The Official Black Conservatism Thread

[the next guy]

What do you mean by "Moving the goal post"....


Honestly, you remind me of my white peers in Class that dont understand black people. They think just because I dont support gay rights, I must hate gay people. Never once in this thread have I espoused that I hate gays. Im not gay so therefore gay marriage is not an issue that is of my concern. Im more concerned about what is going on in my community, the black community than the gay community. Gays, specifically white gays, are very privileged in this country. Blacks for the most part are still struggling with issues since slavery..My only beef with the gay rights movement is that they try to hide behind the black civil rights movement when they are fundamentally two different issues. I as a black man cant hide the fact that i am black. Gays can hide the fact that they are gay point blank period.

You know what I mean, stop playing dumb. How are they hiding being the black civil rights movement? @VictorVonDoom @The Real @Broke Wave @AquaCityBoy

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

That mean's nothing coming from you. You're funny because you rarely actually make point's you just diss post... plus you know that post wasn't ignorant, it really is the truth. In summary, issues have levels of importance in regards to certain demographics (as a whole).

If you don't agree with that, I encourage you to make an ACTUAL point! instead of being a lil b1tch constantly.... it's just old at this point.

I don't make points? Sometimes I think a post requires a thoughtful rebuttal. Sometimes I see a post so catastrophically ignorant and devoid of any intellect or human decency, I think it deserves nothing more than a basic "you're a moron" type response. Your post fell into the latter category. But if you want me to explain why, I will.

First off, calling gay people (just gay men, of course) fakkits and talking about sticking penises in asses, you just expose yourself as a blatant homophobe, as if we didn't already know from your posting history. Nothing you say about sexual orientation can really be taken with anymore credibility than Strom Thurmond's words on race. But of course you say you don't hate "fags," then you flippantly downplay and dismiss any hindrances or obstacles gay people deal with by saying "gay's aren't as oppressed and forced to hide as we like to pretend" and say "we shouldn't be on that shyt all." Which is just like some old redneck saying he doesn't hate ******s and they get all affirmative action and his granddad didn't own any slaves.

You somehow try to make it a point to dismiss, distance yourself from, and show active contempt for gay peoples' struggle for equality and against the oppression they face as if somehow it is necessary to do so advocate the advancement of black people. It's obviously not. Gay peoples' cause is not an impeding agent to black peoples' cause. It's just bigotry and pettiness on your part. They actually go hand-in-hand because they are both predicated upon the principles of human compassion for people different than you and rights of the minority against the majority. It's one thing to fear that some interests of black people may be co-opted by people with a different agenda, or different primary goals. But to just be an outright kneejerk hateful bigot like yourself is another. And it's not like there are not black gay people. If you are really pro-black or whatever you deem yourself, you can't be shytting on black people because they're gay. Bayard Rustin still doesn't get the props he deserves, nor did he get to implement fully what he had to offer to the word because of your type of thinking.

This type of ignorance and blatant moral blindspots gives you no credibility and doesn't allow you a space to be taken seriously by anyone, black people included. "I'm all for the rights and advancement of my group, but fukk those others" is not a morally or intellectually tenable or defensible position. Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot by alienating anyone, regardless or race, sexual orientation or whatever, who might be sympathetic to your views.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

This post, and the sentiment contained is so disappointingly backwards, and a real problem amongst the black intelligentcia.

For starters, you blatantly contradicted yourself by positioning the gun control issue as a "white liberal cause", yet you identified "a lil girl on the southside getting shot" as a problem. I think there is some connectivity fam.

But getting to the gay rights issue, your post is in support of this idea that in order to fight for x, we must dismiss y. Meaning in order to properly engage in black civil rights, we must show hostility towards gay rights. This is housed under the idea that gays are somehow "privileged", while they battle for basic rights that we currently enjoy.

I dont hear this sort of nonsense, consistently, from gay civil rights activists. I dont hear them say "welp, we need to not focus on black civil rights because they're not relevant. It's all about our issues". If anything, they are constantly trying to bond with our struggles, by identifying linkages and common ground in our dual subjugation at the hands of the dominant class. These are efforts that black people loudly and aggressively reject, generally speaking.

So instead of building a coalition with gay people and other groups, so that ALL issues can be brought to the fore w/ strength in numbers, black people such as yourself would rather waste time lecturing the rest of the world on how "privileged" gay people are, and how nasty their private behaviors are, and how our discriminatory environments arent at all relatable or similar. Oh yeah...praise Jesus too.

To be honest, it seems as tho black people are more energized and excited in shouting down gay people, and adopting discriminatory language that was largely reserved for us previously, than to actually fight against causes like the prison industrial complex that we supposedly care about.

So in short, I find posts like yours to be counter-productive to say the very least.

This dude always brings it. HL inaugural rookie of the year.

