The Official Black Conservatism Thread

[Blackking]

Sounds like you don't know whats in your 'best' interest.

Neither party has our.. or really the American peoples, best interest. I'm torn because principle wise, there are good things in both parties... however, the GOP sh1ts on the idea of attracting black voters every year, they embrace racist party members.... realistically there are some str8 up c00ns in that party... and there are some regular black people who side with them ideologically, but those aren't the ones they put on the radio or fox news -the GOP loves them a good ol c00n to parade around. Plus they are largely war hawks, pro war on drugs, anti all social programs (not just wasteful ones), extremely pro Israel, pro big business, etc - all issues that we should not vibe with as a whole.

The democrats are just off base all the way around and Very Weak when it comes to pushing a true progressive agenda; even when they have good intentions they fail..... ntm they exploit our votes and loyalty by using social dependency programs that ignore small business, education, and crime- as a way to keep us needing those programs.

That's mostly my opinion, but truth is the GOP isnt in our 'best' interest.

 

[theworldismine13]

 

[DEAD7]

@Blackking agreed

Spoiler

I think social issues are more likely to fix themselves than our fiscal issues so i lean right, but I agree with you completely.

 

[Beast]

Historically speaking, blacks in the United States have traditonally been IDEOLOGICALLY CONSERVATIVE!!! Its only been since 64' that blacks have been thought of as liberal mainly due to the marketing job far left liberals have done. So Id like to first start this thread with the great black conservative thinkers of the 20th Century

Plenty more Black Conservatives in the early 20th century but I will leave at these great gentlemen for now and we can discuss specifically why each were ideologically conservative in their own right and how their message is the blueprint for saving the black population today.

Now I caution, this thread isnt about democrats vs republicans for both parties has its racists elements (white far right southern republicans and gay far left democrats). This thread is about black conservatism in general and how different issues today are seen from the black conservative perspective.

1. Historically black political philosophy started post Civil War era as blacks accepted the popular (white conservative pushed) but flawed premise that they could live in a segregated society within the US.

This was disproven to most groups (blacks, women, immigrants) over time.

2. Blacks moved away from conservative political philosophy when they started pursuing civil rights. Funny how until you have something personally affect you living in the theoretical is easy.

The idea that the "far left" somehow corrupted blacks to believe something that is not in their best interest is laughable because within that claim is that blacks did not reason to a new political philosophy but were weak mentally and got tricked into believing something that works against their interests.

The past 45 years disproves that false idea.

3. Black conservatism in the the post Civil Rights Act era is mainly just holdovers from the pre-civil rights era by people who can't give up on the false premise of a separate but equal black society SHOULD exist in the US. It gives the fake appearance of self reliance when in fact it is just a naive notion that we all (black, white, etc.) don't need each other to succeed as individuals, groups, and as a country. Everyone needs help from someone else to get where they are going in the modern world.

MLK smashed that false premise of self reliance in his I Have a Dream speech. Though I'm not a fan of religion, MLK used the religious message that we are all God's children that should all live as one people.

Political philosophies change when real events happen in our lives as opposed to people reasoning to a certain viewpoint. I would be willing to bet that all of the men you listed in the 1st post would have seen the false premise in their beliefs at that time had they lived through the civil rights movement.

I personally think all conservative philosophy is terminally flawed. And that is a good thing for us as a country and as a people.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

1. Historically black political philosophy started post Civil War era as blacks accepted the popular (white conservative pushed) but flawed premise that they could live in a segregated society within the US.

This was disproven to most groups (blacks, women, immigrants) over time.

2. Blacks moved away from conservative political philosophy when they started pursuing civil rights. Funny how until you have something personally affect you living in the theoretical is easy.

The idea that the "far left" somehow corrupted blacks to believe something that is not in their best interest is laughable because within that claim is that blacks did not reason to a new political philosophy but were weak mentally and got tricked into believing something that works against their interests.

The past 45 years disproves that false idea.

