THE LANGUAGE OF GOD (Good Lecture)

[Koichos]

So these are “Arab” Jews?

When they say “Allah” means “lord” as in Adonai/ אֲֲֲֲדֹֹנָָָָי ?

No, 'lord' would be רַבּ rab; אַללַּה allah here is equivalent to הַשֵּׁם hashem, a colloquial usage standing in place of the Explicit Name. Take a look at the video description: all three instances of אַללַּה allah are translated into Hebrew as 'ה, a shorthand for הַשֵּׁם hashem.

אַללַּה יִשְׁפִיכּ = ה' ירפא אותך
אַללַּה יִשְׁפִיכּ וְתִּמְשִׁי = ה' ירפא אותך ותלך ברגלך
אַללַּה יִחַקִק אַחְלַאמַכּ = ה' יגשים חלומותיך​

 

[DoubleClutch]

No, 'lord' would be רַבּ rab; אַללַּה allah here is equivalent to הַשֵּׁם hashem, a colloquial usage standing in place of the Explicit Name. Take a look at the video description: all three instances of אַללַּה allah are translated into Hebrew as 'ה, a shorthand for הַשֵּׁם hashem.

Right so Allah for Arab Jews is just a word that ultimately points to Yahweh in the Torah

For Muslims Allah is basically THE name or their YAWEH since they don’t follow the same Torah Israelites tradition but their own Ishmaelite traditions given by Muhammad

It just dawned on me how in both faiths (Judaism & Islam) there is no “name” per se for God, but rather a description which reminds them of God in their tradition/culture

But this is no different from normal bible names I guess with a meaning

I think there is a confusion with names & titles which the writers of the Quran deliberately tried to eliminate or avoid

The only issue here is that as a Muslim, Yahweh cannot be used in place of “Allah” in theory.

A Muslim will even say, “Yahweh is not Allah”

And “I AM” isn’t listed as one of Gods titles/descriptions in the Quran

Is the exodus story even in the Quran?

Only in the New Testament does Jesus use this “I am” title.

 

[Koichos]

And “I AM” isn’t listed as one of Gods titles/descriptions in the Quran

Is the exodus story even in the Quran?

Only in the New Testament does Jesus use this “I am” title.

It is not listed in the Tοrah, either, because Hebrew does not even have a word for 'am'. אֶֶֶהְְיֶֶֶה eh'yeh is the 1st person, singular, future tense of root היה (to be) and means 'I will be'. The אֶֶֶהְְיֶֶֶה eh'yeh in verse 14 is merely an affirmation of that which occurs in verse 12:

יב וַיֹּ֨אמֶר֙ כִּֽי־אֶֽהְיֶ֣ה עִמָּ֔ךְ וְזֶה־לְּךָ֣ הָא֔וֹת כִּ֥י אָֽנֹכִ֖י שְׁלַחְתִּ֑יךָ בְּהוֹצִֽיאֲךָ֤ אֶת־הָעָם֙ מִמִּצְרַ֔יִם תַּֽעַבְדוּן֙ אֶת־הָ֣אֱלֹקִ֔ים עַ֖ל הָהָ֥ר הַזֶּֽה׃ יג וַיֹּ֨אמֶר מֹשֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹקִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֮ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹקֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם׃ יד וַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹקִים֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם׃​

12He answered: 'For I will be with you; this is your sign that it was I who sent you. Once you have taken the people out of Mitz'rayim you are to worship [the] God at this mountain." 13Mοsheh said to [the] God: "See, [when] I come to Yisra'el’s descendants and I tell them, 'Your ancestors’ God has sent me to you'—if they ask of me 'What is His Name', how should I respond to them?" 14So God said to Mοsheh: "[Tell them it is I, the One who says] I will be [with them when they need Me now, just] as I will be [with them whenever they have need of Me in the future]"; and then He said: "Tell Yisra'el, '[the One who says] I will be [with them when they need Me now] has sent me to you'." (Sh'mοt 3:12-14)

By the way, this word is not limited to the above passage; it occurs well over forty times, throughout all three divisions of the Tana"ch.

 

[DoubleClutch]

It is not listed in the Tοrah, either, because Hebrew does not even have a word for 'am'. אֶֶֶהְְיֶֶֶה eh'yeh is the 1st person, singular, future tense of root היה (to be) and means 'I will be'. The אֶֶֶהְְיֶֶֶה eh'yeh in verse 14 is merely an affirmation of that which occurs in verse 12:

By the way, this word is not limited to the above passage; it occurs well over forty times, throughout all three divisions of the Tana"ch.

