Tim Duncan has 5 rings why isn’t he ever mentioned in top 5

Boonapalist

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I think Tim Duncan is top 5 but I take the eras they played in into account. But I could see why others wouldn’t have him top 5.

  • David Robinson post injury the first 2 years was still one of the best players in the league
  • The Spurs early success was mostly due to defense and they were still good defensively with him off the floor
  • He never averaged over 36 mins a game after his 7th season in the regular season and the Spurs were still successful
  • He could miss games or be dealing with injuries and the Spurs would still be one of the top regular season teams
  • His efficiency compared to other atg big men was lacking especially considering he wasn’t a volume scorer
  • He played for one of the greatest coaches of all time
  • The Spurs were one of the dirtiest teams in the league. And were considered boring. So a lot of people didn’t watch him
  • When the Spurs got interesting to watch he was past his prime
  • Beat mostly weak competition in the Finals. The strongest team they beat were the 05 Pistons
  • The Spurs never repeated
And also the reason every Tim Duncan is filled with Kobe talk is because Duncan wasn’t important to most people than and he’s not now. Spurs fans and NBA hipsters want him to seem more important than he is. But the Spurs were not a draw at all.
 

murksiderock

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Sam Jones has 10 and was the closer on the most dominant team in the history of American team sports and most people don't know who he is. Dude doesn't even make top 50 lists.

I've dived deep into research on the 60s Celtics several times and no lie I just finished doing so again earlier this morning (had a personal "Hondo/Elgin" comp I've been exploring for almost a week so it took me into revisiting both their teams of that time)...

Sam Jones' exclusion from Top 50 is one of the more perplexing things I've yet to wrap my head around. As you mentioned he was noted as their closer and strongest offensive player during the bulk of that dynasty, and I believe their second best player overall between Cousy (aging out) and Havlicek (maturing/growing into more of a lead role). What makes this even more strange to me is that his role seems irreplaceable to those C's in that if he wasn’t who he was they don't reach that same championship success:

•Russell was a bit more capable as a scorer than he was asked to be but there also is nothing to show he could replace the bulk of Jones' scoring if he wasnt there...

•after '61 Cousy, who was also a more capable scorer than given credit for, was essentially role player status, so he aint taking Sam's production...

•Havlicek was a dynamic offensive talent but not only couldn't he step into Sam's role immediately, I don't think he had the leadership nor skill to fill it in general...

One of the most telling finds about Havlicek, is while he won 6 titles in the Russell era, when the C's became strictly his team afterwards and he was able to continue showcasing a good all-around game people already knew he had, they missed the playoffs two years in a row with dude and didn't get back into championship contention until Cowens matured, who won ROY and MVP trophies Hondo never attained. Havlicek is an All-Timer but there's a strong correlation to his winning pedigree being buoyed by someone else who could do the heavy lifting, and there was a perception about him in the early 70s that he wasnt a winner without Russell (which is enlightening to learn that this labeling of players as "not winners" or "losers" didn't start with post-Shaq Kobe or pre-Lakers Shaq, etc. Was also spoken of about Baylor and West in the 60s and seems there's always been a big name or few in every era critics threw the "loser" tag on)...

•those other dudes from Nelson to KC to Siegfried to Howell to everyone else, just really weren't good enough to replace Sam's production were he not there...

...........

So since Sam's specific contributions and role seem irreplaceable given the rest of the squad around him, its baffling he misses so many Top 50 lists and isn't as adored within Celtics fandom. The only thing I can think of, and that I try to keep in mind, is that maybe seeing him play would clarify that while good at his job he actually wasn't irreplaceable? It's hard to come to that conclusion from the perspective of a historian looking backwards but maybe people who saw him play recognized him as little more than a high level role player...
 

malbaker86

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Duncan is routinely on top ten all time lists, nobody disrespects him, he’s praised all the time

This. He in my top 5 but this is it, he’s rated kinda right where you’d expect em to be and that’s in the top 10. Where at in that top 10 kinda fluctuates depending on who you ask
 

MyApps

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I think people should really understand what 'Greatest of All Time' Really means. It not necessarily numbers or accolades or even skill.

