The Official "Better Call Saul" Season 4 Thread.

[Professor Emeritus]

In addition to the fact that Gus would have slit his throat, there's also this:
If he let him go/sent him to the vacuum cleaner guy, then there's a chance that Lalo would have caught up with him or his wife. By now Lalo has probably figured out that they're constructing some kind of underground lab, and once that is online the Salamancas become MUCH less important because there's less need to smuggle anything over the Mexican border anymore. Gus would then be able to run his entire operation with almost no input from the Salamancas at all. So, Lalo would want to torture anyone with information on the lab until they gave up the location. Mike thinks he's saving Werner AND his wife from a much worse death.

Here's the issue to me. We've seen Mike kill 11 people.

8 cartel hitmen who were a direct threat to his life
1 of the cousins who really needed to die anway
2 crooked cops who killed his son

That's it I'm pretty sure. That's all the guys that Mike has ever killed. They were all BAD guys, they were all killers, other than the cops they were all a threat and with the cops it went even deeper than that.

And all those deaths happen later anyway. AFAIK, at this point the only people he's ever killed are the two crooked cops who killed his son. And now, at the age of 60, he's suddenly gonna become the kind of dude who executes some sweet old engineer whose only sin was getting cabin fever and really really wanting to get away to see his wife?



Mike doesn't need the vacuum cleaner guy, neither Gus nor the Salamancas have any serious reach to Germany, they don't roll like that. All Mike had to do was give Werner his passport back and drive him to the airport to get on the next flight to Germany, maybe tell him to keep his head way the hell down just in case (but really, no one slanging product in the southwest USA is gonna risk exposing themselves with an international hit in Germany, that would be a much bigger threat to the operation than just letting Werner live). Then Mike himself either disappears or just offs himself, he's gotta realize that the end is near for him either way.


You have a guy who was a crooked cop, but no more than that. The kind of guy who robs a drug trafficker but does everything he can to let him live. Once he realizes that he's so deep in this crap with a bunch of psychopathic murderers, he's gotta see he has no way out at this point. Even his granddaughter's financial security can't be the rationale now that he sees how murderous his life has become, the risk of exposing them to the game has become too great, they're more likely to be killed if he stays in the middle of the Gus-and-Salamanca fight than if he just leaves the game right now.

 

[Francis White]

Here's the issue to me. We've seen Mike kill 11 people.

8 cartel hitmen who were a direct threat to his life
1 of the cousins who really needed to die anway
2 crooked cops who killed his son

That's it I'm pretty sure. That's all the guys that Mike has ever killed. They were all BAD guys, they were all killers, other than the cops they were all a threat and with the cops it went even deeper than that.

And all those deaths happen later anyway. AFAIK, at this point the only people he's ever killed are the two crooked cops who killed his son. And now, at the age of 60, he's suddenly gonna become the kind of dude who executes some sweet old engineer whose only sin was getting cabin fever and really really wanting to get away to see his wife?



Mike doesn't need the vacuum cleaner guy, neither Gus nor the Salamancas have any serious reach to Germany, they don't roll like that. All Mike had to do was give Werner his passport back and drive him to the airport to get on the next flight to Germany, maybe tell him to keep his head way the hell down just in case (but really, no one slanging product in the southwest USA is gonna risk exposing themselves with an international hit in Germany, that would be a much bigger threat to the operation than just letting Werner live). Then Mike himself either disappears or just offs himself, he's gotta realize that the end is near for him either way.


You have a guy who was a crooked cop, but no more than that. The kind of guy who robs a drug trafficker but does everything he can to let him live. Once he realizes that he's so deep in this crap with a bunch of psychopathic murderers, he's gotta see he has no way out at this point. Even his granddaughter's financial security can't be the rationale now that he sees how murderous his life has become, the risk of exposing them to the game has become too great, they're more likely to be killed if he stays in the middle of the Gus-and-Salamanca fight than if he just leaves the game right now.

What show were you watching? Not BB or BCS for sure. Gus has no reach in Germany? Yet he knew what flight his wife was on and what time she was arriving. He has no reach yet the company and his main connect work are based in Germany. I can’t believe you said he has no reach and they don’t roll like that? Gus is a boss not a street dealer. Mike just lets him go and disappears right? Leaving Gus to kill Stacey or Kaley to bring him out of hiding to get killed by his men. Why mention the vacuum guy? He doesn’t know who he is and can’t contact him or even afford his services.

