Universal Healthcare (M4all): Italy’s government chooses if you live or die with/out the Coronavirus

[Warren Moon]

He went into cardiac arrest on the way to another hospital.

yeah similar story happened in Italy. Private hospital refused to take in a patient. Same shyt happens in U.K. too.

the only way u can go anywhere you want is having insurance unfortunately.

 

[F K]

yeah similar story happened in Italy. Private hospital refused to take in a patient. Same shyt happens in U.K. too.

the only way u can go anywhere you want is having insurance unfortunately.

why aren't you outraged about this? I thought you hated hospitals denying care to people

 

[Warren Moon]

why aren't you outraged about this? I thought you hated hospitals denying care to people

It’s sad for him. But it’s a private hospital.

I’m outraged that people currently under the care of hospitals, taking ppl off of life support for someone else bc they have a statistical higher likelihood of surviving. That’s not the traditional way of “triaging” and sets a dangerous precedent for me, my family and others of my race bc we lose that coin flip 80% of the time.

 

[nyknick]

People just can't admit when they're wrong

You would think being online it would be easier but people just can't do it

 

[F K]

It’s sad for him. But it’s a private hospital.

I’m outraged that people currently under the care of hospitals, taking ppl off of life support for someone else bc they have a statistical higher likelihood of surviving. That’s not the traditional way of “triaging” and sets a dangerous precedent for me, my family and others of my race bc we lose that coin flip 80% of the time.

at least you're honest about being completely selfish and self-interested. If black people die because they are poor and can't afford treatment it's ok, but if they die because someone has a better chance of surviving it's an outrage. Large amounts of black people die every year because of lack of healthcare but you're in here carrying on about the most minuscule of edge cases.

 

[F K]

People just can't admit when they're wrong

You would think being online it would be easier but people just can't do it

he's not wrong. He comes from a black family that seems to be relatively well off, so anything that reduces the importance of money in the medical system endangers his material interests. He's just selfish. He's ok with the current system, because even though it delivers worse outcomes for most black people , it meets his needs.

 

[Warren Moon]

at least you're honest about being completely selfish and self-interested. If black people die because they are poor and can't afford treatment it's ok, but if they die because someone has a better chance of surviving it's an outrage. Large amounts of black people die every year because of lack of healthcare but you're in here carrying on about the most minuscule of edge cases.

Biden’s doubling the funding for community health centers for blacks. Something Bernie refused to do, I know one of the main writers for the legislation they tried earlier in the year. And Biden came through and said he’d do it .

Black ppl will get a public option if they have no insurance


I’ve never said I was against ppl getting care


I am against my only option being a government run system where they can pull the plug with no repercussions . If my hypothetical daughter gets corona and the public hospital that only take public patients is full, I want her to have to the option to go to a private doctor.


I also fully support black ppl building out their own networks of highly qualified black doctors who have private practices. In a m4all system black owned practices will ultimately disappear and they’ll all have to work for public systems.

I want to have the option of taking my daughter to a black owned private practice where they may be more apt to actually listen to her issues.

I don’t want to be forced to go to a public doctor/hospital I don’t think is good enough for me and mine


You just made up me thinking poor blacks shouldn’t get care. That’s a flat out lie

 

[chico25]

Biden’s doubling the funding for community health centers for blacks. Something Bernie refused to do, I know one of the main writers for the legislation they tried earlier in the year. And Biden came through and said he’d do it .

Black ppl will get a public option if they have no insurance


I’ve never said I was against ppl getting care


I am against my only option being a government run system where they can pull the plug with no repercussions . If my hypothetical daughter gets corona and the public hospital that only take public patients is full, I want her to have to the option to go to a private doctor.


I also fully support black ppl building out their own networks of highly qualified black doctors who have private practices. In a m4all system black owned practices will ultimately disappear and they’ll all have to work for public systems.

I want to have the option of taking my daughter to a black owned private practice where they may be more apt to actually listen to her issues.

I don’t want to be forced to go to a public doctor/hospital I don’t think is good enough for me and mine


You just made up me thinking poor blacks shouldn’t get care. That’s a flat out lie

You are making up a false picture of Medicare for all. The bill in the Senate would have the government pay for patients to go to public or private hospitals. Why would black owned private practices and hospitals disappear under that model? Instead of billing a bunch of different insurance companies they would only have to bill one source, which would cut administrative costs offsetting the lower amount that Medicare pays out.

 

[Pressure]

I am against my only option being a government run system where they can pull the plug with no repercussions

I'm going to ignore the rest of this thread, but this seems to be a point people don't seem to want to discuss.

