The Martial Arts and Philosophy

[Hannibal Fox]

@Hannibal Fox might have to start doing a little more Bagua. shyt has been interesting me a lot recently.

The first few seconds of that vid had me rolling uke looked like he was drowning, been there though I know how he feels.

But you should if the opportunity arises have a more in depth look at Bagua, you would be surprised how natural it feels especially coming from xing yi, the amount of times I've caught myself circle walking off of the kick in the linking form is too numerous to count.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

The first few seconds of that vid had me rolling uke looked like he was drowning, been there though I know how he feels.

But you should if the opportunity arises have a more in depth look at Bagua, you would be surprised how natural it feels especially coming from xing yi, the amount of times I've caught myself circle walking off of the kick in the linking form is too numerous to count.

Agreed. I think it's kinda crazy how well they seem to go together despite developing separately. Kind of like Chuo jiao and Fanziquan.

My teacher is currently in the process of learning Ma Gui style. He's been a strictly XY guy since his early 20s but he's interested in learning from this guy. I'm interested in it a lot; I want the 'changeability' aspect that comes from training the art, as well as upgrading my lateral footwork and throws. XY is amazing in a straight line and as far as striking and power generation goes, but it's mostly a striking/takedown art. Bagua teaches a certain mindset that I believe is very unique yet important to fighting. I think that by adding aspects of Baguazhang to my training my XY will go from silver to gold.

 

[Hannibal Fox]

Agreed. I think it's kinda crazy how well they seem to go together despite developing separately. Kind of like Chuo jiao and Fanziquan.

My teacher is currently in the process of learning Ma Gui style. He's been a strictly XY guy since his early 20s but he's interested in learning from this guy. I'm interested in it a lot; I want the 'changeability' aspect that comes from training the art, as well as upgrading my lateral footwork and throws. XY is amazing in a straight line and as far as striking and power generation goes, but it's mostly a striking/takedown art. Bagua teaches a certain mindset that I believe is very unique yet important to fighting. I think that by adding aspects of Baguazhang to my training my XY will go from silver to gold.

A lot of reading in here but it also has a few exercises my instructor gave it to me actually never got around to reading it too much but as I'm writing this it's peering out at me from the book case lol

The guy who edited it dan miller is quite well known actually go here.

If you have the money laying around I'd suggest getting the journal.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

A lot of reading in here but it also has a few exercises my instructor gave it to me actually never got around to reading it too much but as I'm writing this it's peering out at me from the book case lol

The guy who edited it dan miller is quite well known actually go here.

If you have the money laying around I'd suggest getting the journal.

Yeah, I have learned some of the neigong components of Gao bagua; the tian gan/heavenly stems



but no circle walking or apps from it yet. I don't think the average person can master bagua tbh. I think that you need a very specific mindset and level of intelligence to properly apply the neigong and fighting principals properly. The same is true for XY in a lot of ways, but you can at least gain a solid level of fighting skill using it's direct/ ming jin methods even if you're not really using any of the more sophisticated body requirements or mechanics.

Confession: I thought Bagua and Taiji were kinda lame/womanly and not worth learning when i first started out in the IMA. I didnt understand how circle walking and bagua's techniques worked. how wrong I was.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

@Hannibal Fox @ExodusNirvana @Blackking @KyokushinKarateka any of you brehs practice with weapons? I just started da qiang (big spear) training for Xingyi.

 

[Blackking]

@Hannibal Fox @ExodusNirvana @Blackking @KyokushinKarateka any of you brehs practice with weapons? I just started da qiang (big spear) training for Xingyi.

We have something called long pole. I'm no where near ready for the weapons, so naw.. I don't practice w weapons that aren't my guns.

This guy in the video makes the weapon an extension of himself... and the force goes all the way to the end of the shyt-- , I can't do that... so I wouldn't be ready for any weapons especially long ones.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

We have something called long pole. I'm no where near ready for the weapons, so naw.. I don't practice w weapons that aren't my guns.