 

[Tres Leches]

was finally able to watch the last episode...this season was much better than season 3

 

[Fctftl]

Mikes hands were tied

he knew the consequences would be for other people, not just Werner if he let him go. Werner was a dead man walkin soon as he left the lab. n flappin his gums to Lalo aint help his situation.

you can tell it was a hard choice by the look on his face n the sound of his voice. murda mike was def a lil shaken up by what he was about to do. that moment might be a top 2 scene in the series by the time this show wraps up(for me at least).

 

[blankstairz]

Here's the issue to me. We've seen Mike kill 11 people.

8 cartel hitmen who were a direct threat to his life
1 of the cousins who really needed to die anway
2 crooked cops who killed his son

That's it I'm pretty sure. That's all the guys that Mike has ever killed. They were all BAD guys, they were all killers, other than the cops they were all a threat and with the cops it went even deeper than that.

And all those deaths happen later anyway. AFAIK, at this point the only people he's ever killed are the two crooked cops who killed his son. And now, at the age of 60, he's suddenly gonna become the kind of dude who executes some sweet old engineer whose only sin was getting cabin fever and really really wanting to get away to see his wife?



Mike doesn't need the vacuum cleaner guy, neither Gus nor the Salamancas have any serious reach to Germany, they don't roll like that. All Mike had to do was give Werner his passport back and drive him to the airport to get on the next flight to Germany, maybe tell him to keep his head way the hell down just in case (but really, no one slanging product in the southwest USA is gonna risk exposing themselves with an international hit in Germany, that would be a much bigger threat to the operation than just letting Werner live). Then Mike himself either disappears or just offs himself, he's gotta realize that the end is near for him either way.


You have a guy who was a crooked cop, but no more than that. The kind of guy who robs a drug trafficker but does everything he can to let him live. Once he realizes that he's so deep in this crap with a bunch of psychopathic murderers, he's gotta see he has no way out at this point. Even his granddaughter's financial security can't be the rationale now that he sees how murderous his life has become, the risk of exposing them to the game has become too great, they're more likely to be killed if he stays in the middle of the Gus-and-Salamanca fight than if he just leaves the game right now.

Werner was a bad guy.

All these guys are bad guys.

Werner especially. He manipulated a usually smart guy like Mike.

As strong and smart as Mike is, he is not invulnerable. Werner, like any good con man, exploited that for more construction time, phone calls, having beers, strippers for the guys, etc. He was even was able to escape and live his best life for a minute.


A sweet old man doesn't do that type of sh*t.

Mike was so torn at the end. Gus knew it too.
That is why Gus said, "You suuuure" , after Mike said he would take care of it:


It also shows you that even though Gus is , he is still pragmatic. Shows you why he wins so much.

The Salamanca's would have wasted Mike with a quickness for his screw ups.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

What show were you watching? Not BB or BCS for sure. Gus has no reach in Germany? Yet he knew what flight his wife was on and what time she was arriving. He has no reach yet the company and his main connect work are based in Germany. I can’t believe you said he has no reach and they don’t roll like that? Gus is a boss not a street dealer. Mike just lets him go and disappears right? Leaving Gus to kill Stacey or Kaley to bring him out of hiding to get killed by his men. Why mention the vacuum guy? He doesn’t know who he is and can’t contact him or even afford his services.

Back up and take this serious for a second, this ain't a comic book movie, all we know about Gus is what the series has shown us and how stuff works in real life. We don't need to build him into some sort of crazy supervillian.

Gus just elevated some 60-year-old softie to be his #2 guy in a matter of months, yet he has assassins on the other side of the globe?


Gus ain't freaking Putin, even big-time cartel leaders don't usually pull hits outside of their own sphere of influence, that's an entirely different game breh. And Gus ain't no big-time cartel leader, he ain't even king of Albuquerque yet, he still fighting like 4-5 other squads at least for power and territory just in his own little medium-sized city.

Looking up a flight itinerary and having killers doing hits on German engineers are two different things.


And I ain't never mention the vacuum guy, someone else said that. Mike is an old depressed dude with little left to live for. The only two bodies on his resume to that point were the two men who killed his son. I think in real life he would rather off himself than kill Werner. If he afraid of death then he flees on his own and takes his chances, if he was a crooked cop in Philly then he probably knows the Northeast underground better than Gus ever will, so far as we know Gus has ZERO connections in the Northeast while Mike was a crooked cop up there for 30 years. He could find somewhere to hide if he needed to, and what would Gus do then? Send out three guys to search for Mike full-time, when for all he knows Mike might just take those three guys out himself when they start asking questions? Which three guys would that even be? Where have we seen Gus showing off guys with that kinda skill?


And talking about killing Stacey or Kaley. First off, Mike has seen Gus kill exactly zero people to this point in the plot. Zero. The only dude Gus has killed in BCS is Arturo and Mike don't even know anything about that. So you have no idea whether Mike would even think that Gus would be the kind of guy who would kill Stacey or Kaley. And if he does think that, he can just off himself and remove any danger whatsoever of that.

