The Official Black Conservatism Thread

[CACtain Planet]

There is no black civil rights movement. There is one civil rights movement.

Is this CAC serious?

The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative.

Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro’s friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political “football game” that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.

Politically the American Negro is nothing but a football and the white liberals control this mentally dead ball through tricks of tokenism: false promises of integration and civil rights. In this profitable game of deceiving and exploiting the politics of the American Negro, those white liberals have the willing cooperation of the Negro civil rights leaders. These “leaders” sell out our people for just a few crumbs of token recognition and token gains. These “leaders” are satisfied with token victories and token progress because they themselves are nothing but token leaders….

Im glad brother Malcolm spoke about your kind years ago... the Gay rights movement is NOT the same as the Black Civil Rights movement.. Holla at me when fakkits go through this to attain "marriage rights"

 

[No_bammer_weed]

How are theories of economic progressives going to close the gap of the unemployment rate between whites and blacks? How has liberal economic policies such as War on Poverty and New Deal programs address the unemployment rate int he black community which has been double that of whites since as early as the 50's?

We're going to take this step-by-step here. Please stay focused, brotha.

We'll start with the poverty graph:

Black poverty was at an astronomical 55% clip, in the late 50s, before the great society set of domestic policies took shape. By the late 60s/early 70s, that number was down to slightly above 30%, which is a staggering bit of economic phenomenon. The goals and directives of addressing inequality and its inherent consequences, were being met in a substantial way.


Next graph unemployment rate:

So here we see that the black unemployment rate was also responsive to the great society initiatives. In '72 the unemployment rate was 5% higher than whites, which is a fair assimilation into the economy, given the terminal condition black America was in 10 years earlier. Clearly the data shows that black America was establishing its collective footing, and weren't just accepting handouts (racist notion). This also reflects what we know about Black America at the time, with its various social empowering movements, which acted in concert with governmentally supported agency.

Enter conservative revolution:

The Conservative Century: From Reaction to Revolution - Gregory L. Schneider - Google Books

With conservative America on the ropes, wealthy and influential republican power brokers formed think tanks and coalition groups in the early 70s, in order to greatly influence political legislation. One of the expressed purposes of this movement was to take back the gains made by black America (and apparently these are the same people Malcolm X/Garvey would have politically aligned with according to you), and the middle class which was seen as too accepting of counter-culture values. From the above economic graph we see an immediate ebbing of employment among black America (owed to the economic conditions at the time). This leads into an overall governing thesis, which defeats the whole notion that welfare is the root cause of black dysfunction, but we'll get to that in a minute.

But back to the unemployment figure...where do you identify the biggest cleavage between white and black employment? Of course, during the reagan years. By this point, the neo-liberal, anti black policies began to take hold. As a result, black unemployment shot up to 20%. How could this development owe itself to the expansion of welfare, close to 20 years after its implementation?

Again, going back to that figure, your premise is defeated. We observe a clear, patterned employment behavior of blacks and whites which acts in concordance with each other. As white unemployment goes up or down, so does black unemployment. Now if what you said was true, and that blacks simply were satisfied with welfare and had little interest in working as a collective, the graph wouldnt move in such a way. Black employment would stay relatively fixed, and resemble almost a flatline, because black people wouldnt feel motivated to work. But the data shows the same agency to work between blacks and whites, however there are social barriers (explained through variables of inequality in hiring, housing, and the judicial), which keeps black America at bay.

I could go on and on about the implications of different administrations. (blacks responded most favorably to the Nixon/Clinton years for very specific reasons....nixon was a racialist, but stanchly against neo-liberal economic policies which were a direct benefit to black America, while the clinton years were the only years to stem the tide of economic distribution inequality...to the implications of the mexican employment rate has always been lower than blacks, but the poverty rate is consistent w/ blacks because hispanics are also shut out of meaningful employment opportunities)

The bottom line is this. Your adoption of welfare as the root cause of dysfunction within black america, is an apriori acceptance of racist explanations. Welfare dependance is the EFFECT of judicial injustice, imbalance in economic distribution (which the govt. should effectively regulate, and when in times of economic opportunity blacks respond well to), and destructive measures like cointellipro, housing and employment discrimination, etc, etc.

 

[CACtain Planet]

We're going to take this step-by-step here. Please stay focused, brotha.

We'll start with the poverty graph:

Black poverty was at an astronomical 55% clip, in the late 50s, before the great society set of domestic policies took shape. By the late 60s/early 70s, that number was down to slightly above 30%, which is a staggering bit of economic phenomenon. The goals and directives of addressing inequality and its inherent consequences, were being met in a substantial way.