This guy in the video makes the weapon an extension of himself... and the force goes all the way to the end of the shyt-- , I can't do that... so I wouldn't be ready for any weapons especially long ones.

That's right, Chun does have da qiang training as well, though I don't know too much about what criteria you'd need to hit to be able to start practicing it I guess. Most chinese arts use weapons to train some aspect of their style. Taiji people use the jian (a fencing style straight sword) to teach sensitivity/speed at touch as well as the spiraling movements of the style. Nice observation on his force expression btw, you're right. Xing Yi ideally uses a form of integrated force just like that in bare fist forms, sending full body force forward. If you pay even closer attention, you can see that his movement starts from the Dan Tian the center of his body, and his arms and legs follow . That's a key aspect of many internal martial arts schools. This is part of the six harmonies philosophy of movement; the shoulders move the elbows which moves the hands, the hips move the knees which move the feet, and the whole body starts and stops at one time.

 

[Hannibal Fox]

We have something called long pole. I'm no where near ready for the weapons, so naw.. I don't practice w weapons that aren't my guns.

This guy in the video makes the weapon an extension of himself... and the force goes all the way to the end of the shyt-- , I can't do that... so I wouldn't be ready for any weapons especially long ones.

Sounds like your ready breh

@Broletariat I've done a bit of eskrima/kali and kenjutsu to be fair weaponry is not my strong suit however its useful to learn especially from the empty handed viewpoint it gives a lot of ideas.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Sounds like your ready breh

@Broletariat I've done a bit of eskrima/kali and kenjutsu to be fair weaponry is not my strong suit however its useful to learn especially from the empty handed viewpoint it gives a lot of ideas.

yea those southeast asian styles love blades. I don't think I'm particularly gifted with them either. From what I've trained I'd say I prefer the dao I suppose. I'd agree that the point in modern society isn't really to use it for bladed fighting, but to train aspects of your game. Your force expression, coordination, accuracy, proprioception.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

@Hannibal Fox @ExodusNirvana @Blackking @KyokushinKarateka any of you brehs practice with weapons? I just started da qiang (big spear) training for Xingyi.

I have sleeve staff, knife, staff, and Dao...I'm better with the staff because I've practiced it more though, plus it's easier. It only takes you about 100 hours worth of practice to get decent with staff.

The Dao is kind of hard because it really is just a "big knife" and its hard to control. When you get nice with it though the shyt looks like just blades of light flashing. Make sure to get a good one...not that wu shu steel shyt....you won't cut butter let alone a person with those flimsy shyts

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

The Dao is kind of hard because it really is just a "big knife" and its hard to control. When you get nice with it though the shyt looks like just blades of light flashing. Make sure to get a good one...not that wu shu steel shyt....you won't cut butter let alone a person with those flimsy shyts

Interesting. I personally liked working with the dao. I guess it feels natural to me? I think it's because I'm short and stocky. It's fun to play around with it for short chopping arcs and circular attacks.

 

[Blackking]

That's right, Chun does have da qiang training as well, though I don't know too much about what criteria you'd need to hit to be able to start practicing it I guess. Most chinese arts use weapons to train some aspect of their style. Taiji people use the jian (a fencing style straight sword) to teach sensitivity/speed at touch as well as the spiraling movements of the style. Nice observation on his force expression btw, you're right. Xing Yi ideally uses a form of integrated force just like that in bare fist forms, sending full body force forward. If you pay even closer attention, you can see that his movement starts from the Dan Tian the center of his body, and his arms and legs follow . That's a key aspect of many internal martial arts schools. This is part of the six harmonies philosophy of movement; the shoulders move the elbows which moves the hands, the hips move the knees which move the feet, and the whole body starts and stops at one time.

Yup, there is the long spear.. and the regualar long pole. The criteria is- to master the different chambers, most have 3... and it takes a long time to get past the 2nd one.. that's where I am. I'm glad to be there too, I've seen 3rd chamber people using the Butterfly knives and the Dao... I know from transitions from 1 level to the next that the shyt I would need to know to get to that level... .I don't even know what I don't know yet.