But if he thinks that he's dealing with the kind of people who would kill Stacey/Kaley, he knows he puts them in FAR more danger by continuing to work than by fleeing. He's right in the middle of the damn Gus vs. Salamanca battle, he's been helping orchestrate that battle, and now he's got killers trailing him and he knows it. If he stays in that battle then Stacey and Kaley are PRIME kidnapping targets, if those crews roll that way. If he wants them safe, he has to get out of the game one way or the other.

Werner was a bad guy.

All these guys are bad guys.

Do you remember Mike's speech about good guys and bad guys?

 

[Francis White]

Back up and take this serious for a second, this ain't a comic book movie, all we know about Gus is what the series has shown us and how stuff works in real life. We don't need to build him into some sort of crazy supervillian.

Gus just elevated some 60-year-old softie to be his #2 guy in a matter of months, yet he has assassins on the other side of the globe?


Gus ain't freaking Putin, even big-time cartel leaders don't usually pull hits outside of their own sphere of influence, that's an entirely different game breh. And Gus ain't no big-time cartel leader, he ain't even king of Albuquerque yet, he still fighting like 4-5 other squads at least for power and territory just in his own little medium-sized city.

Looking up a flight itinerary and having killers doing hits on German engineers are two different things.


And I ain't never mention the vacuum guy, someone else said that. Mike is an old depressed dude with little left to live for. The only two bodies on his resume to that point where the two men who killed his son. I think in real life he would rather off himself than kill Werner. If he afraid of death then he flees on his own and takes his chances, if he was a crooked cop in Philly then he probably knows the Northeast underground better than Gus ever will, so far as we know Gus has ZERO connections in the Northeast while Mike was a crooked cop up there for 30 years. He could find somewhere to hide if he needed to, and what would Gus do then? Send out three guys to search for Mike full-time, when for all he knows Mike might just take those three guys out himself when they start asking questions? Which three guys would that even be? Where have we seen Gus showing off guys with that kinda skill?


And talking about killing Stacey or Kaley. First off, Mike has seen Gus kill exactly zero people to this point in the plot. Zero. The only dude Gus has killed in BCS is Arturo and Mike don't even know anything about that. So you have no idea whether Mike would even think that Gus would be the kind of guy who would kill Stacey or Kaley. And if he does think that, he can just off himself and remove any danger whatsoever of that.

But if he thinks that he's dealing with the kind of people who would kill Stacey/Kaley, he knows he puts them in FAR more danger by continuing to work than by fleeing. He's right in the middle of the damn Gus vs. Salamanca battle, he's been helping orchestrate that battle, and now he's got killers trailing him and he knows it. If he stays in that battle then Stacey and Kaley are PRIME kidnapping suspects, if those crews role that way. If he wants them safe, he has to get out of the game one way or the other.





Do you remember Mike's speech about good guys and bad guys?

I posted a video from the amc website. Mike is not the 2 man in his group. Not even close.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I posted a video from the amc website. Mike is not the 2 man in his group. Not even close.

Mike hasn't had to answer to anyone other than Gus when it comes to killing/street operations. From his very first hit on the Salamancas, who made the plan and who carried it out? It was Mike. When Werner escapes, who is ordering everyone around? It's Mike. Who is calling the shots? It's Mike, except when Gus tells him otherwise. In the entire BB/BCS universe, we haven't seen a single Gus operative who showed anything like Mike's skills. Not one. Victor? Tyrus? Those guys are glorified enforcers, bodyguards, not serious operatives. There are other people in the chain of command with other skills, but Mike is already king of street operations.

If Gus had all that much power in the streets, he wouldn't need the Salamancas to be his muscle. If there is someone at his disposal with the skills to go hunting down Mike in Philly, who is it? Why isn't THAT person hunting down Werner?

 

[Czerka]

Might have been posted already

 

[Czerka]

Mike hasn't had to answer to anyone other than Gus when it comes to killing/street operations. From his very first hit on the Salamancas, who made the plan and who carried it out? It was Mike. When Werner escapes, who is ordering everyone around? It's Mike. Who is calling the shots? It's Mike, except when Gus tells him otherwise. In the entire BB/BCS universe, we haven't seen a single Gus operative who showed anything like Mike's skills. Not one. Victor? Tyrus? Those guys are glorified enforcers, bodyguards, not serious operatives. There are other people in the chain of command with other skills, but Mike is already king of street operations.