Right. The English translation today is understood as “I am” but still the equivalent isn’t in the Quran and same as Jesus said the Hebrew translation of “i am” which made the Pharisees want to stone him

Anyways, is it safe to say that “hashem” or the name in Judaism isn’t a “name” at all but rather a reminder of who God is to his people as shown in the stories in the Torah? I guess in the specific story it’s a way to separate Moses God from the Egyptian one

Same as Christians know Jesus name to basically mean Gods salvation and significance of the gospel:

Yehoshua (יהושׁוע) means “the Lord saves”, then Yeshua (ישׁוּע) means either “he [i.e., the Lord] saves” or simply "salvation." In fact, Judeo-Greek does not distinguish between "Yeshua" and "Yehoshua," transliterating both as Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous or "Jesus").

The name יֵשׁוּעַ, Yeshua (transliterated in the English Old Testament as Jeshua), is a late form of the Biblical Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, Yehoshua (Joshua), and spelled with a waw in the second syllable. The Late Biblical Hebrew spellings for earlier names often contracted the theophoric element Yeho- to Yo-.

 

[Koichos]

Right. The English translation today is understood as “I am” but still the equivalent isn’t in the Quran and same as Jesus said the Hebrew translation of “i am” which made the Pharisees want to stone him

Anyways, is it safe to say that “hashem” or the name in Judaism isn’t a “name” at all but rather a reminder of who God is to his people as shown in the stories in the Torah? I guess in the specific story it’s a way to separate Moses God from the Egyptian one

Same as Christians know Jesus name to basically mean Gods salvation and significance of the gospel:

Yehoshua (יהושׁוע) means “the Lord saves”, then Yeshua (ישׁוּע) means either “he [i.e., the Lord] saves” or simply "salvation." In fact, Judeo-Greek does not distinguish between "Yeshua" and "Yehoshua," transliterating both as Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous or "Jesus").

The name יֵשׁוּעַ, Yeshua (transliterated in the English Old Testament as Jeshua), is a late form of the Biblical Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, Yehoshua (Joshua), and spelled with a waw in the second syllable. The Late Biblical Hebrew spellings for earlier names often contracted the theophoric element Yeho- to Yo-.

The word הַשֵּׁם hashem is not a title at all: all it means is 'the name' and it is what is called a ‘kinnuy’ (a substitute word) because rather than saying or writing אֲֲֲֲדֹֹנָָָָי when this is not necessary in vernacular usage (outside of ritualized prayer or ceremonial readings), we use the substitute word הַשֵּׁם. But אֲֲֲֲדֹֹנָָָָי is in a sense itself also a substitute because it takes the place of, and represents, the Explicit Name.

הַשֵּׁם is a colloquial substitute never used in any actual prayer.
אֲֲֲֲדֹֹנָָָָי is a liturgical substitute exclusive to formalized worship.​

In some editions of the siddur (daily prayer book) the word אדני appears within the terminal ה of the Explicit Name, prompting us to read it aloud as אֲֲֲֲדֹֹנָָָָי while having in mind the group of letters ה ,ו ,ה ,י. An example of this editorial choice may be seen from the following scan of one siddur that I have in the opening blessing of the ‘'Amidah’ that is recited daily (morning, afternoon and evening):

​

תכלאל "עץ חיים" דפוס אברהם אלנדאף, ירושלים משנת תרנ"ט​

 

[DoubleClutch]

Just saw this post. Is what he says true @Koichos

Brings new meaning to “language of God”

 

[010101]

ALL BORN OF MENTAL MASTURBATION*

 

[Koichos]

Just saw this post. Is what he says true @Koichos

Brings new meaning to “language of God”

No, not one bit. And I wouldn't dignify such claims by bothering to respond to them.

 

[MMS]

ALL BORN OF MENTAL MASTURBATION*

@Koichos

using your logic

what is the more powerful combination. I will use "Hashem" in place of the name

Hashem Elohim, Hashem Eloheka, or Dabar Hashem?

The Judgement of Paris in Greek Mythology

The Judgement of Paris was an event in Greek mythology that saw the Trojan prince Paris decide which goddess was the most beautiful

www.greeklegendsandmyths.com

Bible Gateway passage: Judges 19:22-30 - King James Version

Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. And the man, the...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Koichos]

@Koichos

using your logic

what is the more powerful combination. I will use "Hashem" in place of the name

Hashem Elohim, Hashem Eloheka, or Dabar Hashem?