Next graph unemployment rate:

So here we see that the black unemployment rate was also responsive to the great society initiatives. In '72 the unemployment rate was 5% higher than whites, which is a fair assimilation into the economy, given the terminal condition black America was in 10 years earlier. Clearly the data shows that black America was establishing its collective footing, and weren't just accepting handouts (racist notion). This also reflects what we know about Black America at the time, with its various social empowering movements, which acted in concert with governmentally supported agency.

Enter conservative revolution:

The Conservative Century: From Reaction to Revolution - Gregory L. Schneider - Google Books

With conservative America on the ropes, wealthy and influential republican power brokers formed think tanks and coalition groups in the early 70s, in order to greatly influence political legislation. One of the expressed purposes of this movement was to take back the gains made by black America (and apparently these are the same people Malcolm X/Garvey would have politically aligned with according to you), and the middle class which was seen as too accepting of counter-culture values. From the above economic graph we see an immediate ebbing of employment among black America (owed to the economic conditions at the time). This leads into an overall governing thesis, which defeats the whole notion that welfare is the root cause of black dysfunction, but we'll get to that in a minute.

But back to the unemployment figure...where do you identify the biggest cleavage between white and black employment? Of course, during the reagan years. By this point, the neo-liberal, anti black policies began to take hold. As a result, black unemployment shot up to 20%. How could this development owe itself to welfare, close to 20 years after its implementation?

Again, going back to that figure, your premise is defeated. We observe a clear, patterned employment behavior of blacks and whites which acts in concordance with each other. As white unemployment goes up or down, so does black unemployment. Now if what you said was true, and that blacks simply were satisfied with welfare and had little interest in working as a collective, the graph wouldnt move in such a way. Black employment would stay relatively fixed, and resemble almost a flatline, because black people wouldnt feel motivated to work. But the data shows the same agency to work between blacks and whites, however there are social barriers (explained through variables of inequality in hiring, housing, and the judicial), which keeps black America at bay.

I could go on and on about the implications of different administrations. (blacks responded most favorably to the Nixon/Clinton years for very specific reasons....nixon was a racialist, but stanchly against neo-liberal economic policies which were a direct benefit to black America, while the clinton years were the only years to stem the tide of economic distribution inequality...to the implications of the mexican employment rate has always been lower than blacks, but the poverty rate is consistent w/ blacks because hispanics are also shut out of meaningful employment opportunities)

The bottom line is this. Your adoption of welfare as the root cause of dysfunction within black america, is an apriori acceptance of racist explanations. Welfare dependance is the EFFECT of judicial injustice, imbalance in economic distribution (which the govt. should effectively regulate, and when in times of economic opportunity blacks respond well to), and destructive measures like cointellipro, housing and employment discrimination, etc, etc.

In your first point, the poverty rate in general had gone thanks to a number of factors but especially due to the as wars (more factory jobs for blacks) increased. Yet still in the 70's black poverty hovered over 30% and in some years increase while white poverty continued to decrease... So why didnt these liberal economic policies help decrease the black poverty level below 30%?

To your second point, black unemployment rate in '72 hovered at 12% while white unemployment hovered at 5% which is more than double which is what ive been repeating in this thread time and time again. The great society programs of the 40's, 50's and 60's did nothing to address this and in some years the black unemployment rate was double that of whites.

So again, you didnt address my question of what liberal policies or ideologies are essential to decreasing the unemployment rate gap between whites and blacks much less lead to income equality between whites and blacks.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

In your first point, the poverty rate in general had gone thanks to a number of factors but especially due to the as wars (more factory jobs for blacks) increased. Yet still in the 70's black poverty hovered over 30% and in some years increase while white poverty continued to decrease... So why didnt these liberal economic policies help decrease the black poverty level below 30%?

To your second point, black unemployment rate in '72 hovered at 12% while white unemployment hovered at 5% which is more than double which is what ive been repeating in this thread time and time again. The great society programs of the 40's, 50's and 60's did nothing to address this and in some years the black unemployment rate was double that of whites.

So again, you didnt address my question of what liberal policies or ideologies are essential to decreasing the unemployment rate gap between whites and blacks much less lead to income equality between whites and blacks.

The specific set of great society programs, and expansion of aid, were passed in the 60s. Again, before these acts and legislative requests were passed, the black poverty and unemployment rate were astronomical.

And you are starting to challenge your own thesis. When you attribute the dip in poverty and unemployment to "factory jobs", what sense does that make? Your thesis is that welfare robs the motivation for blacks to work, and establish self-suffiency. So why in the fck would black people run off to a damn factory job, when they could just sit around and collect welfare? Thats the conservative rule of thumb, correct?

