Universal Healthcare (M4all): Italy’s government chooses if you live or die with/out the Coronavirus

jj23

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Governor Cuomo is trying to take over the private health system in New York bc they have less cases in private system. :francis:


I hate I had to be right :wow:. But Y’all going to Learn:ufdup:


I fully expect him to take over private hospitals in some way at some point. Inefficiency on the public side that now they have to take over private entities running smoothly :ld:

Be fair breh. Is that taking into account how many new Yorkers have private health insurance?
 

Warren Moon

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U didn’t read any of these :mjlol: I’m literally going to copy and paste the conclusions in the examples you provided

1. In both the public and the private sector there were financial barriers to care, such as user fees. Although patients in the private sector experienced better timeliness and hospitality, providers in the private sector more frequently violated accepted medical standards and have lower reported efficiency.

this is that medically necessity bullshyt I was talking about. That Bernie added to his bill. If the government says it’s not warranted, they won’t give that care. The biggest example for blacks are new sickle cell disease drugs. It’s all why ppl protest in the uk when they won’t pay for new drugs.

The government dictates what’s efficient. If 90% of ppl with epilepsy can take a $10 drug that’s more efficient. Even if the other 10% could maybe try a better drug at $20. Even if 2/10 ppl have better results with the $20 drug. The $10 drug is more efficient.

2. Accessibility to broader populations is often a matter of concern in private provision: Patients with higher social‐economic backgrounds hold better access to private hospital provision, especially in private parallel systems such as the United Kingdom and Greece. The existing evidence on quality of care is often too diverse to make a conclusive statement. In conclusion, the growth in private hospital provision seems not related to improvements in performance in Europe. Our evidence further suggests that the private (for‐profit) hospital sector seems to react more strongly to (financial) incentives than other provider types. In such cases, policymakers either should very carefully develop adequate incentive structures or be hesitant to accommodate the growth of the private hospital sector.:francis:

3. Private sector healthcare delivery in low- and middle-income countries is sometimes argued to be more efficient, accountable, and sustainable than public sector delivery. Conversely, the public sector is often regarded as providing more equitable and evidence-based care. Studies evaluated in this systematic review do not support the claim that the private sector is usually more efficient, accountable, or medically effective than the public sector; however, the public sector appears frequently to lack timeliness and hospitality towards patients.

The USA isn’t a middle or low income country. :francis:

4. This is one is the best example u could of provided. It’s an actual us based study on our own hospitals :mjgrin:

“Public hospitals typically operate in more challenging environments than private hospitals. Research suggests that privatization is one of the strategies that struggling public hospitals adopt to stay competitive. The purpose of this study was to examine whether privatization of public hospitals enhances efficiency and productivity.


Privatization from public to private status was associated with increased efficiency in terms of its positive associations with CATO (β =0.63) and FATO (β =0.23) and its negative association with FTE employees per occupied bed (β =-0.93) all at (p ≤ 0.001). Privatization was associated with increased productivity (β= 0.83; p ≤ 0.001).

Check mate? :jawalrus:

5.
 

F K

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U didn’t read any of these :mjlol: I’m literally going to copy and paste the conclusions in the examples you provided

1. In both the public and the private sector there were financial barriers to care, such as user fees. Although patients in the private sector experienced better timeliness and hospitality, providers in the private sector more frequently violated accepted medical standards and have lower reported efficiency.

this is that medically necessity bullshyt I was talking about. That Bernie added to his bill. If the government says it’s not warranted, they won’t give that care. The biggest example for blacks are new sickle cell disease drugs. It’s all why ppl protest in the uk when they won’t pay for new drugs.

The government dictates what’s efficient. If 90% of ppl with epilepsy can take a $10 drug that’s more efficient. Even if the other 10% could maybe try a better drug at $20. Even if 2/10 ppl have better results with the $20 drug. The $10 drug is more efficient.

2. Accessibility to broader populations is often a matter of concern in private provision: Patients with higher social‐economic backgrounds hold better access to private hospital provision, especially in private parallel systems such as the United Kingdom and Greece. The existing evidence on quality of care is often too diverse to make a conclusive statement. In conclusion, the growth in private hospital provision seems not related to improvements in performance in Europe. Our evidence further suggests that the private (for‐profit) hospital sector seems to react more strongly to (financial) incentives than other provider types. In such cases, policymakers either should very carefully develop adequate incentive structures or be hesitant to accommodate the growth of the private hospital sector.:francis:

3. Private sector healthcare delivery in low- and middle-income countries is sometimes argued to be more efficient, accountable, and sustainable than public sector delivery. Conversely, the public sector is often regarded as providing more equitable and evidence-based care. Studies evaluated in this systematic review do not support the claim that the private sector is usually more efficient, accountable, or medically effective than the public sector; however, the public sector appears frequently to lack timeliness and hospitality towards patients.

The USA isn’t a middle or low income country. :francis:

4. This is one is the best example u could of provided. It’s an actual us based study on our own hospitals :mjgrin:

“Public hospitals typically operate in more challenging environments than private hospitals. Research suggests that privatization is one of the strategies that struggling public hospitals adopt to stay competitive. The purpose of this study was to examine whether privatization of public hospitals enhances efficiency and productivity.