 

[Blackking]

I don't make points? Sometimes I think a post requires a thoughtful rebuttal. Sometimes I see a post so catastrophically ignorant and devoid of any intellect or human decency, I think it deserves nothing more than a basic "you're a moron" type response. Your post fell into the latter category. But if you want me to explain why, I will.

First off, calling gay people (just gay men, of course) fakkits and talking about sticking penises in asses, you just expose yourself as a blatant homophobe, as if we didn't already know from your posting history. Nothing you say can really be taken with anymore credibility than Strom Thurmond's words on race. But of course you say you don't hate "fags," then you flippantly downplay and dismiss any hindrances or obstacles gay people deal with by saying "gay's aren't as oppressed and forced to hide as we like to pretend" and say "we shouldn't be on that shyt all." Which is just like some old redneck saying he doesn't hate ******s and aren't really oppressed.

You somehow try to make it a point to dismiss, distance yourself from, and show active contempt for gay peoples' struggle for equality and against the oppression they face as if somehow it is necessary to do so advocate the advancement of black people. It's obviously not. Gay peoples' cause is not an impeding agent to black peoples' cause. It's just bigotry and pettiness on your part. They actually go hand-in-hand because they are both predicated upon the principles of human compassion for people different than you and rights of the minority against the majority. It's one thing to fear that some interests of black people may be co-opted by people with a different agenda, or different primary goals. But to just be an outright kneejerk hateful bigot like yourself is another. Your position is also stupid because you act like there are not black gay people. If you are really pro-black or whatever you deem yourself, you can't be shytting on black people because they're gay.

This type of ignorance and blatant moral blindspots gives you no credibility and doesn't allow you a space to be taken seriously by anyone, black people included. "I'm all for the rights and advancement of my group, but fukk those others" is not a morally or intellectually tenable or defensible position. Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot by alienating anyone, regardless or race, sexual orientation or whatever, who might be sympathetic to your views.

Yeah I was making light of that cause, because it's light, imo. I'm Not a homophobe (for what reason would I be?). And you're right about calling homos- fakkits.... I grew up with that term and so I'm desensitized to it, so, I can see how that could be taken as a diss by a small percentage of people.

Focusing on your own group first, isn't a fukk others mentality, it is simply a focused and prioritizing mentality. If others want to support issues that I'm concerned with, I'm not against that. What I do know is that black people should strive for certain things that you may not fully understand.

If someone asked me to march in a gay rights parade, I would not be interested. IF I'm asked about gay marriage, I'm like whatever, I'm not against it, but I'm not championing that either.. It's not a Major factor in the world we live in, or in the nation we live in.

Truth seem to be hard to swallow for you. Not everyone gets to sit around an act like a snappy lil b1tch on forums everyday.. some people are struggling. There are also people who may be doing really good, but are very focused on Real issues, because they know that it's more important for all of their people to improve.

 

[DEAD7]

But getting to the gay rights issue, your post is in support of this idea that in order to fight for x, we must dismiss y. Meaning in order to properly engage in black civil rights, we must show hostility towards gay rights. This is housed under the idea that gays are somehow "privileged", while they battle for basic rights that we currently enjoy.

I dont hear this sort of nonsense, consistently, from gay civil rights activists. I dont hear them say "welp, we need to not focus on black civil rights because they're not relevant. It's all about our issues". If anything, they are constantly trying to bond with our struggles, by identifying linkages and common ground in our dual subjugation at the hands of the dominant class. These are efforts that black people loudly and aggressively reject, generally speaking.

Because their movement lacks the strength of the black movement and bonding with it would further their own gains...

So instead of building a coalition with gay people and other groups, so that ALL issues can be brought to the fore w/ strength in numbers, black people such as yourself would rather waste time lecturing the rest of the world on how "privileged" gay people are, and how nasty their private behaviors are, and how our discriminatory environments arent at all relatable or similar. Oh yeah...praise Jesus too.

Bonding with an issue that an overwhelming majority of the black community disagrees with makes zero sense... You seem to be ignoring the politics of the issue.

To be honest, it seems as tho black people are more energized and excited in shouting down gay people, and adopting discriminatory language that was largely reserved for us previously, than to actually fight against causes like the prison industrial complex that we supposedly care about.
.
shouting down gay activity* there are several prominent gay figures in the black community.

And since when do blacks not speak out against the prison system or point out the injustice/bias of the system?

 

[CACtain Planet]

You know what I mean, stop playing dumb. How are they hiding being the black civil rights movement? @VictorVonDoom @The Real @Broke Wave @AquaCityBoy

No, I dont know what you mean, clarify yourself. No amount of mentions can save you as im sure some of those names would agree (if their black) that gay rights is NOT the same as black civil rights. Gays always mention the black civil rights movement as justification for marriage equality, with many positing that the black civil rights leaders of that era would have supported their agenda. To speak for those leaders in that era as it relates to their views on the gay lifestyle much less gay rights is patently dishonest of elitist gays to do which is why I dont care for their agenda.