3. Black conservatism in the the post Civil Rights Act era is mainly just holdovers from the pre-civil rights era by people who can't give up on the false premise of a separate but equal black society SHOULD exist in the US. It gives the fake appearance of self reliance when in fact it is just a naive notion that we all (black, white, etc.) don't need each other to succeed as individuals, groups, and as a country. Everyone needs help from someone else to get where they are going in the modern world.

MLK smashed that false premise of self reliance in his I Have a Dream speech. Though I'm not a fan of religion, MLK used the religious message that we are all God's children that should all live as one people.

Political philosophies change when real events happen in our lives as opposed to people reasoning to a certain viewpoint. I would be willing to bet that all of the men you listed in the 1st post would have seen the false premise in their beliefs at that time had they lived through the civil rights movement.

I personally think all conservative philosophy is terminally flawed. And that is a good thing for us as a country and as a people.

Please post more.

 

[CACtain Planet]

1. Historically black political philosophy started post Civil War era as blacks accepted the popular (white conservative pushed) but flawed premise that they could live in a segregated society within the US.

This was disproven to most groups (blacks, women, immigrants) over time.

2. Blacks moved away from conservative political philosophy when they started pursuing civil rights. Funny how until you have something personally affect you living in the theoretical is easy.

The idea that the "far left" somehow corrupted blacks to believe something that is not in their best interest is laughable because within that claim is that blacks did not reason to a new political philosophy but were weak mentally and got tricked into believing something that works against their interests.

The past 45 years disproves that false idea.

3. Black conservatism in the the post Civil Rights Act era is mainly just holdovers from the pre-civil rights era by people who can't give up on the false premise of a separate but equal black society SHOULD exist in the US. It gives the fake appearance of self reliance when in fact it is just a naive notion that we all (black, white, etc.) don't need each other to succeed as individuals, groups, and as a country. Everyone needs help from someone else to get where they are going in the modern world.

MLK smashed that false premise of self reliance in his I Have a Dream speech. Though I'm not a fan of religion, MLK used the religious message that we are all God's children that should all live as one people.

Political philosophies change when real events happen in our lives as opposed to people reasoning to a certain viewpoint. I would be willing to bet that all of the men you listed in the 1st post would have seen the false premise in their beliefs at that time had they lived through the civil rights movement.

I personally think all conservative philosophy is terminally flawed. And that is a good thing for us as a country and as a people.

1. Your first point is patently false. Black political philosophy developed well before the civil war. Benjamin Banneker, Prince Hall, Phyllis Wheatly, Absalom Jones, Frederick Douglas were all blacks who developed political thought before the civil war and DID NOT subscribe to white conservative ideology. However, they did subscribe to the black community having their own institutions (Ex. Prince Hall founded the first Masonic lodge for blacks in 1775, Absalom Jones help founded the African Methodist Church in 1804. In fact, both of these men founded these institution because LIBERAL whites in the North did not allow them to integrate into the white lodges and white methodist churches) in their letters and they all subscribed to freedom as the number 1 goal for blacks in America. Further more, many blacks in America followed the Haitian revolution closely since it started in 1791 and cheered on the Haitians due to the ideology that blacks could run their own country in the western hemisphere

2. Politically speaking before 1964, blacks were never solidly on the "conservative side" or "liberal side".. If you look back as recently as the 1960 election, both Richard M Nixon and John F Kennedy vied heavily for the black vote. Some blacks continued to side with republicans up until that point because Republicans were the part of Lincoln. Some blacks sided with Democrats because of the New Deal and fair deal policies. So again your wrong here, but im glad to clear this up for you.

3. And yea about MLK, did you know towards the end of his life Dr. Martin Luther King regretted Integration?

I fear that I am integrating my people into a burning house

... And to your point about his religious message of "we are all God's children that should all live as one people." thats a universal Ideal, not conservative or liberal... and Im willing to bet that all of the men I listed would be even more disgusted today because of the stalled progress of the black community, especially with all of these liberal policy programs in place.