And why have the poverty and unemployment rates fluctuated so violently over the past 40 years? Why do black unemployment rates move in lockstep with white rates? Blacks just want to stay on welfare and not work, because our liberal daddies made welfare available. Right?

 

[DEAD7]

The mirage of equality will continue to hold society back from reaching its true potential.

 

[Blackking]

I was going to ride with the black conservatives, but smh. You can't ignore history, ill intentions of the 1% towards those on the bottom, and the social-economic impact of the war on drugs, prison industrial complex, racial politics, government dependancy, and intentional brain washing, etc.

I agree with self-sufficiency and moving forward - the way to do that isn't to ignore history and call the Reasons, excuses.

 

[CACtain Planet]

I was going to ride with the black conservatives, but smh. You can't ignore history, ill intentions of the 1% towards those on the bottom, and the social-economic impact of the war on drugs, prison industrial complex, racial politics, government dependancy, and intentional brain washing, etc.

I agree with self-sufficiency and moving forward - the way to do that isn't to ignore history and call the Reasons, excuses.

I agree with you, history should never be redacted. People like @the next guy try their best to muddy up black history for the purposes of redacting the role that ideological conservative principles of self help and self reliance played in blacks surviving the racist acts of violence and policies of this country.. to me, the intentions of the 1% which are Liberals and conservatives as well as the War on Drugs, prison industrial complex, racial politics, and government dependency is a collusion of elitist whites (democrats, republicans, liberals, conservatives, neoliberals) to try to suppress blacks, specifically the black underclass. But like you I believe the best way for the black community to combat these forces is getting back to the to the ideals of self help and self sufficiency.. for example, only the black community can fix the gun violence in Chicago, not white liberal elite policies ..Only the black community can fix black male high school dropout rate, not white liberal elite policies, etc

 

[the next guy]

I agree with you, history should never be redacted. People like @the next guy try their best to muddy up black history for the purposes of redacting the role that ideological conservative principles of self help and self reliance played in blacks surviving the racist acts of violence and policies of this country.. to me, the intentions of the 1% which are Liberals and conservatives as well as the War on Drugs, prison industrial complex, racial politics, and government dependency is a collusion of elitist whites (democrats, republicans, liberals, conservatives, neoliberals) to try to suppress blacks, specifically the black underclass. But like you I believe the best way for the black community to combat these forces is getting back to the to the ideals of self help and self sufficiency.. for example, only the black community can fix the gun violence in Chicago, not white liberal elite policies ..Only the black community can fix black male high school dropout rate, not white liberal elite policies, etc

Moving the goal posts. You hate gay people. Just admit it. Stop acting like a kid, changing the subject.



One question: Do you support Gay Marriage?

 

[Blackking]

Moving the goal posts. You hate gay people. Just admit it. Stop acting like a kid, changing the subject.



One question: Do you support Gay Marriage?

lol, how is he going to say alllll that and you come back with, naw u hate f@gs.

Maybe he does hate them... however, the evidence of that hate isn't in his non support of gay marriage. I'm kinda whatever about Gay marriage but I don't support it at all. I don't hate gays though. Why would anyone support gay marriage or even waste time thinking about that sh1t when there are actual relevant issues in this nation?

I guess, men sticking their penises up another man's ass while wearing a wedding ring and high heels- is going to solve the prison industrial complex and cause some lil girl on southside Chi not to get hit with a stray bullet while walking to school.

We can waste our time even speaking on Gay marriage (and other white liberal agendas, saving bugs and worms, non-competitive sports, like ignoring mental/social-economic issues while banning guns ) .. pushing that gay marriage sh1t, when Gays have their rights and position in society. Gay's aren't as oppressed and forced to hide as we like to pretend. No we shouldn't be on that sh1t at all.

Gay black men should be solely focused on 1st just being fakkts if they are gay and not being on the down low. 2nd focus on black liberation, education, and self sufficiency, just like the rest of us should be focused on. 3rd, the other problems with this nation that effect all. In that order.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

lol, how is he going to say alllll that and you come back with, naw u hate f@gs.

Maybe he does hate them... however, the evidence of that hate isn't in his non support of gay marriage. I'm kinda whatever about Gay marriage but I don't support it at all. I don't hate gays though. Why would anyone support gay marriage or even waste time thinking about that sh1t when there are actual relevant issues in this nation?

I guess, men sticking their penises up another man's ass while wearing a wedding ring and high heels- is going to solve the prison industrial complex and cause some lil girl on southside Chi not to get hit with a stray bullet while walking to school.