 

[the next guy]

No, I dont know what you mean, clarify yourself. No amount of mentions can save you as im sure some of those names would agree (if their black) that gay rights is NOT the same as black civil rights. Gays always mention the black civil rights movement as justification for marriage equality, with many positing that the black civil rights leaders of that era would have supported their agenda. To speak for those leaders in that era as it relates to their views on the gay lifestyle much less gay rights is patently dishonest of elitist gays to do which is why I dont care for their agenda.

And when did I say it was the same. You said that in a pathetic attempt to protect yourself in this argument. Frankly all these people want it to get married. What is so wrong with that? I haven't said it was the same, you did. And now you are ducking and dodging.

 

[the next guy]

The problem with people like CACtain planet is that they qare just as much a part of the problem as the thugs in the street. What CACtain is doing is how people like Sharpe James formed their base over the past 30 years.

 

[DEAD7]

And when did I say it was the same. You said that in a pathetic attempt to protect yourself in this argument. Frankly all these people want it to get married. What is so wrong with that? I haven't said it was the same, you did. And now you are ducking and dodging.

Not true.

They have rejected civil unions, in several states. What they want is "marriage". Not the legal contract recognized by the state but the term "marriage" as recognized by the church.

I don't think anyone would be against them having civil unions, and receiving the same rights as everyone else.

edit: obviously there would be some people, but those people would be wrong.

 

[The Real]

The have rejected civil unions, in several states. What they want is "marriage". Not the legal contract recognized by the state but the term "marriage" as recognized by the church.

I don't think anyone would be against them having civil unions, and receiving the same rights as everyone else.

edit: obviously there would be some people, but those people would be wrong.

The problem with this argument is that civil unions actually don't give you all the same rights as a marriage does in most states. That's the main reason there is even a split between the two. And marriage is only considered a religious category by religious people. Legally, there's nothing religious about it- that would violate the constitution.

 

[DEAD7]

The problem with this argument is that civil unions actually don't give you all the same rights as a marriage does in most states. That's the main reason there is even a split between the two. And marriage is only considered a religious category by religious people. Legally, there's nothing religious about it- that would violate the constitution.

That's the thing, in instances where they are offered the exact same rights they reject it over the term "marriage". This proves they are after more than just the rights(which I think they should have for the record). I kinda turned on the issue after seeing that.

I would like to see all rights or privileges granted by marriage removed altogether. I don't think gays should be campaigning for them but rather trying to get them removed. The state shouldnt be involved in relationships.

 

[Blackking]

The problem with this argument is that civil unions actually don't give you all the same rights as a marriage does in most states. That's the main reason there is even a split between the two. And marriage is only considered a religious category by religious people. Legally, there's nothing religious about it- that would violate the constitution.

......
Marriage isn't mentioned in the constitution at all; neither is God. imo, in that case, these issues should go to a State vote, with no side calling foul at the results... whether you live in Texas or Vermont.

Not that anyone should have to do this - but I'm sure if black people could move to a State and automatically gain every right without every corporate & institutionalized racist situation, every historical mental leftover, and every socioeconomically fcked stipulation behind it.... they would consider it.


Like I said, I don't oppose gay marriage. However, most people think that not caring is really foolish due to human beings having a take a mile when given an inch mentality. It wasn't until gay marriage talks that all gay causes became factors... Now you can sue if youre transgender and someone isn't letting you pretend to be something you're not in a competition. There are sooo many variables and unnecessary factors that are going to come from the lgbt community as a whole. I feel that those things are going to actually hurt the gay rights movement.

 

[Blackking]

That's the thing, in instances where they are offered the exact same rights they reject it over the term "marriage". This proves they are after more than just the rights(which I think they should have for the record). I kinda turned on the issue after seeing that.

I would like to see all rights or privileges granted by marriage removed altogether. I don't think gays should be campaigning for them but rather trying to get them removed. The state shouldnt be involved in relationships.

There are reasonable rights given to married couples due to the type of relationship that it is. That is supposed to be a life partnership. You share everything and each shares each others concerns.
Family structures benefit communities, so you get tax benefits for your example.

Your sacrifices become their sacrifices.. so benefits for spouse for military service, government benefits, life insurance, etc.

You're building a life- so estate benefits make since u share property

You suffer when they suffer (or u should) so if someone owes them and they die you get it. You get to visit them in the hospital, etc.

So you can see why Gay's want this... however, most people can see through all that sh1t.. some of them just want to fight for the title because they've been told or they feel they are different.. and they want so say.. I am not different, I'm normal.

I feel like it's ok to be different if you embrace it.

 

[DEAD7]

There are reasonable rights given to married couples due to the type of relationship that it is.

Sure, but they are not needed, and involve the state in something it really has no business in.



Its all paved with good intentions....

 

[DEAD7]

Bullshyt. Black republicans today are certified c00nS... Why would you vote for a party that works completely against your interests

Sounds like you don't know whats in your 'best' interest.