Universal Healthcare (M4all): Italy’s government chooses if you live or die with/out the Coronavirus

[Professor Emeritus]

nope. I’m staring everyone should have a right to go to private or public hospitals.

which in its current state happens, even with Medicare.

No, it's easy for a doctor to deny you or for your insurance company to refuse coverage. "You're out of network." "I don't take Medicaid." Not to mention the people who don't have insurance at all. Let's actually bring some receipts into the discussion, because so far you've just been running your mouth without evidence.

Amelia Haviland, a statistician and professor of public policy at Carnegie Mellon University, said consumers are likely to have a "pleasantly different" experience with a shift to a Medicare for All system.

"There is no caution at the point of care at all," Haviland told Salon. "There's no restriction on what doctor you can keep. There's no restriction on what doctors you can see. There's no worrying about whether this doctor is 'in-network.'"

She noted that Sanders's plan addresses the "patient experience," which she said focuses on questions such as: "Can I pay for this? How do I need to arrange my care so that I can pay for this? Which provider can I see? When can I see them?"

Lindsay Wiley, a health law professor at American University and the president of the American Society of Law, Medicine and Ethics, explained: "Under traditional Medicare, there's not the same concern about restrictive networks. There could be situations where a doctor is not accepting new patients but you wouldn't have to find a list of the doctors who have entered into a contract with your particular private insurance plan."

Allison Hoffman, a health law and policy professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, also pointed out that Medicare for All would produce a system with lower administrative costs, as doctors and nurses would no longer have to spend time transferring medical records between providers, sorting out insurance bills, filling out forms and negotiating with insurance providers.

"The process from a physician's perspective would be way simpler," she said. "They wouldn't have to have an entire office filled with people who are billing for all of that care. It would greatly reduce administrative costs and complexity — and the same is true for individuals as they're trying to choose their health plan or even use their health plan."

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/14/this-is-what-doctor-visits-would-look-like-under-medicare-for-all/[URL="https://www.salon.com/2019/07/14/this-is-what-doctor-visits-would-look-like-under-medicare-for-all/"]Experts explain what Medicare for All would really look like[/URL]

No one said anything about being morally superior. U reached that conclusion on ur own.

You're trying to tell us what the system "should" be. That's a moral imperative. If you don't think your answer is morally superior, then why even make a thread? By what basis are you criticizing Medicare For All if not a moral one?

 

[King Sun]

Would have though nap made this thread

 

[TheDarceKnight]

It's called triage and its a normal practice in medicine and disaster relief. Y'all will just say anything, won't you

This.

this isn’t a M4A issue. It’s a triage issue and we must flatten the curve to stop it here.

 

[Lord Beasley]

i don't get why you think its okay to politicize a pandemic, OP

 

[TheDarceKnight]

i don't get why you think its okay to politicize a pandemic, OP

this

 

[F K]

i don't get why you think its okay to politicize a pandemic, OP

In his defense there are plenty of people yelling about how this proves america needs medicare 4 all. I think he's jumped the gun massively on this thread but he's not the only one.

 

[wtfyomom]

we have a shortage of vents here , if we got overwhelmed like italy wed also be doing this

 

[DEAD7]

France...
I hope our numbers look better....


160 Cases which had an outcome:

12 (8%) Recovered / Discharged

148 (93%) Deaths

 

[R. Money]

Italy is famously incompetent.

 

[Warren Moon]

No, it's easy for a doctor to deny you or for your insurance company to refuse coverage. "You're out of network." "I don't take Medicaid." Not to mention the people who don't have insurance at all. Let's actually bring some receipts into the discussion, because so far you've just been running your mouth without evidence.






Experts explain what Medicare for All would really look likeExperts explain what Medicare for All would really look like




You're trying to tell us what the system "should" be. That's a moral imperative. If you don't think your answer is morally superior, then why even make a thread? By what basis are you criticizing Medicare For All if not a moral one?

Medicare patients are leaving Medicare for private Medicare advantage in droves because they receive more stuff.

It's literally the closets 1 to 1 comparison on private vs public market and seniors are pick Medicare Advantage because they get more benefits even though the networks are smaller.


