Trump May Sign Executive Order to Help HBCUs. Why couldn't Obama? 2/06

[theworldismine13]

she's counting her chickens before they hatch and
@Call Me James is a democratic party hack

 

[SubZeroDegrees]

Obama did a terrible job for HBCUs. He basically didn't give a fukk about them.

 

[Pressure]

she's counting her chickens before they hatch and
@Call Me James is a democratic party hack

Just a successful black man not jaded enough to believe that we can't navigate upward in this society. I assume you're struggling though and as a result you envy and hate on those who aren't.

 

[theworldismine13]

Just a successful black man not jaded enough to believe that we can't navigate upward in this society. I assume you're struggling though and as a result you envy and hate on those who aren't.

what government program do you think i should sign up for to be successful like you?

 

[Pressure]

what government program do you think i should sign up for to be successful like you?

Sorry, I used the hard work stimulus package. My parents instilled that in me.

 

[theworldismine13]

Sorry, I used the hard work stimulus package. My parents instilled that in me.

that's wonderful, and now you work hard at shilling for democrats, congrats

 

[Pressure]

that's wonderful

What's the question here? There's no magic pill to supplement hard work and preparedness to get ahead if you're not already starting at the top. Social programs, government aid, etc are useful if not necessary tools to help many of the disenfranchised and forgotten to at least be able to stay afloat long enough to compete.

If the system got rid of all social programs then there really isn't a chance for blacks or the poor to become successful. The system is already rigged against them. You might not like how social programs are working, how they are funding, how successful they are, or even if they are meeting their target goal. Those are all fair criticisms. But I find it short sighted to use that as an excuse to get rid of all social programs.

My view there is similar to how i feel on HBCUs. Just because some are poor performers doesn't mean that HBCUs don't offer a benefit. For many, it provides an educational environment that is comfortable or familiar. That's good. The social aspects of higher learning are very important. All that said, those are supplements to the main product. The main product is offering an education that prepares students to enter the world as productive adults. If a school isn't performing well we shouldn't just throw more money at it. Especially in regards to private institutions. I'm not going to cape for a poor performing school just because it's an HBCU.

For example, take JCSU in Charlotte, NC A&T, UNC Chapel Hill and look at what you're getting from your value in each. UNC does a better job of keeping it's students and graduating them in a reasonable time (90%) compared to A&T and JSCU with both graduating less than 50% of it's students. Despite those differences, students from A&T and UNC-CH have similar starting salaries, relatively low cost in education, and people usually reach their ROI in 3-4 years if they graduate.

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Outcomes
Johnson C Smith University Outcomes
North Carolina A & T State University Outcomes

What am I getting at? Something similar to what was posted earlier in this thread. If a University isn't graduating it's students it doesn't have the pool of alum to increase it's endowment. This further lessens the worth, efficiency, and effectiveness of these institutions. This could result from a variety of reasons, but I would say a few large factors would be in no particular order:

• Admitting poor quality students who cannot handle or aren't prepared for the workload (admissions)
• Having poor curriculum that's either not engaging or is washing out your students (staff)
• The cost of education forces students to leave (working multiple jobs pulls away from their education, the lack of credit worthiness doesn't afford them the ability to take out loans, DOE not handling grants properly, lack of internal scholarships)

Granted those aren't the only things that affect the schools, but most of these issue are issues brought upon themselves by poor internal administration. I don't understand the desire to say these schools are failing because the President (Obama or Trump) enacted policy to cause only the HBCUs to fail that wouldn't have harmed other universities. For the state run school you can usually point to board of directors, the governor, and state legislature for either funding or de-funding these schools. This is currently going on in Florida. For the private Universities that struggle, they either don't graduate enough alum who are successful and give back to their endowment, have enough research that brings in grants and other money, or they are just poorly run. How's that on the president either?

If you want HBCUs to perform better I think it's worth letting the bad ones fail. If you want black students to be more successful in the workforce then it needs to handled earlier in the education process. HBCUs shouldn't be seen or used as a stimulus package for the sub par. That's insulting. We shouldn't even have to have a conversation of what's better PWI or HBCU because they should meet the same standards of education. Further, students should be educated from elementary through high school so that they are able to go to any University they'd like and are prepared to receive that education and succeed.