If Gus had all that much power in the streets, he wouldn't need the Salamancas to be his muscle. If there is someone at his disposal with the skills to go hunting down Mike in Philly, who is it? Why isn't THAT person hunting down Werner?

I see mike as an independent contractor working on very specific projects for Gus, at Madrigal and now at the lab. He hasn’t really been involved in the day to day operations of Gus’s organization

Edit: meant I saw that as his role before the last episode. Now i think he’s in deep and a full time employee

 

[5010]

Almost can't wait for BCS to wrap up so that I can run both shows back.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I see mike as an independent contractor working on very specific projects for Gus, at Madrigal and now at the lab. He hasn’t really been involved in the day to day operations of Gus’s organization

I agree with that, but that's still because Gus has no one to do projects like that for him. Mike leapfrogged Victor and Tyrus when it comes to that sort of strategic street operations and he did it with no effort. Gus ain't got anyone serious to send to Philly to track down Mike if he goes AWOL, he ain't got heavies in Germany who are gonna catch bodies there. Like I said before, if he was rolling hard like that he would have never needed the Salamancas in the first place. Gus is a local city player who is looking to plot his way to the big time, and he wants to use guys like Mike and later Walt and Jesse in order to climb his way there.

 

[Czerka]

I agree with that, but that's still because Gus has no one to do projects like that for him. Mike leapfrogged Victor and Tyrus when it comes to that sort of strategic street operations and he did it with no effort. Gus ain't got anyone serious to send to Philly to track down Mike if he goes AWOL, he ain't got heavies in Germany who are gonna catch bodies there. Like I said before, if he was rolling hard like that he would have never needed the Salamancas in the first place. Gus is a local city player who is looking to plot his way to the big time, and he wants to use guys like Mike and later Walt and Jesse in order to climb his way there.

Gus can go after mikes family. If mike helps Werner escape he has betrayed Gus and put gus’s operation in jeopardy. That’s grounds for going after his family in cartel world and at least flushing out mike so they can try to find Werner.

Mike doesn’t really know what Gus is capable of at this point but he knows he’s a cartel guy and he knows how dangerous those people are (unlike the viewer mike also doesn’t know Gus as being the “reasonable business like criminal” to the same extent we do, not yet). Mike isn’t the type of guy to kill him self and he is also in a better position to protect his family while he’s alive. Don’t forget the twins are still alive and the Salamanca’s have threatened his family once before.

 

[Sonic Boom of the South]

Werner

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Gus can go after mikes family. If mike helps Werner escape he has betrayed Gus and put gus’s operation in jeopardy. That’s grounds for going after his family in cartel world and at least flushing out mike so they can try to find Werner.

Mike doesn’t really know what Gus is capable of at this point but he knows he’s a cartel guy and he knows how dangerous those people are (unlike the viewer mike also doesn’t know Gus as being the “reasonable business like criminal”) to the same extent we do. Mike isn’t the type of guy to kill him self and he is also in a better position to protect his family while he’s alive. Don’t forget the twins are still alive and the Salamanca’s have threatened his family once before.

I don't know why we don't see that Mike is the type of guy to kill himself. He's seemed depressed as hell, he blames himself for his son's death, and he ain't looking like the kind of guy who enjoys life or enjoys who he has become in life.

It's a much smaller leap to see Mike killing himself to save his family than to see a guy who hadn't killed a soul in the first 60 years of life suddenly popping his friend the German engineer in the back of the head execution style. I mean, just that DAY he said he trusted Werner to come back. By his criteria he believed that Werner was one of the "good men", a man of his word, who he was willing to forgive for a lack of judgment. And it just took a couple words from Gus to cause Mike to think maybe 2 seconds and then murk his own goofy little friend.

I'm a huge stan of the series, but I think that was an error in character development. I think that Mike should have done more to try to save Werner or at least been forced into the situation by a more extreme setup. It's not like we need Mike to be a ruthless killer to set up Breaking Bad, in Breaking Bad you NEVER see Mike kill anyone except cartel heavies who are out to kill him. Walter, Gus, the Salamancas, Todd, the White Supremacists, even Jesse pull off more ruthless hits than Mike ever does. Remember when Mike lets Lydia live? Mike never even tries to kill Walt. It's not his character.

And Mike ain't in no "position to protect his family." If the Salamancas want to kill his family, they will kill his family and there is nothing he can do about it. Nothing. He doesn't live at their home, he doesn't escort them to work and school, if they dead then they dead. But if Mike's dead, there ain't a killer on Earth who would ever touch his family, they don't have the slightest reason to. Mike's family is in far, far more danger with him alive than dead, and they're probably in more danger with him actively in the game killing the Salamancas' crew than if he quit the game and left the scene altogether.