We can waste our time even speaking on Gay marriage (and other white liberal agendas, like ignoring mental/social-economic issues while banning guns ) .. pushing that gay marriage sh1t, when Gays have their rights and position in society. Gay's aren't as oppressed and forced to hide as we like to pretend. No we shouldn't be on that sh1t at all.

Gay black men should be solely focused on 1st just being fakkts if they are gay and not being on the down low. 2nd focus on black liberation, education, and self sufficiency, just like the rest of us should be focused on. 3rd, the other problems with this nation that effect all. In that order.

Jesus christ what an ignorant fukking post.

 

[Blackking]

Jesus christ what an ignorant fukking post.

That mean's nothing coming from you. You're funny because you rarely actually make point's you just diss post... plus you know that post wasn't ignorant, it really is the truth. In summary, issues have levels of importance in regards to certain demographics (as a whole).

If you don't agree with that, I encourage you to make an ACTUAL point! instead of being a lil b1tch constantly.... it's just old at this point.

 

[CACtain Planet]

Moving the goal posts. You hate gay people. Just admit it. Stop acting like a kid, changing the subject.



One question: Do you support Gay Marriage?

What do you mean by "Moving the goal post"....


Honestly, you remind me of my white peers in Class that dont understand black people. They think just because I dont support gay rights, I must hate gay people. Never once in this thread have I espoused that I hate gays. Im not gay so therefore gay marriage is not an issue that is of my concern. Im more concerned about what is going on in my community, the black community than the gay community. Gays, specifically white gays, are very privileged in this country. Blacks for the most part are still struggling with issues since slavery..My only beef with the gay rights movement is that they try to hide behind the black civil rights movement when they are fundamentally two different issues. I as a black man cant hide the fact that i am black. Gays can hide the fact that they are gay point blank period.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

lol, how is he going to say alllll that and you come back with, naw u hate f@gs.

Maybe he does hate them... however, the evidence of that hate isn't in his non support of gay marriage. I'm kinda whatever about Gay marriage but I don't support it at all. I don't hate gays though. Why would anyone support gay marriage or even waste time thinking about that sh1t when there are actual relevant issues in this nation?

I guess, men sticking their penises up another man's ass while wearing a wedding ring and high heels- is going to solve the prison industrial complex and cause some lil girl on southside Chi not to get hit with a stray bullet while walking to school.

We can waste our time even speaking on Gay marriage (and other white liberal agendas, saving bugs and worms, non-competitive sports, like ignoring mental/social-economic issues while banning guns ) .. pushing that gay marriage sh1t, when Gays have their rights and position in society. Gay's aren't as oppressed and forced to hide as we like to pretend. No we shouldn't be on that sh1t at all.

Gay black men should be solely focused on 1st just being fakkts if they are gay and not being on the down low. 2nd focus on black liberation, education, and self sufficiency, just like the rest of us should be focused on. 3rd, the other problems with this nation that effect all. In that order.

This post, and the sentiment contained is so disappointingly backwards, and a real problem amongst the black intelligentcia.

For starters, you blatantly contradicted yourself by positioning the gun control issue as a "white liberal cause", yet you identified "a lil girl on the southside getting shot" as a problem. I think there is some connectivity fam.

But getting to the gay rights issue, your post is in support of this idea that in order to fight for x, we must dismiss y. Meaning in order to properly engage in black civil rights, we must show hostility towards gay rights. This is housed under the idea that gays are somehow "privileged", while they battle for basic rights that we currently enjoy.

I dont hear this sort of nonsense, consistently, from gay civil rights activists. I dont hear them say "welp, we need to not focus on black civil rights because they're not relevant. It's all about our issues". If anything, they are constantly trying to bond with our struggles, by identifying linkages and common ground in our dual subjugation at the hands of the dominant class. These are efforts that black people loudly and aggressively reject, generally speaking.

So instead of building a coalition with gay people and other groups, so that ALL issues can be brought to the fore w/ strength in numbers, black people such as yourself would rather waste time lecturing the rest of the world on how "privileged" gay people are, and how nasty their private behaviors are, and how our discriminatory environments arent at all relatable or similar. Oh yeah...praise Jesus too.

To be honest, it seems as tho black people are more energized and excited in shouting down gay people, and adopting discriminatory language that was largely reserved for us previously, than to actually fight against causes like the prison industrial complex that we supposedly care about.

So in short, I find posts like yours to be counter-productive to say the very least.

 

[DEAD7]

I see this is gonna turn into a gay rights thread.




Sexual orientation is a behavior, race is not. The two are not the same, and people really should stop with the side by side comparisons.