 

[havoc]

Over the course of seven years the Obama administration has donated over 4 billion dollars to HBCU schools. I don't understand why people choose to ignore the facts.

 

[Pressure]

Over the course of seven years the Obama administration has donated over 4 billion dollars to HBCU schools. I don't understand why people choose ignore the facts.

It doesn't fit their narrative. It also goes against the short sighted idea that you can just throw money at a problem to fix it.

 

[Pressure]

Why HBCUs Are On The Decline | Dr. Marc Lamont Hill

Thoughts?

According to recent reports, enrollment at the Historically Black Colleges and University (HBCU) is a on a steady decline. Despite a rise in overall attendance, the number of college eligible Black students who attend HBCUs has dropped from 18.4 percent to 12.9 percent over the past thirty years. Between 1995 and 2004, 26 of the 87 Black schools profiled by the United States Education Department experienced declines in enrollment. While many experts correctly attribute this drop in enrollment to “aging campuses,” there are a host of other critical issues that must be considered when discussing the current state of HBCUs.

One of the biggest issues surrounding the HBCU attendance drop is expanding opportunity. Beginning with the 1960s cohort of Affirmative Action students, large numbers of Black students were able to bypass the HBCU and matriculate directly into the White mainstream. Whereas scholars like Cornel West and Henry Louis Gates were able to enroll as undergraduates at Harvard and Yale University, their intellectual heroes and mentors had no such luxury. W.E.B. Dubois had to attend Fisk before obtaining a Ph.D. at Harvard; Martin Luther King, Jr. followed in his father’s Morehouse footsteps before going to Boston College; Martin Kilson went to Lincoln University before receiving his doctorate at Harvard. More than ever before, Black America’s best and brightest do not have to attend HBCUs as undergraduates before obtaining advanced degrees from elite, predominately White institutions.

In addition to expanding scholastic opportunities, HBCUs do not play the same role in Black public life as they did in previous decades. Although the highly commodified Black cultural nationalism of the early 1990s, as well as the hit television show “A Different World,” created a mini-renascence of HBCU love, there has been a growing indifference to HBCUs within the Black community. Whereas previous generations saw an HBCU degree as a badge of honor and community solidarity, many of today’s students and parents see the Black college as a secondary or tertiary alternative to Ivy League universities and elite liberal arts colleges. While this is partly due to the ever-expanding bourgeoisie sensibilities of the Black middle class, it is also directly connected to the increased corporatization of higher education. Within the cultural logic of the neo-liberal marketplace, where formal education is reduced to a tradable commodity, HBCUs are viewed as inferior products.

Another factor in the decline of the HBCU is its strict cultural conservatism. Unlike their historically White counterparts, many Black institutions continue to impose conservative policies and practices that, in the minds of many students, have exhausted their utility such as mandatory chapel service. Additionally, many HBCUs tacitly reaffirm problematic ideologies that cause material damage to its students. One of the most disturbing examples of this emerged in 2003, when Morehouse College’s unofficial “don’t ask don’t tell” policy about sexual identity, fueled by years of Christian fundamentalism and homphobia, contributed to the vicious beating of Gregory Love, a gay student who was attacked for allegedly looking at another student in the bathroom.

Perhaps the most disappointing factor is that many HBCUs have failed to remain on the cutting edge of intellectual production. In the early part of the 20th century, schools like Howard University housed brilliant minds such as Abram Harris Jr., E. Franklin Frazier, and Ralph Bunche. This is not to say that HBCUs do not produce and provide brilliant intellectual leadership. On the contrary, prominent intellectuals from William Jelani Cobb to Wade Boykin to Beverly Guy-Sheftall operate from inside the Ebony tower. Still, the current structure of the university prioritizes teaching and university service over original research. As such, most of the country’s leading scholars elect to work at prominent research institutions, where they can teach two classes and produce new scholarship, instead of teaching four classes per semester at the HBCU.

Also, the conservative ethos of the HBCU has led to an ironic resistance to many of the most interesting, provocative, and transformative intellectual fields that have emerged in the past four decades. For example, many HBCUs still do not have African American Studies(!), Women’s Studies, or Queer Studies departments. The absence of such intellectually vibrant spaces inevitably forces many scholars, whose training was largely informed by these disciplines, to remain in White institutions.