 

[Beast]

1. Your first point is patently false. Black political philosophy developed well before the civil war. Benjamin Banneker, Prince Hall, Phyllis Wheatly, Absalom Jones, Frederick Douglas were all blacks who developed political thought before the civil war and DID NOT subscribe to white conservative ideology. However, they did subscribe to the black community having their own institutions (Ex. Prince Hall founded the first Masonic lodge for blacks in 1775, Absalom Jones help founded the African Methodist Church in 1804. In fact, both of these men founded these institution because LIBERAL whites in the North did not allow them to integrate into the white lodges and white methodist churches) in their letters and they all subscribed to freedom as the number 1 goal for blacks in America. Further more, many blacks in America followed the Haitian revolution closely since it started in 1791 and cheered on the Haitians due to the ideology that blacks could run their own country in the western hemisphere

2. Politically speaking before 1964, blacks were never solidly on the "conservative side" or "liberal side".. If you look back as recently as the 1960 election, both Richard M Nixon and John F Kennedy vied heavily for the black vote. Some blacks continued to side with republicans up until that point because Republicans were the part of Lincoln. Some blacks sided with Democrats because of the New Deal and fair deal policies. So again your wrong here, but im glad to clear this up for you.

3. And yea about MLK, did you know towards the end of his life Dr. Martin Luther King regretted Integration? ... And to your point about his religious message of "we are all God's children that should all live as one people." thats a universal Ideal, not conservative or liberal... and Im willing to bet that all of the men I listed would be even more disgusted today because of the stalled progress of the black community, especially with all of these liberal policy programs in place.

1. Do you always think in absolutes? Of course you do. You're conservative. The fact that there were a few black political philosophers spread out across the country with zero power does not invalidate my claim that conservative black philosophy did not become mainstream until post civil war.

PS. White conservative political ideology was that blacks should live in their own society segregated from whites. Funny how many of the people you listed believed in black nationalism too after being former slaves.

2. You have introduced another falsehood. That northerners were purely liberal. That is the biggest joke of all. There is a reason that it took a Civil Rights Act to guarantee rights for blacks in America. Most of the north wanted slavery to continue post civil war. Conservatives exist up north too.

PS. You confirmed what I said about black political philosophy being in line with conservative white political philosophy. White conservatives wanted blacks to live segregated from the white world. There is a reason that whites in the south set up their towns with a dividing line like a railroad track with the black part of town. Some still exist today in Mississippi where they just abolished slavery on February 7, 2013.

3. MLK never regretted integration. The quote you provided only voiced MLK's fear that his pursuit of civil rights was not going to lead to the promise land but back to Jim Crow or the black codes. King feared white people in government might not be able to deliver on their promises. You know since 99% of people in congress were WHITE and still didn't want to clean up the legacy of slavery in America.

PS. PhD Philosophy Georgetown ... You better run your ideas past me in the future so you don't post such nonsense anymore.

Your effort to protect everything conservative was transparent garbage. Hence why Dikembe rejected it.

 

[CACtain Planet]

1. Do you always think in absolutes? Of course you do. You're conservative. The fact that there were a few black political philosophers spread out across the country with zero power does not invalidate my claim that conservative black philosophy did not become mainstream until post civil war.

PS. White conservative political ideology was that blacks should live in their own society segregated from whites. Funny how many of the people you listed believed in black nationalism too after being former slaves.

2. You have introduced another falsehood. That northerners were purely liberal. That is the biggest joke of all. There is a reason that it took a Civil Rights Act to guarantee rights for blacks in America. Most of the north wanted slavery to continue post civil war. Conservatives exist up north too.

PS. You confirmed what I said about black political philosophy being in line with conservative white political philosophy. White conservatives wanted blacks to live segregated from the white world. There is a reason that whites in the south set up their towns with a dividing line like a railroad track with the black part of town. Some still exist today in Mississippi where they just abolished slavery on February 7, 2013.

