is proved by the fact that they were installed as professors in Morocco and Egypt. In contrast to this, we find that Arabs were not always equal to the requirements of Sankore." 2 As a center of intellectual achievement, Timbuktu earned a place next to Cairo and other leading North African cities.

Dubois, Felix. Timbuctoo the Mysterious

If anything we know that "Black Africans" like the Western Sudanese and especially the Abyssinians(Ethiopians) thought of themselves as SUPERIOR to Arabs. Here's what the Abyssinians thought of Arabs:
[/QUOTE]The Blacks continue: coming from Abyssinia, we were Masters of the country of Arabia up to Mecca, and on all the country our law reigned. We put to rout Du Nuwas, killed by the ‘Aqyal Himyarites. You, you never dominated our country.[/QUOTE]

Here's what Arabs think about the "blackness" of Africans:

Al Marvazi: Kitab Taba’i al Hayawan (1120) (Book on Animals) from Persia.

—————————————————–

Taken from: Marvazi on China, the Turks and India 1942

Complete name: Sharaf al-Zaman Tahir MarvaziAlso called: Al Marwazi

He took his information from a missing geographical work from Al-Jayhani

On the Habasha:

The Habasha (Ethiopians) are a category under which come different classes of people such as the Nubians, Zanj, etc.. Their territories consist of extensive countries with a wide-stretching periphery the extremity of which ends where habitation ends and cultivation and procreation ceases…..

As for the heat in the lands of Habasha and Zanj, it reaches the extreme limit in scorching. They find beauty in the intensity of blackness and abhor whiteness and hold that a white man cannot be healthy...

...It is said in the Tawarikh (Histories) that one of the kings of Khorasan crossed the Oxus in order to fight the Turks. In his troops there were some Zanj. When the Turks sallied forth to meet them, they saw the Zanj,

Heck Arabs never always looked down on the Zanj. Black Africans like the Zanj even married Arab women in large numbers.

The Zanj say to the Arabs: You are so ignorant that during the jahiliyya (the times of ignorance ) you regarded us as your equals when it came to marrying Arab women, but with the advent of the justice of Islam you decided this practice was bad. Yet the desert is full of Zanj married to Arab wives, and they have been princes and kings and have safeguarded your rights and sheltered you against your enemies.

You even have sayings in your language which vaunt the deeds of our kings–deeds which you often placed above your own; this you would not have done had you not considered them superior to your own.

Heck the Zanj kings were even thought of as superior by the Arabs:

The (Zanj) also say: from Labid’s verses it becomes also clear that you put our kings higher then your own. Darkness came over those who survived from Muharriq’s family. Darkness that had done its work with Tubba and Heraclius, Darkness that had vanquished Abraha, who was living in the palace of Mawkal. So he prefers Abraha , but he would like the other kings to be his equals.

All sources come from Al Jahiz Superiority of blacks.

If was not always the case that Arabs looked down on blacks like people believe.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

So the Ummayyads were black now

Since when?

Brehs, let's not allow afrocentrism to dupe us into making ridiculous statements

Who the hell said the Ummayyyads were black!???? You're throwing in things no one said.

The Ummayyads were a Caliphate of different diverse Muslims mainly Western Asians(Arabs), but also blacks(Berber/Moors) from the Maghreb.

No one bought of the Ummayyads, this thread is about the Moors specifically. The Moors who predates the Ummayyads and Muslims.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Good post.

But like I said the term "Moor" comes from "Mauros" which described black skinned people of the Mauritania province. SO its not inaccurate to say the term "Moor" was exclusive to those Africans of that region or "black Africans".

Indeed Arabs did look down upon Black Africans like the Moors(Berbers), but it wasn't always the case with all Black Africans like the Western Sudanese and Abyssinians(Ethiopians). Arabs actually always praised those two groups, especially the Western Sudanese.


Dubois, Felix. Timbuctoo the Mysterious

If anything we know that "Black Africans" like the Western Sudanese and especially the Abyssinians(Ethiopians) thought of themselves as SUPERIOR to Arabs. Here's what the Abyssinians thought of Arabs:
The Blacks continue: coming from Abyssinia, we were Masters of the country of Arabia up to Mecca, and on all the country our law reigned. We put to rout Du Nuwas, killed by the ‘Aqyal Himyarites. You, you never dominated our country.

Here's what Arabs think about the "blackness" of Africans:


Heck Arabs never always looked down on the Zanj. Black Africans like the Zanj even married Arab women in large numbers.


Heck the Zanj kings were even thought of as superior by the Arabs:


All sources come from Al Jahiz Superiority of blacks.

If was not always the case that Arabs looked down on blacks like people believe.

I wont doubt those sources but I think opinions were more diverse. I'll quote the passage the followed the one I posted:

Some astrologers came up with an explanation for this condition; they said that both Saturn and Mercury control the destiny of the Indian people. Because of the influence of Saturn, their color turned black, while the influence of Mercury provided them with intellectual power and fine spirit. Saturn in partnership with Mercury gave them correctness of reasoning and depth of perception. This is why they enjoy the purity of talent and the power of distinction, making them totally different from the people of Sudan (Blacks) (2) such as the Zinj, the Abyssinians, the Ethiopians and others.