 

[Blackking]

This post, and the sentiment contained is so disappointingly backwards, and a real problem amongst the black intelligentcia.

so... understand what I'm really saying. And no, I'm not an intellect., if I was 'what you consider' a black intellect, more than likely I would be part of the problem and I wouldn't have typed anything that I typed previously.

For starters, you blatantly contradicted yourself by positioning the gun control issue as a "white liberal cause", yet you identified "a lil girl on the southside getting shot" as a problem. I think there is some connectivity fam.

I know that violence is a problem, but I have a stem and a business degree. however my best degree is the easiest to get, most irrelevant degree I received... Criminal Justice. A person who knows anything about anything knows that the guns aren't the issue. 1st- gun control only stops legally purchased weapons... criminals have no issues getting weapons and bullets, and in America there are enuf smugglers and current guns to go around for a long time. The TRUE reasons that a lil girl WIll for sure get popped today as we type, has everything to do with the resources in her community and the prison industrial complex that has destroyed the structure of her community.
I support background checks and some control.. but the current gun control talks can't produce results and only = white liberal ideology. The only "connectivity fam" is what X said about that sort of thinking.

But getting to the gay rights issue, your post is in support of this idea that in order to fight for x, we must dismiss y. Meaning in order to properly engage in black civil rights, we must show hostility towards gay rights. This is housed under the idea that gays are somehow "privileged", while they battle for basic rights that we currently enjoy.

My post wasn't saying that people should dismiss all issues. But we all have our issues, what's important is our people (whoever your people are) as a whole.. The Gay thing is not a civil rights issue. If I was gay, my life would be the same except I would like d1ck. If my family didn't accept my boyfriends and myself then, I would just have to deal with that. I live in a 'hipster' neighborhood fill with unique people, so my perception may be off, but gay's (as far as I know) aren't being killed or beaten in-mass, hung, denied basic rights... also they are considered cool in some circles, etc. So we shouldn't show towards hostility towards gay rights, but I also care about the rights of Palestinians.. 95% of any any talk or action I do will stay on my people here, where it should be. Gays are not an oppressed group, so y focus on that when there are real issues?

I dont hear this sort of nonsense, consistently, from gay civil rights activists. I dont hear them say "welp, we need to not focus on black civil rights because they're not relevant. It's all about our issues". If anything, they are constantly trying to bond with our struggles, by identifying linkages and common ground in our dual subjugation at the hands of the dominant class. These are efforts that black people loudly and aggressively reject, generally speaking.

There is a difference between bond and piggyback. Their bonding hasn't helped black struggle, nor does it have the ability to. And their causes aren't rejected, their causes are just one the minor issues in our society that can be handled appropriately. I'm not saying that a black girl who is shot is wrong for championing a cause of helping homeless dogs, or whatever, but let's keep it in perspective.

So instead of building a coalition with gay people and other groups, so that ALL issues can be brought to the fore w/ strength in numbers, black people such as yourself would rather waste time lecturing the rest of the world on how "privileged" gay people are, and how nasty their private behaviors are, and how our discriminatory environments arent at all relatable or similar. Oh yeah...praise Jesus too.

Our discriminatory environments don't have the same history, background, complexities, economic forces behind them. Black issues are really about 30 different issues and those issues are deeper than a man wanting to marry another man. Like I said, I'm not against gay marriage or any of that, but those things are virtually irrelevant in comparison. There has never been a stat saying that a gay guy will be in jail or dead by age 21... there never will be. And FYI black people in America have always, partnered to promote other peoples causes... geez I wonder how great that has worked out.

And not that I was going to go there but biologically speaking their behaviors are unnatural... and nasty only in some people's opinions, not because Jesus said it. We don't know everything that Jesus did in his life- he may have experimented, but we do know stories claim he focused on the downtrodden in society and not on frivolous issues.

To be honest, it seems as tho black people are more energized and excited in shouting down gay people, and adopting discriminatory language that was largely reserved for us previously, than to actually fight against causes like the prison industrial complex that we supposedly care about.

No, lol. Black issues and concerns have nothing to do with gay people. There are some religious right-winged black people who correctly feel that gayness is not the most healthy practice for us, but wrongly make anti-gay a huge deal. And you're correct, most black people could care less about the real issues affecting them... they are either extremely sellout neoconservatives, whitewashed liberals (not focused), or are just trying to survive.

So in short, I find posts like yours to be counter-productive to say the very least.

My post may be counterproductive, but only counterproductive to issues that don't affect my people or brown people in the world.. my post was counterproductive to counter-productivity.