3. MLK never regretted integration. The quote you provided only voiced MLK's fear that his pursuit of civil rights was not going to lead to the promise land but back to Jim Crow or the black codes. King feared white people in government might not be able to deliver on their promises. You know since 99% of people in congress were WHITE and still didn't want to clean up the legacy of slavery in America.

PS. PhD Philosophy Georgetown ... You better run your ideas past me in the future so you don't post such nonsense anymore.

Your effort to protect everything conservative was transparent garbage. Hence why Dikembe rejected it.

1. Actually it does invalidate your claim because like you said, Blacks had ZERO power in the North and South.. But they still created their own institutions. Why did they do that? Because of the conservative ideology of SELF HELP. They had no choice because Government before the civil war didnt guarantee any black person citizenship in no part of the country. And white conservative ideology before the civil war was that all blacks were slaves. The liberal ideology was that slaves should be free. Thats where it begins and ends. Whites across ALL IDEOLOGIES before the civil war did not think of blacks as CITIZENS.. even the supreme court in 1857 in the Dred Scott decision ruled that Blacks WERE NOT CITIZENS anywhere. So where did that leave the free black man? He had to do for himself in every part of the country without government which therefore caused him to be conservative.


2. Again false all the way around. Its true that most liberals in the north were abolitionist... BUT, some preferred for blacks to be shipped off via the American Colonization Society (another white liberal invention) to Liberia, Haiti, and later New Mexico territory. Southern slave owners also supported the American Colonization Society because they wanted to keep their slave and wanted all free blacks in the south to be removed from the states all together so they could not organize revolts among the slave. And guess who was the biggest American Colonization Society supporter of all?

Many black elites during the early 1860's resented Lincoln because of his support of ACS. However, Lincoln was just espousing a part of the white liberal philosophy of his day. In those days, opposition to ACS was considered conservative.

3. On some levels King did regret integration because it didnt address ECONOMIC EQUALITY pf blacks which was the jist of his ideology after 1966...






And as far as your little philosophy degree

Ive been trained by the very best in this business

Dr. Asa Hilliard

Dr. Naim Akbar

My effort isnt to paint everything conservative.. what I present here is that blacks HAD to be conservative at certain points in history because the white elites and politicians in government from all political parties and ideologies did not tolerate them in their public spaces. So blacks had to do for themselves

 

[Blackking]

1. Do you always think in absolutes? Of course you do. You're conservative.


PS. PhD Philosophy Georgetown ... You better run your ideas past me in the future so you don't post such nonsense anymore.

You Personally… KEY WORD, personally ‘think’ ALL conservative philosophy is flawed. That simply means that you have an extremely biased opinion for whatever reason, and you use a non-technical social degree to give credibility to your biased and grossly misinformed opinion.

Then posters come dap you because it seems like you made good points, and it sorta fits into their own personal ideology. I guess it doesn’t matter that you’re incorrect and historically inaccurate.

To start off by saying that black political philosophy started post-civil war and only borrowed ideas from White conservatives is inaccurate. Black conservatives weren’t ineffective and obscure pre-civil war. You say they were, but based on what, compared to what? As blacks gained power and prominence in American society – both black liberal and black conservative ideologies paralleled that gain in influence. And FYI no black political philosophy is mainstream, even today in 2013.

You’re equating black oppression with white conservative ideas.. which is sad as hell. That is the reason that white liberal ideology is more troublesome in most instances, because it’s more difficult to dig yourself out of a hole – if you’re under the impression that no one is holding you there and that the way you got there is the same way you can get out (aka white liberal ideas). At least black conservatives (who aren’t simply puppets) realize what needs to happen, and realize that self-sufficiency not handouts is the most effective means of self-preservation and improvement. I've used every handout, even food stamps, etc... But I realize that dependance shouldn't be for us.

The ‘far left’ didn’t trick black people into anything… And that’s not the idea or point a black conservative would make. The truth is that blacks were originally enslaved ,then oppressed, then banned from equal opportunity… and finally forced into communities with limited resources… so far left ‘dependency on government and others; as long as you side on the frivolous leftist issues as well’ agenda was very appealing towards the bottom classed of our society. Black politicians and media figures pushed the masses towards the end goal of over 90% of us giving blind votes and accepting our continued demise via dependency and false precipitation of full acceptance.