To be certain, the declining significance of the HBCU is a tragedy for the Black community. In addition to being a historical signpost of highbrow Black intellection, the HBCU must play a vital role in creating a self-sustaining Black community in the future. In order to do this, however, we must acknowledge these issues and work to change them.

 

[theworldismine13]

What's the question here? There's no magic pill to supplement hard work and preparedness to get ahead if you're not already starting at the top. Social programs, government aid, etc are useful if not necessary tools to help many of the disenfranchised and forgotten to at least be able to stay afloat long enough to compete.

If the system got rid of all social programs then there really isn't a chance for blacks or the poor to become successful. The system is already rigged against them. You might not like how social programs are working, how they are funding, how successful they are, or even if they are meeting their target goal. Those are all fair criticisms. But I find it short sighted to use that as an excuse to get rid of all social programs.

My view there is similar to how i feel on HBCUs. Just because some are poor performers doesn't mean that HBCUs don't offer a benefit. For many, it provides an educational environment that is comfortable or familiar. That's good. The social aspects of higher learning are very important. All that said, those are supplements to the main product. The main product is offering an education that prepares students to enter the world as productive adults. If a school isn't performing well we shouldn't just throw more money at it. Especially in regards to private institutions. I'm not going to cape for a poor performing school just because it's an HBCU.

For example, take JCSU in Charlotte, NC A&T, UNC Chapel Hill and look at what you're getting from your value in each. UNC does a better job of keeping it's students and graduating them in a reasonable time (90%) compared to A&T and JSCU with both graduating less than 50% of it's students. Despite those differences, students from A&T and UNC-CH have similar starting salaries, relatively low cost in education, and people usually reach their ROI in 3-4 years if they graduate.

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Outcomes
Johnson C Smith University Outcomes
North Carolina A & T State University Outcomes

What am I getting at? Something similar to what was posted earlier in this thread. If a University isn't graduating it's students it doesn't have the pool of alum to increase it's endowment. This further lessens the worth, efficiency, and effectiveness of these institutions. This could result from a variety of reasons, but I would say a few large factors would be in no particular order:

• Admitting poor quality students who cannot handle or aren't prepared for the workload (admissions)
• Having poor curriculum that's either not engaging or is washing out your students (staff)
• The cost of education forces students to leave (working multiple jobs pulls away from their education, the lack of credit worthiness doesn't afford them the ability to take out loans, DOE not handling grants properly, lack of internal scholarships)

Granted those aren't the only things that affect the schools, but most of these issue are issues brought upon themselves by poor internal administration. I don't understand the desire to say these schools are failing because the President (Obama or Trump) enacted policy to cause only the HBCUs to fail that wouldn't have harmed other universities. For the state run school you can usually point to board of directors, the governor, and state legislature for either funding or de-funding these schools. This is currently going on in Florida. For the private Universities that struggle, they either don't graduate enough alum who are successful and give back to their endowment, have enough research that brings in grants and other money, or they are just poorly run. How's that on the president either?

If you want HBCUs to perform better I think it's worth letting the bad ones fail. If you want black students to be more successful in the workforce then it needs to handled earlier in the education process. HBCUs shouldn't be seen or used as a stimulus package for the sub par. That's insulting. We shouldn't even have to have a conversation of what's better PWI or HBCU because they should meet the same standards of education. Further, students should be educated from elementary through high school so that they are able to go to any University they'd like and are prepared to receive that education and succeed.

i was just fukking with you, im not reading all that gibberish

 

[Pressure]

i was just fukking with you, im not reading all that gibberish

You'll read it if you haven't already.

 

[MrWestGrand]

Most HBCUs are under performing, low job placement, debt building endeavors. Nostalgia aside, if they aren't up to scruff they should go. There are too many "higher education" institutions that aren't actually helping their workers. And that HBCU's or PWI.

Program's need to be instituted in pushing for Entrepreneurship, with post graduate guidance.

 

[Pressure]

Program's need to be instituted in pushing for Entrepreneurship, with post graduate guidance.

That's a field we as a race are way behind.

 

[theworldismine13]

Program's need to be instituted in pushing for Entrepreneurship, with post graduate guidance.