Arabs have always been a conceited people. I mean, this is an Arab scholar/historian saying shyt like this.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I really don't know why you're getting so excited fam. I never said a black man couldn't be called a "moor," I said it wasn't racially exclusive. Many moors were "black," many were not. The moors were muslim and islam was introduced to africans by arabs, so common sense alone will tell you that they couldn't have been exclusively black. All these stupid word games revolving around the etymology of the word moor, black....

Oh Dios mío... And common sense would tell you that the word Moor predates Muslims. So again I don't know why you are keep bringing up Muslims. It was only in later periods that it meant Muslims in general. But in the earlier periods the term was exclusive to blacks.

The chronicler also refrains from talking about the invaders’ religion, and does not call them Muslims, or infidels or pagans; rather he refers to them in ethnic terms: Arabs (Arabes), Moors (Mauri), Saracens (Saraceni).

http://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-history/8th-c-al-andalus-invasion/default_134.aspx

You see Arabs and Saracens(Muslims) NOT being grouped with Moors?

"All these stupid word games revolving around the etymology of the word"

And of course you would state that. Yeah lets just dismiss a etymology that the Greeks?Romans themselves created, when things don't go your way.

 

[Blackking]

How was Shaka Zulu a c00n? The Zulus fought cac imperialism from the 16-1900s and Shaka largely prevented cacs from completely penetrating south Africa.

After his death they flooded in and put up puppets but even they were deposed in favor of fighting the invaders

What I think his point is that the Moors, Malians or any African Muslim states should not be singled out for slavery when MANY African states Muslim, Christian, Pagan did it. Some more than others and some less than others.

IDK about Shaka being a "c00n".

@Tommy Knocks .... this one line is for you... the rest is for the other two people. - Shaka changed the entire culture of South Africa - from peaceful individual tribes --- to land and power hungry weapon inventing chaos.

It pains me to speak on it,

lol, but

There was a thread on Sohh....... asking about Shaka... created by blackkking..

I was trying to hype him up but then.....


It was explained to me how he opened up trade with CAC and opened up madd routes that they used to fukk us over. Also how he raped and killed some of his own women for zero reason at all.
How he took CAC weapons and used those to Become the African Christopher Colombus

Breh, dude for whatever reason Went Crazy because of power. He invented new ways to kill. Not kill his cac trading partners - but to kill africans.

I'm not saying he was some savage person - like Europeans have attemted to make him about to be just because he's african.

I'm saying it from another prospective....

When he took over other tribes --- He made sure they became ZULU , not keeping their tribal history, names, culture , etc
Plus historians... and even african historians put the Mfecane on his back Basically the equivalent of modern- Iraq, Libyia, and Sudan type chaos all happening at one time.

He is the one that 'granted' CAC to enter our motherland
CAC even provided MR Zulu with medical treatment when tribes and even members of this own clan tried to murk him

This dude Eventually Gave all white people and people of European decent, - especially Kings Full access to the Entire Zulu Kingdom............ Conveniently CAC gave zulu madd shyt like weapons to expand their kingdom.



We know so much about dude - both good and bad.... both false and true But we know nothing of so many leaders before or after him we barely know anything of the Real nikkas of the time........... his half bothers - Other local leaders, etc - Who wanted this c00n



might not be a c00n.... but there are some suspicious signs of pre-colonial c00nery

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I wont doubt those sources but I think opinions were more diverse. I'll quote the passage the followed the one I posted:

Some astrologers came up with an explanation for this condition; they said that both Saturn and Mercury control the destiny of the Indian people. Because of the influence of Saturn, their color turned black, while the influence of Mercury provided them with intellectual power and fine spirit. Saturn in partnership with Mercury gave them correctness of reasoning and depth of perception. This is why they enjoy the purity of talent and the power of distinction, making them totally different from the people of Sudan (Blacks) (2) such as the Zinj, the Abyssinians, the Ethiopians and others.

Arabs have always been a conceited people. I mean, this is an Arab scholar/historian saying shyt like this.

But where does it show Arabs looking down on Africans. That Arab writers appear to differentiate Sudanese from those three Africans listed. If I'm reading correctly.

 

[Blackking]

Plus look at the racist comment, cartoon, stigmas, and BS about Africa.

Sure cacs shouldn't be bigoted... but the cutlures of South Africa were more honorable, enlighten, majestic, peaceful and civilized before the Zulu war path went on.

Some of the actions observed..... is were the stigmas come from... that are placed on all blacks world wide today.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

What I think his point is that the Moors, Malians or any African Muslim states should not be singled out for slavery when MANY African states Muslim, Christian, Pagan did it. Some more than others and some less than others.