Its perception.

How did you leave your mark on the league and Was it original?

Did you change how players play or thought moving forward?

And were u successful while doing it?


The reason why so many people have Jordan as a consensus #1 is because he played in a way that no one thought leads to success, and DOMINATED. Even over all the Big men of the 90s, he still dominated them as a guard.

Magic was a big ass Point Guard that passed in ways not seen before and Dominated the 80s against other championship teams. He was only stopped by AIDS and injury.

Curry got the whole next gen of players jacking up threes because he was the 1st ever Unanimous MVP by being insanley devastating at shooting 3s.

Lebron got the players thinking like GMs and creating their own narratives and brands.

All these players and a few others made this game exciting in high stakes moments AND changed how fans thought about THE SPORT.
 

DropTopDoc

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Duncan gets lumped into the Spurs majesty not so much the other way around

pop gets a lot of credit

small market

he doesn’t do a ton of interviews or shows


He’s a recluse
 

feelosofer

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Power Forward/Center is not a sexy postion and the way Tim Duncan played was even less so as unfair is it is.

With that said while he's not in a lot of top 5's he's seen by many as a top 10-15 player.
 

Controversy

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How many rings Pop got without Tim? Tim was the number 1 pick from his sophomore year on at Wake Forest and had teams openly tanking for him cause they knew he was a franchise changer.

hes an all tim great, no denying that but he could only carry the full load through 06

and the trajectory of the Spurs was organization changed when Kawhi got hurt. They were chip contenders even after Tim.
 

Apprentice

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I think people should really understand what 'Greatest of All Time' Really means. It not necessarily numbers or accolades or even skill.

Its perception.

How did you leave your mark on the league and Was it original?

Did you change how players play or thought moving forward?

And were u successful while doing it?


The reason why so many people have Jordan as a consensus #1 is because he played in a way that no one thought leads to success, and DOMINATED. Even over all the Big men of the 90s, he still dominated them as a guard.

Magic was a big ass Point Guard that passed in ways not seen before and Dominated the 80s against other championship teams. He was only stopped by AIDS and injury.

Curry got the whole next gen of players jacking up threes because he was the 1st ever Unanimous MVP by being insanley devastating at shooting 3s.

Lebron got the players thinking like GMs and creating their own narratives and brands.

All these players and a few others made this game exciting in high stakes moments AND changed how fans thought about THE SPORT.
This is a great way to look at it
 

nieman

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A decade of two way dominance isn't enough breh? How many guys got longer stretches of dominating BOTH ends of the court? He took a step back offensively, but he was still a defensive force. He did what folks swear they want guys to do and that is let other cats cook. Are you really suggesting that Tim Duncan wasn't taking over playoff games breh? Swept Shaq (with more talent) out of the forum in year 2 with nobody else averaging more than 14 pts without taking over games? The year after the one you mentioned, was one of the all-time underappreciated carry jobs. They never went back to back because he was carrying the squad on his back against the likes of Kobe and Shaq and they didn't get that ref love we've seen other great squads get. You give him the squads that Shaq has had, and the ref love some of his squads have received, and he surpasses Russell and forces ya'll to call him GOAT.

He was no longer dominant though, and it definitely wasn't on both ends. Duncan would go on the block, call for it, and go into his move. He played aggressive, even when his numbers didn't jump out at you. I'd say '05 or '06 he wasn't playing the same. He was looking like a shell of himself even the '07 chip vs Lebron...I think that's the year Boozer (in Utah) made a name for himself, kept dragging Timmy out and shooting that high-arching shot over him. He looked slow in '05 vs the Pistons as well. He had about a 6-7 year run. He really started coasting after that. Like I said, he went from aggressive to Sheed...coasting. They clearly became a system team before he even had a decade in.
 

Reggie

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hes an all tim great, no denying that but he could only carry the full load through 06

and the trajectory of the Spurs was organization changed when Kawhi got hurt. They were chip contenders even after Tim.
After a decade of excellence along with 4 years of college is him not carrying the "full load" something to be ashamed of at that point. And in 07 he was still the Spurs best player even if Parker got Finals MVP.
 
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