The only problem I have w a traditional school is the time and BS it take to get to different things - So that's why I satisfy the need to instant gratification with all these other mma type places.

the part of ur post in bold... yeah, I just recently mastered that shyt without weapons.. and body structure is most important along with controlling the center in chun. With weapons or without weapons - generally if the other person is trained.. and u have better structure u can win, or at least can't be knocked down.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

@ExodusNirvana you're right about those shytty ass swords people sell on the cheap. Not only are they useless as weapons (that's fine since i dont plan on using them on any one or sparring) but if you're strong enough you can easily snap some of these brittle shyts and hurt yourself. One of my kung fu brothers was doing dao foundations with some cheap shyt and his fa-jing broke it on a stroke, shattered everywhere and he got a piece in his arm. Another reason why i'd rather do spear work

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Yup, there is the long spear.. and the regualar long pole. The criteria is- to master the different chambers, most have 3... and it takes a long time to get past the 2nd one.. that's where I am. I'm glad to be there too, I've seen 3rd chamber people using the Butterfly knives and the Dao... I know from transitions from 1 level to the next that the shyt I would need to know to get to that level... .I don't even know what I don't know yet.

that's cool. I like how more external schools seem to have structured tiers/criteria for this stuff. A lot of internal schoolings seem to based on more nebulous goals and training isn't always exactly linear.

The only problem I have w a traditional school is the time and BS it take to get to different things - So that's why I satisfy the need to instant gratification with all these other mma type places.

Yeah.... but you gotta eat bitter before you can eat sweet as they say. Fighting instant gratification is something i was just talking with my sifu about. It's hard in america, w/all the distractions and shyt we have. Most internal schools require you to do some sort of standing neigong for months before you can learn techniques, and even then they pound structure and breathing techniques in before applications. @Hannibal Fox can attest to how fukking boring some of this training is. But it's worth it imo.

the part of ur post in bold... yeah, I just recently mastered that shyt without weapons.. and body structure is most important along with controlling the center in chun. With weapons or without weapons - generally if the other person is trained.. and u have better structure u can win, or at least can't be knocked down.

Right, i remember hearing that was important in chun, the centerline. a lot of xingyi/bagua/taiji and related schools focus a lot on the dan tian. not just because of how it guides your movement, but neigong and combat application contexts as well. if you train it in a dedicated fashion you can use bursts of energy from it for movement and combat.

 

[Hannibal Fox]

that's cool. I like how more external schools seem to have structured tiers/criteria for this stuff. A lot of internal schoolings seem to based on more nebulous goals and training isn't always exactly linear.


Yeah.... but you gotta eat bitter before you can eat sweet as they say. Fighting instant gratification is something i was just talking with my sifu about. It's hard in america, w/all the distractions and shyt we have. Most internal schools require you to do some sort of standing neigong for months before you can learn techniques, and even then they pound structure and breathing techniques in before applications. @Hannibal Fox can attest to how fukking boring some of this training is. But it's worth it imo.


Right, i remember hearing that was important in chun, the centerline. a lot of xingyi/bagua/taiji and related schools focus a lot on the dan tian. not just because of how it guides your movement, but neigong and combat application contexts as well. if you train it in a dedicated fashion you can use bursts of energy from it for movement and combat.

I have this conversation a lot actually. in fact in a lot of ways external schools especially those with a good competitive system Jujutsu with it various forms for instance offer the ability to field test their skills at several different levels in an "Alive" setting (I know the term is overused but it's apt in this case) the structure is being tested rigorously, I guess what I'm trying to say is that; a lot of people just want to feel like they are actually learning something, they want results and to be honest that was the way they used to gauge whether a martial artist was legit or a fraud.

Internal martial arts are stigmatized and are often viewed as bullshido, and having practiced both internal and external I understand why.

Sidenote:

The more I study both the more alike they appear... maybe that's just me but there is a better analogy to describe what I mean I'm sure.