TikTok is one step closer to being banned in the USA

[mastermind]

They got children working in Hyundai plants, Boeing airplanes glued together with soap dish, nobody's regulating any assembly

Exactly, the regulation of assembly lines point wasn‘t serious enough for me to respond to, lol.

 

[mastermind]

That's not at all what you're saying if you think the US government is doing this strictly for profit or to solely control the narrative of what Americans see.

Tbf, I think a couple Congress members said this was a reason, but I would say that’s 1% of it. This is to protect US company dominance of the internet. There are some NatSec concerns, but US companies are a much greater threat to that.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

I can't believe someone is actually arguing in favor of China's censorship of the internet. Why would we copy their model?

 

[nyknick]

I don’t believe that’s why China banned those companies And they had deals with Google in the past.

China banned those companies because they wanted their own companies to prosper.

Never even thought about it that way but that makes perfect sense. Since until recently they required foreign car companies to form joint ventures with Chinese companies.

And it's not like Google/Facebook would refuse any request from Chinese government if it allowed them access to their market.

 

[Macallik86]

I can't believe someone is actually arguing in favor of China's censorship of the internet. Why would we copy their model?

From my perspective, it's not about censoring like China. It's about protecting your citizens from the possibility of a purposefully bad-faith algorithm.

Put another way, China has to defend its citizens from pro-US algorithms promoting capitalism because of how alluring it is. In a tangentially related way, America has to defend its citizens from algorithms that have not yet attempted to sway citizens (that we know if) but has the possibility to do so. We have no insight into the TikTok algorithms, so China are basically free to push whatever they want directly into the veins of our citizens w/o oversight.

That is not sustainable for a democracy in modern times. And yes, I can appreciate the idea that historically, humans will gravitate towards the best idea, and that citizens will see propaganda for what it is and adjust, but that is not likely given the echo chambers and virality of social media.

I feel like America has a history of committing these type of psy-ops overseas that prove this tbh.I think that if we can acknowledge that we've likely overthrown regimes through astroturfing, it makes sense that game recognize game and tries to cut it off at the knees.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

From my perspective, it's not about censoring like China. It's about protecting your citizens from the possibility of a purposefully bad-faith algorithm.

Put another way, China has to defend its citizens from pro-US algorithms promoting capitalism because of how alluring it is. In a tangentially related way, America has to defend its citizens from algorithms that have not yet attempted to sway citizens (that we know if) but has the possibility to do so. We have no insight into the TikTok algorithms, so China are basically free to push whatever they want directly into the veins of our citizens w/o oversight.

That is not sustainable for a democracy in modern times. And yes, I can appreciate the idea that historically, humans will gravitate towards the best idea, and that citizens will see propaganda for what it is and adjust, but that is not likely given the echo chambers and virality of social media.

I feel like America has a history of committing these type of psy-ops overseas that prove this tbh.I think that if we can acknowledge that we've likely overthrown regimes through astroturfing, it makes sense that game recognize game and tries to cut it off at the knees.

China has bots on all social media platforms already that manipulate the algorithms. The US is doing psy-ops on it's own citizens. They are not going to shut out foreign countries from running influence campaigns because it would keep them from running the same game on us. The protecting citizens thing is a ridiculous argument.
So if your concern is algorithms, then why target TikTok and leave out Facebook/Twitter/Reddit, which are swarming with foreign bots? Regulation across all social media is one thing, but targeting TikTok alone? It doesn't pass the smell test.

It's crazy to say "not sustainable for a democracy" in defense of something so clearly undemocratic.

 

[bnew]

Of a foreign product? That's well within the purview of the US government to limit access to anything it feels is a danger to its citizens or national security.

Just like certain food products are not allowed here or abroad..come on y'all - I get some of you are anti government/establishment but you can't be serious with these arguments.

Spoiler: mirror

At the end of the day, even if TikTok is CCP propaganda, the right for Americans to receive any kind of information through any means has been upheld by the Supreme Court over and over again.

During the height of the Cold War the government tried to ban Soviet propaganda for national security reasons (sounds familiar?) and the court struck it down citing it is Americans’ constitutional right to receive foreign speeches, including propaganda.

You can debate whether the First Amendment should be changed and give the government the power to dictate what information we are allowed to see, all in the name of "national security" of course.

Hell, since we are living in Red Scare 2.0, even Chinese garlic is a national security concern apparently.

 

[bnew]

I don’t believe that’s why China banned those companies And they had deals with Google in the past.

China banned those companies because they wanted their own companies to prosper.

it's actually a policy african countries should emulate. China had no illusions that they were starting leveled playing field economically so they rightfully employed trade protectionism to allow their industries to grow and prosper.

 

[CrimsonTider]

If they make it more like the Chinese version from a content perspective, I'd be all for keeping it.

What difference does it make

 

[Hood Critic]

Spoiler: mirror

At the end of the day, even if TikTok is CCP propaganda, the right for Americans to receive any kind of information through any means has been upheld by the Supreme Court over and over again.

During the height of the Cold War the government tried to ban Soviet propaganda for national security reasons (sounds familiar?) and the court struck it down citing it is Americans’ constitutional right to receive foreign speeches, including propaganda.

You can debate whether the First Amendment should be changed and give the government the power to dictate what information we are allowed to see, all in the name of "national security" of course.

Hell, since we are living in Red Scare 2.0, even Chinese garlic is a national security concern apparently.

Yes, RECEIVE information. We don't live under an inherently censored regime who wants to force feed us how we're to supposed think and feel about it. You all are looking at this through the lens of censorship and freedoms when underlying reasons go much deeper.

The national security threat is not about propaganda, its about data and data access. The cellphone is at the heart of most first world peoples lives - arguably more so for Americans than anyone - it is the ideal attack vector for data collection as well as entry into corporate, municipal and government networks.

That is an incredible strategic advantage for an adversary country in this digital cold war age to have no control over what another nation can leverage on millions of its citizens devices.

 

[Hood Critic]

What difference does it make

Major difference between the algorithms of both nations for the same app.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Major difference between the algorithms of both nations for the same app.

So what?

 

[the next guy]

I don't agree with this.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Yes, RECEIVE information. We don't live under an inherently censored regime who wants to force feed us how we're to supposed think and feel about it. You all are looking at this through the lens of censorship and freedoms when underlying reasons go much deeper.

The national security threat is not about propaganda, its about data and data access. The cellphone is at the heart of most first world peoples lives - arguably more so for Americans than anyone - it is the ideal attack vector for data collection as well as entry into corporate, municipal and government networks.

That is an incredible strategic advantage for an adversary country in this digital cold war age to have no control over what another nation can leverage on millions of its citizens devices.

Okay, so place regulations on user data collection and the sale of it then. Facebook has literally sold user data to China, but TikTok is being singled out, why? Why is TikTok a national security threat, but not Facebook, which has been used to influence literal genocides in other countries?

I don't disagree with your concern for the harmful potential of governments having access to the data. What I disagree with is that TikTok specifically should be targeted, or that we would be safer with someone like Mnuchin controlling it. All social media platforms need to be more heavily regulated. The only reason to target TikTok specifically is becuase it is interfering with the US hegemony over the internet.

 

[Teal.]

This just like 2020 when trump was planning to ban TikTok during the election process

Now it’s Biden turn…. Trump should have just ended it in 2020.

They need to hurry up and get this circus show finished and ban it. Life will continue with the next *new* Vin-Tik-Tok.