The Judgement of Paris in Greek Mythology

The Judgement of Paris was an event in Greek mythology that saw the Trojan prince Paris decide which goddess was the most beautiful

www.greeklegendsandmyths.com

Bible Gateway passage: Judges 19:22-30 - King James Version

Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. And the man, the...

www.biblegateway.com

The first of these, as it combines the two foremost titles used for God in the Bible: 'ה representing Mercy; אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים representing Justice.

• ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים hashem elοhim ('Hashem-God')
• ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֶֶֽיךָָ hashem elοhecha ('Hashem your God')
• 'דְְּבַַר ה d'var hashem ('Hashem’s word')

But in prayer ה' אֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵֽינוּ hashem elοheinu ('Hashem our God') because it features as part of the usual opening formula for all blessings

...בָָּרוּךְְ אַַתָָָּה ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵֽינוּ מֶֶֽלֶֶֶךְ הָָעוֹֹלָָָם​

baruch attah hashem elοheinu melech ha'οlam...​

Blessed are You, Hashem, our God, Sovereign of the World...

as in the blessing recited before eating any foodstuffs (that does not grow from the ground) or drinking any beverage (apart from wine):

שֶֶֶׁהַַכֹֹּל נִִהְְיֶֶֶה בִִּדְְבָָרוֹֹ׃​

...shehakkol nih'yeh bid'varo​

...the One that everything exists by His word.

 

[MMS]

The first of these, as it combines the two foremost titles used for God in the Bible: 'ה representing Mercy; אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים representing Justice.

• ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים hashem elοhim ('Hashem-God')
• ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֶֶֽיךָָ hashem elοhecha ('Hashem your God')
• 'דְְּבַַר ה d'var hashem ('Hashem’s word')

But in prayer ה' אֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵֽינוּ hashem elοheinu ('Hashem our God') because it features as part of the usual opening formula for all blessings

as in the blessing recited before eating any foodstuffs (that does not grow from the ground) or drinking any beverage (apart from wine):

ahh so door #1

remember this: "nothing and something"

We are living in a world of illusion

Nah I am thinking of it The illusion is math Everything is math=consciousness=soul=energy=causality=motion=(nothing, unity, multitude) =A wave I did an entire degree in Math and thinking about doing a masters or PhD but I am trying to finalize some ideas because you need a thesis but of course...

www.thecoli.com

Enough with the gobbledygook xianese: the blasphemous pagan concept of the 'embodied' or 'incarnated word' (which in turn is a reference to Yushke) is an impossible notion in Hebrew and therefore incomprehensible to the Jewish mind.

would "Dabar hashem" be incarnated or embodied?

maybe i should have included a fourth choice:

Hashem elohay

Exodus 4:4 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

Exodus 4:5 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

Spoiler

Genesis 31:30 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

We are living in a world of illusion

Identify the kaf. I don't care a jot what the Qurʾan says; it is a heap of garbage and nobody considers it even worth wiping our rear ends with. :lolbron: We are living in a world of illusion

www.thecoli.com

 

[Koichos]

ahh so door #1

remember this: "nothing and something"

We are living in a world of illusion

Nah I am thinking of it The illusion is math Everything is math=consciousness=soul=energy=causality=motion=(nothing, unity, multitude) =A wave I did an entire degree in Math and thinking about doing a masters or PhD but I am trying to finalize some ideas because you need a thesis but of course...

www.thecoli.com

would "Dabar hashem" be incarnated or embodied?

Not in Hebrew thought.

maybe i should have included a fourth choice:

Hashem elohay

Exodus 4:4 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

Exodus 4:5 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

By 'elohay' and the links provided, I'm assuming you're referring to the first conjugation: אֱלֹהֵי. Neither form is one of the nine 'Divine Titles' that may not be rubbed away (אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים and אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֶֶֽיךָָ, however, are), but our formal prayer-liturgy is nevertheless replete with both.

• אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי elοhei = 'elohim of...' — אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי elοhei is just אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים elοhim with the added suffixal construct ־ֵֵי -ei: 'of'
• אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהַַי elοhai = 'my elohim' — אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהַַי elοhai is just אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים elοhim with the added possessive suffix ־ַַי -ai: 'my'

But the first of these is in the genitive (construct 'of') case and, therefore, must be followed by another noun. This means that ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי is not a true pair because אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי ([the] God of [such-and-such]') is the possessor which modifies and connects to the noun that follows.