You have MLK and his ideas all wrong. Completely wrong, so get your money back.

You can’t say that the original black conservative ideology is simply a copy of white conservative ideology. First off, black people can think for themselves, and have done it for millions of years, refined it over 200K years ago, and have only had to deal with horrible intentions for about 6K years.

Black liberal agendas aren’t always a copy of white ideas either. There are cross over ideas, but there are different goals and motivation. Today the motivation is to correct our current ills and increase economic power. Post slavery the white conservatives wanted segregation as a method of continued oppression. Black conservatives wanted to consolidate economic power and also (correctly) assumed the smart thing to do wasn’t to beg, cry, and compromise for a seat at the table you help to build – but to build your own table, of course within the framework of the society you were forced to be a part of; however, the end goal is to be prosperous and focus on your community taking advantage of the opportunities that were once denied.

Do you even realize how dangerous it is to have this glamorized idea that only the conservative South wanted segregation, the whites in the north were ok, white liberals would have promoted black causes and marched- even without black conservative and black religious figures putting the catalyst out there, and that liberal ideology is the savior of the blacks in America?

 

[Piff Perkins]

Blacks were largely a republican/conservative voting bloc after Lincoln freed the slaves and black men were able to vote. The tide began to turn in 1927 after the Great Mississippi Flood. Herbert Hoover promised a lot of shyt to black people during the clean up process, but reneged on his promises after becoming president. That led to many blacks turning to FDR and the New Deal. Still due to the progressive nature of the republican party on civil rights, many blacks did stay with the GOP.

Both Nixon and Kennedy fought over the black vote in 1960, but Kennedy would secure it as president due to his dealings with MLK and the fight for the civil rights act. Johnson secured the black vote by passing the 1964 CRA, and the republican party ultimately burned any good will they had with blacks throughout the late 60s - from Governor Reagan disarming the Black Panthers in California to Nixon's Southern Strategy
The Living Room Candidate - Commercials - 1972 - McGovern Welfare
sound familiar?

So I'll reject the notion that black people are natural conservatives, or that we should be republicans because Booker T Washington (who casually told anti-black jokes to entertain whites in Washington) was a republican. That republican party was more liberal/progressive on civil rights than today's GOP.

Minorities in the US have always been practical voters: they vote for whoever has their best interest in mind. Irish Americans have historically voted democrat due to the anti-Irish resentment of eastern republicans during the 19th century, and the fact that democrats gave them an opportunity to run their own communities politically. Hispanics have voted democrat for decades due to right wing fear mongering on immigration; Bill Clinton won a higher percentage of Hispanics in 1992 than Obama did in 2012, Hispanics didn't vote for Reagan, etc. Cubans have largely been a republican voting block due to the Bay of Pigs, although Obama surprisingly won that group last year. And as I have detailed, blacks voted republican after Lincoln freed the slaves, then voted democrat after the CRA.

In short, when you act like a dikk to entire groups of people, that group won't support you. I respect my black republican friends irl and here, but don't act like the last meaningful thing to happen to the black political experience in the US was a republican freeing the slaves. Stop pretending like dixiecrats didn't largely leave the democratic party in the 60s-70s due to civil rights.

 

[marleyg]

 

[DEAD7]

but don't act like the last meaningful thing to happen to the black political experience in the US was a republican freeing the slaves.

 

[marleyg]

do yall know that the republican party in lincolns days was actually the liberal party of that time .. at some point it flipped , rolled over , dont know what to call it , but lincoln would have been a democrat by todays standards

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

If we followed the teachings of Marcus Garvey, Booker T Washington, and other great conservative negro leaders, black people would be SOO much better off.

 

[DEAD7]

If we followed the teachings of Marcus Garvey, Booker T Washington, and other great conservative negro leaders, black people would be SOO much better off.