I can speak first hand about this. Medicare wont pay for a ramp tto your house if you become paralyzed, Medicare advantage will.

Medicare Advantage plans often provide more benefits than you would receive under Original Medicare. They provide more coverage, at cheaper prices with higher satisfaction scores.

Public vs Public (Managed by private companies) and people are switching to the latter in mass.

 

[barese]

Not talking about their problems. I’m talking about them choosing who lives and dies. But I’m letting this go. Ppl are trying to act dumb.

This is not true. We are at war now.

We have additional private insurance through my company that is useless at the moment. My husband has a toothache right now, but dentists are not working at the moment to avoid possible contagion.

All medical specialties in all hospitals are fully on coronavirus patients, except for the most serious urgencies.
And if you have coronavirus, there are no additional places anywhere.
All hospitals are full in Lombardy, private and public.

The private insurance was helpful only at the very beginning, but at the time even in public hospitals they were managing to create additional beds overnight in the halls and elsewhere around the hospital. There were enough respirators to create additional places...

 

[Cynic]

In the USA there’s this thing called the “right to transfer” https://health.usnews.com/health-ne.../2014/06/12/your-rights-as-a-hospital-patient

it’s the law here.

You can ask to transfer in Italy too, but it has to be a private hospital. And you need to have private insurance or pay out of pocket.

if you solely rely on government healthcare, you’re shyt out of luck.

Italy is not an example of universal healthcare any more than it would be for central banking. Go look at their bank debt.

Italy is notorious in Europe for being lax and wanton. They literally have the oldest population and the oldest buildings.

 

[DonFrancisco]

Medicare patients are leaving Medicare for private Medicare advantage in droves because they receive more stuff.

It's literally the closets 1 to 1 comparison on private vs public market and seniors are pick Medicare Advantage because they get more benefits even though the networks are smaller.


I can speak first hand about this. Medicare wont pay for a ramp tto your house if you become paralyzed, Medicare advantage will.

Medicare Advantage plans often provide more benefits than you would receive under Original Medicare. They provide more coverage, at cheaper prices with higher satisfaction scores.

Public vs Public (Managed by private companies) and people are switching to the latter in mass.

To anyone here.....DO NOT GO With Medicare Advantage. You get more maintenance care but if you have a major health emergency or comorbidity you will be left in limbo and denied. You don't know how many people I had to fight to get proper care. These insurances will manage every part of your care and your discharge planning even if you aren't healthy enough. They will stall your approval just to get to kicked out of hospital.


DON'T listen to Warren Moon.

This also goes for MMP plans.


Maybe in your state Warren Moon you can get ramps but in Texas you don't get anything extra for long term care.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

To anyone here.....DO NOT GO With Medicare Advantage. You get more maintenance care but if you have a major health emergency or comorbidity you will be left in limbo and denied. You don't know how many people I had to fight to get proper care. These insurances will manage every part of your care and your discharge planning even if you aren't healthy enough. They will stall your approval just to get to kicked out of hospital.

It's amazing how quick he is to run with the corporate line on anything.

People go to Medicare Advantage for two reasons:

#1. All those corporations have marketing budgets to ADVERTIZE people to switch to their program
#2. They offer more shyt but it comes at higher costs
#3. They don't realize that when they get really sick or need an out-of-network doctor they might be fukked over

Some articles for folk who want to do their own research:

Pitfalls of Medicare Advantage Plans

Who Benefits from Medicare Advantage?


Here's the key line from the Wharton study (and Wharton is hardly a business school that tends to cape for government programs):

"The research indicates that an additional dollar of federal spending on the MA program translates into, at most, only 40 cents of additional financial benefit for consumers. Similarly, quality is unchanged, yet advertising spending increases. This has important implications for policy, and the results should play into the decisions regarding proposed cuts to the Medicare Advantage program."

In other words, it's taxpayer money going to line corporate pockets.

 

[bnew]

Most of that is due to surprise billing from my understanding. What Bernie didn’t tell y’all was surprise billing is still going to exist under m4all. He added the same backdoor excuse we already have now in the bill. Certain things for “medical necessity” won’t be covered.


On his website he lists “cosmetic surgery”. But the real list consists of thousands of different things.

so it'll be like other universal healthcare systems