I fully expect republicans to ruin healthcare as much as they can.

 

[Warren Moon]

You are making up a false picture of Medicare for all. The bill in the Senate would have the government pay for patients to go to public or private hospitals. Why would black owned private practices and hospitals disappear under that model? Instead of billing a bunch of different insurance companies they would only have to bill one source, which would cut administrative costs offsetting the lower amount that Medicare pays out.

Most small private practices will not survive. 99% of black owned healthcare providers are small practices.

it’s not about administration costs, it’s about compensation. In particular, the researchers found the average prices private insurers paid for hospital outpatient services were 293% of Medicare rates, while inpatient services were reimbursed at 204% of Medicare rates.


They would have a significant drop in revenue and the “more patients” wouldn’t fix it.


These are black owned “practices” not hospitals. We own a few hospitals but not a lot. 95% of black owned providers are practices.

 

[Warren Moon]

I'm going to ignore the rest of this thread, but this seems to be a point people don't seem to want to discuss.

I fully expect republicans to ruin healthcare as much as they can.

they refuse acknowledge it. And u can’t sue hospitals or the government under m4all. Your shyt out of luck. malpractice lawsuits and shyt become obsolete. Malpractice lawsuits are nonexistent in Canada, U.K. etc.

the government and hospitals have zero accountability.

 

[F K]

Biden’s doubling the funding for community health centers for blacks. Something Bernie refused to do, I know one of the main writers for the legislation they tried earlier in the year. And Biden came through and said he’d do it .

Black ppl will get a public option if they have no insurance


I’ve never said I was against ppl getting care


I am against my only option being a government run system where they can pull the plug with no repercussions . If my hypothetical daughter gets corona and the public hospital that only take public patients is full, I want her to have to the option to go to a private doctor.


I also fully support black ppl building out their own networks of highly qualified black doctors who have private practices. In a m4all system black owned practices will ultimately disappear and they’ll all have to work for public systems.

I want to have the option of taking my daughter to a black owned private practice where they may be more apt to actually listen to her issues.

I don’t want to be forced to go to a public doctor/hospital I don’t think is good enough for me and mine


You just made up me thinking poor blacks shouldn’t get care. That’s a flat out lie

I'm just basing it off of your selective outrage. You should be outraged at both the prospect of someone being taken off of respirators and someone being refused care for not having insurance. But you just hit the at the guy dying and justified his death by saying private hospitals have the right to refuse care to people without insurance. I also agree that there should be private and public options but i disagree with you on thinking that private hospitals can just turn away poor, sick people. It should be made illegal and they should be punished for it.

 

[Warren Moon]

I'm just basing it off of your selective outrage. You should be outraged at both the prospect of someone being taken off of respirators and someone being refused care for not having insurance. But you just hit the at the guy dying and justified his death by saying private hospitals have the right to refuse care to people without insurance. I also agree that there should be private and public options but i disagree with you on thinking that private hospitals can just turn away poor, sick people. It should be made illegal and they should be punished for it.

I’m not defending them. But there’s not much they could do for him. It was an urgent care facility, those are like Walgreens with a doctor in them. They are the corners stores of the medical industry.

Most the urgent care facilities in Atlanta are turning away ppl who May have corona if you have insurance or not, bc they can’t treat you. Some of them won’t even let you walk inside.

 

[F K]

I'm going to ignore the rest of this thread, but this seems to be a point people don't seem to want to discuss.

I fully expect republicans to ruin healthcare as much as they can.

I'm going to sound like a broken record but this is why the Australian model is my favorite, and imo the best healthcare model, and the one most likely to succeed in America. They have a public option that is free at point of use and they also force everyone over a certain income to get private insurance, thus ensuring that there is a private counter balance/escape hatch.

@Warren Moon, like many others ,makes the mistake of conflating universal health care with single payer.The Netherlands has universal healthcare, better health outcomes, better affordabillity ,longer lifespans with a 100% private system. There is no one true path to good healthcare, the only thing that is known for sure is that the current American system is not the right way to do it.

 

[F K]

I’m not defending them. But there’s not much they could do for him. It was an urgent care facility, those are like Walgreens with a doctor in them. They are the corners stores of the medical industry.

Most the urgent care facilities in Atlanta are turning away ppl who May have corona if you have insurance or not, bc they can’t treat you. Some of them won’t even let you walk inside.

This is indicative of a completely broken healthcare system, I'm not asking you to be mad at line employees, but at the architects of these systems the insurance companies,the highers up, the politicians , the lobbyists who made a system that sentences people to death for not having insurance. Don't make excuses for these people, they have chosen to prioritize profits over people's lives.