Privatization from public to private status was associated with increased efficiency in terms of its positive associations with CATO (β =0.63) and FATO (β =0.23) and its negative association with FTE employees per occupied bed (β =-0.93) all at (p ≤ 0.001). Privatization was associated with increased productivity (β= 0.83; p ≤ 0.001).

Check mate? :jawalrus:

5.
Like I said, sometimes private is better, some things public does better. Both are necessary.

I include studies that also indicate the opposite of my claims, because I seek only the truth, not ideological wins. One study by itself is not useful for making policy, better to look at all of the scholarship, which generally indicates that private and public healthcare providers do not have a huge difference in providing quality of care and efficiency.
 

F K

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U didn’t read any of these :mjlol: I’m literally going to copy and paste the conclusions in the examples you provided

1. In both the public and the private sector there were financial barriers to care, such as user fees. Although patients in the private sector experienced better timeliness and hospitality, providers in the private sector more frequently violated accepted medical standards and have lower reported efficiency.

this is that medically necessity bullshyt I was talking about. That Bernie added to his bill. If the government says it’s not warranted, they won’t give that care. The biggest example for blacks are new sickle cell disease drugs. It’s all why ppl protest in the uk when they won’t pay for new drugs.

The government dictates what’s efficient. If 90% of ppl with epilepsy can take a $10 drug that’s more efficient. Even if the other 10% could maybe try a better drug at $20. Even if 2/10 ppl have better results with the $20 drug. The $10 drug is more efficient.

2. Accessibility to broader populations is often a matter of concern in private provision: Patients with higher social‐economic backgrounds hold better access to private hospital provision, especially in private parallel systems such as the United Kingdom and Greece. The existing evidence on quality of care is often too diverse to make a conclusive statement. In conclusion, the growth in private hospital provision seems not related to improvements in performance in Europe. Our evidence further suggests that the private (for‐profit) hospital sector seems to react more strongly to (financial) incentives than other provider types. In such cases, policymakers either should very carefully develop adequate incentive structures or be hesitant to accommodate the growth of the private hospital sector.:francis:

3. Private sector healthcare delivery in low- and middle-income countries is sometimes argued to be more efficient, accountable, and sustainable than public sector delivery. Conversely, the public sector is often regarded as providing more equitable and evidence-based care. Studies evaluated in this systematic review do not support the claim that the private sector is usually more efficient, accountable, or medically effective than the public sector; however, the public sector appears frequently to lack timeliness and hospitality towards patients.

The USA isn’t a middle or low income country. :francis:

4. This is one is the best example u could of provided. It’s an actual us based study on our own hospitals :mjgrin:

“Public hospitals typically operate in more challenging environments than private hospitals. Research suggests that privatization is one of the strategies that struggling public hospitals adopt to stay competitive. The purpose of this study was to examine whether privatization of public hospitals enhances efficiency and productivity.


Privatization from public to private status was associated with increased efficiency in terms of its positive associations with CATO (β =0.63) and FATO (β =0.23) and its negative association with FTE employees per occupied bed (β =-0.93) all at (p ≤ 0.001). Privatization was associated with increased productivity (β= 0.83; p ≤ 0.001).

Check mate? :jawalrus:

5.
I've always wasted enough time on this so I'll make my final statement. There is more than enough proof out there that indicates that having a healthcare system that is 100% run by the government is not optimal, practical, effective or ideal.

This is why it's very confusing to me that you spend so much time in here lying, making up things, and inventing weird angles to criticize ALL government-run healthcare when public healthcare systems have been proven to work in so many places.

You can defend private healthcare, without defending America's current abortion of a system. Germany, Holland, and Switzerland all do private healthcare very well.

The american system is fukked up and bad, and you shouldn't be defending it.

The funniest part is our ideal system probably looks the same: Robust public option that is free at the point of use with a healthy private sector.
 

Warren Moon

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I've always wasted enough time on this so I'll make my final statement. There is more than enough proof out there that indicates that having a healthcare system that is 100% run by the government is not optimal, practical, effective or ideal.

This is why it's very confusing to me that you spend so much time in here lying, making up things, and inventing weird angles to criticize ALL government-run healthcare when public healthcare systems have been proven to work in so many places.

You can defend private healthcare, without defending America's current abortion of a system. Germany, Holland, and Switzerland all do private healthcare very well.

The american system is fukked up and bad, and you shouldn't be defending it.

The funniest part is our ideal system probably looks the same: Robust public option that is free at the point of use with a healthy private sector.


I’m only against removing my access to the private healthcare system. Which is what Medicare for all is, under Bernie
 

Geek Nasty

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So government is kicking 80 year olds to the curb rather than letting 80 year old billionaires buy up one ventilator per lung, a personal doctor, and 3 nurses on 24 hour rotation? I'll take it
 

Warren Moon

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So government is kicking 80 year olds to the curb rather than letting 80 year old billionaires buy up one ventilator per lung, a personal doctor, and 3 nurses on 24 hour rotation? I'll take it

naw Italy’s system does both
 
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