Spoiler

Genesis 31:30 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

We are living in a world of illusion

Identify the kaf. I don't care a jot what the Qurʾan says; it is a heap of garbage and nobody considers it even worth wiping our rear ends with. :lolbron: We are living in a world of illusion

www.thecoli.com

אֱלֹהַי changes to אֱלֹהָי whenever it coincides with a linguistic pause. אֱלֹהָי is the pausal form of אֱלֹהַי = 'my elοhim'.

 

[MMS]

Not in Hebrew thought.


By 'elohay' and the links provided, I'm assuming you're referring to the first conjugation: אֱלֹהֵי. Neither form is one of the nine 'Divine Titles' that may not be rubbed away (אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים and אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֶֶֽיךָָ, however, are), but our formal prayer-liturgy is nevertheless replete with both.

• אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי elοhei = 'elohim of...' — אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי elοhei is just אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים elοhim with the added suffixal construct ־ֵֵי -ei: 'of'
• אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהַַי elοhai = 'my elohim' — אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהַַי elοhai is just אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהִִים elοhim with the added possessive suffix ־ַַי -ai: 'my'

But the first of these is in the genitive (construct 'of') case and, therefore, must be followed by another noun. This means that ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי is not a true pair because אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵי ([the] God of [such-and-such]') is the possessor which modifies and connects to the noun that follows.


אֱלֹהַי changes to אֱלֹהָי whenever it coincides with a linguistic pause. אֱלֹהָי is the pausal form of אֱלֹהַי = 'my elοhim'.

technically i was referring to the second version

it said Jacob "stole" elohay from Laban

so why not Hashem Elohecha? If I'm not mistaken...and I know you would know these occurrences

how many times in the scriptures does it say "I am Hashem Elohim, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

vs "I am Hashem Elohecha, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

Isaiah 40:1 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

vs "I am Dabar Hashem, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

clearly...door #2 is the preferred choice. So given my allegory Hashem Elohecha is the fairest

Pray to a redbone named 'NUT' Brehgyptians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(goddess)

www.thecoli.com

Numbers 22:2 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

 

[DoubleClutch]

No, not one bit. And I wouldn't dignify such claims by bothering to respond to them.

Oh, so you don’t believe there’s some hidden/secret meaning in the text of the Torah at all?

I’m not saying there needs to be anything like that to “prove God is real” or make the Bible seem like a “miraculous book” (like Muslims would claim about the Quran) but Hebrew language is interesting

I know @MMS knows a little about gematria but that’s another topic

 

[Koichos]

technically i was referring to the second version

Ah! that was my initial thought, but your link to Sh'mot 4:5 (which has only the first inflexion) threw me off. It is my convention to use ai/ay ׁ(rhyming with hi) to represent ־ַַי and ei/ey (rhyming with hey) to represent ־ֵֵי, but still others may adhere to the opposite scheme.

it said Jacob "stole" elohay from Laban

so why not Hashem Elohecha?

Because that is in reference to Lavan’s ritual implements (see B'reshyt 31:19, 31:34 & 31:35)—'gods', i.e., false ones, idols; not God.

Lavan’s use of "אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהַַי" in verse 30 is plural: לָָֽמָָָּה גָנַַֽבְְתָָָּ אֶֶֶֶת־אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהָָָָי lămmah ganăvta et elohai '[but] why have you taken my gods'.

If I'm not mistaken...and I know you would know these occurrences

how many times in the scriptures does it say "I am Hashem Elohim, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

None.

vs "I am Hashem Elohecha, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

Isaiah 40:1 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

Twice: once in the Ten Utterances given at Parashat ‘Yitrο’ 20:2, and once again in its repetition at Parashat ‘Va'etħannan’ 5:6.

vs "I am Dabar Hashem, that brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"

None.

clearly...door #2 is the preferred choice. So given my allegory Hashem Elohecha is the fairest

Pray to a redbone named 'NUT' Brehgyptians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(goddess)

www.thecoli.com

Numbers 22:2 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

I see, yes: when He is speaking to us, ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֶֶֽיךָָ ('Hashem, your God'); when we are speaking to Him, ה' אֱֱֱֱלֹֹהֵֵֽינוּ ('Hashem, our God').