IDK about Shaka being a "c00n".

no they didnt. it was exclusive to the muslim. thus the reason he is unable to show me proof of the zulus doing it.

hunter gather socities rarely had slaves, there was no need.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

You still at it in this thread??

Zulus... and especially the leader shaka... was the most notorious c00n in history . As in real c00n, not fake c00n like u try to make the moors out to be.

Pages of nikkas educating you and you still wanna go at the moors and mailians and Sudanese necks?? Whose the real c00n?

actually im not involved in the other pages, havent even read them. and again, show me where nzinga, shaka or any other southern, central africans held slaves. I want receipts.

real c00n fake c00n wtf is this bullshyt. you dont even know what the definition of a c00n is, and its apparent now. so, how about you give me the definition. im going to call out all your shyt. you dont know jack shyt.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

@Tommy Knocks .... this one line is for you... the rest is for the other two people. - Shaka changed the entire culture of South Africa - from peaceful individual tribes --- to land and power hungry weapon inventing chaos.

It pains me to speak on it,

lol, but

There was a thread on Sohh....... asking about Shaka... created by blackkking..

I was trying to hype him up but then.....


It was explained to me how he opened up trade with CAC and opened up madd routes that they used to fukk us over. Also how he raped and killed some of his own women for zero reason at all.
How he took CAC weapons and used those to Become the African Christopher Colombus

Breh, dude for whatever reason Went Crazy because of power. He invented new ways to kill. Not kill his cac trading partners - but to kill africans.

I'm not saying he was some savage person - like Europeans have attemted to make him about to be just because he's african.

I'm saying it from another prospective....

When he took over other tribes --- He made sure they became ZULU , not keeping their tribal history, names, culture , etc
Plus historians... and even african historians put the Mfecane on his back Basically the equivalent of modern- Iraq, Libyia, and Sudan type chaos all happening at one time.

He is the one that 'granted' CAC to enter our motherland
CAC even provided MR Zulu with medical treatment when tribes and even members of this own clan tried to murk him

This dude Eventually Gave all white people and people of European decent, - especially Kings Full access to the Entire Zulu Kingdom............ Conveniently CAC gave zulu madd shyt like weapons to expand their kingdom.



We know so much about dude - both good and bad.... both false and true But we know nothing of so many leaders before or after him we barely know anything of the Real nikkas of the time........... his half bothers - Other local leaders, etc - Who wanted this c00n



might not be a c00n.... but there are some suspicious signs of pre-colonial c00nery

I asked you to show me where shaka held slaves, you are failing to do so, im not reading all that other shyt.

show me where other africans, non-muslims, from the southern states, held slaves. Ill wait.

I know a lot about my peoples history, from the bakongo kingdom, hutus, zulus, etc. and us congolese, rwandans, angolans, nambians, zambians, didnt have slaves. those were exclusive to you c00n as muslims. show me where we did it.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

no they didnt. it was exclusive to the muslim. thus the reason he is unable to show me proof of the zulus doing it.

This is pure ignorance on your part.

hunter gather socities rarely had slaves, there was no need.

?????

The Dahomey and Ashanti were a fully established iron-aged kingdom/empire. How the heck were they mere hunter gatherers??? If they were hunter gathers they would be like the Austrilian Aboriginals or South Khoisans, not producing a civilization and not leaving stone-age technology. What are you talking about with Hunter Gatherers? No one bought them up.

When I mean pagan I mean non-Abrahanic/organized religion which the Dahomey and Ashanti were. Again the Dahomey and Ashanti exported more slaves than Malians and Moors could ever dream. Their economy was based of slave trading where slave trading with Malians came last.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

This is pure ignorance on your part.



?????

The Dahomey and Ashanti were a fully established iron-aged kingdom/empire. How the heck were they mere hunter gatherers??? If they were hunter gathers they would be like the Austrilian Aboriginals or South Khoisans, not producing a civilization and not leaving stone-age technology. What are you talking about with Hunter Gatherers? No one bought them up.

When I mean pagan I mean non-Abrahanic/organized religion which the Dahomey and Ashanti were. Again the Dahomey and Ashanti exported more slaves than Malians and Moors could ever dream. Their economy was based of slave trading where slave trading with Malians came last.

False. They didnt hold slaves. They had POWs and were selling them to europeans who offered money for them. and you can be hunter gathers with a society. ei native americans. wtf is going on here.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

oh and when you actually go to africa and talk to ashanti people. they say it is cac lies.

interesting you list off ashanti.

Ending the Slavery Blame-Game
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/opinion/23gates.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

just so happens to be the very people these cacs use to justify slavery. yet, ask the people of africa who ran with slaves, and majority would say their societies didnt have slaves, or had indentured servants. huge difference.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

And before you call my people c00ns. better do your research.

here is a letter from the leader of my tribe, to the portuguese.

https://www2.stetson.edu/secure/history/hy10430/afonso.html

show me muslims doing this? they were cackling it up with the arabs.