The Grapevine: Africans, AA's and Caribbeans

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta

I already seen you post that source. And the lady in the articles says "But I am not African, and Africans are not African-American," By that alone no one should take her seriously. "African" part in AA is NOT about being directly from Africa and thats not how the term AA works.

true.....she was basically trying to cover all grounds because let's not forget, there are continental africans in america who identify as "african american" and wonder why aframs identify as that

 

[im_sleep]

What makes this confusing
Especially coming from 2nd and third gen non afram blacks. Is the fact that they move and maneuver like Aframs. In speech, in the way they act just their entire ebb and flow
Distinctions arent made until its something negative with aframs and its time to not be like "those blacks"
Or its that time to be "Exotic"

Aframs through our modern "black" redefinition has everyone being us and not us at the same time

Lets take Farrakhan for instance. A dude who moves and even talks like a Pastor born and raised somewhere in Georgia is really of caribbean descent
Its hard to really combat it when non aframs subscribe to the modern concept of blackness that we've created

Look at all the non afram coli posters through out this board. Even the non afram people on the grapevine including that nigerian host

All of them subscribe to the Afram Amended version of Modern Blackness

She will talk caribbean this, and african that yet the bulk of her topics are mainly Afram cultural/pop culture related

Pretty much. That's why I don't care who you are, if your ancestors weren't toiling the soil of the American South prior to the civil war you're not us, and that's not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

 

[im_sleep]

We have too much of our history tied into the name to go back now.
I think the best course of Action would be to differentiate lineage. E.i. Via Census.
We have to move fast simply saying your people are from the south isn't going to fly anymore because a lot of Africans and Caribbeans are moving to the south now.

I agree just saying the south nowadays isn't good enough.

However I believe what distinguishes AA culture and clearly defines it more than anything is our rural Southern roots...and I stress rural for a reason.

Foreign Blacks with some exceptions in the early 20th century, for the most part are not exposed to that aspect of AA culture and largely never will be, like we are no matter where you grew up in America, whether it be direct or indirect. And those moving to the South, are by far moving to urban or suburban areas where they may be exposed to a lil more than in the North, but it won't be the same.

IMO a re-embrace of those roots is crucial in defining us. The big challenge is, how do we do that? We have a big aversion of celebrating much about ourselves pre-civil rights.

 

[Whogivesafuck]

Interesting, yeah the man that started alot of this was straight out of North Carolina his damn self. (Noble Drew Ali). The Hotepness on my side of the family started with my great-great grandma who was from East Texas, though that was definitely the exception not the rule.

And I agree absolutely about being very vocal...too vocal at that, with a very good amount of influence. AA's have no culture, we're a lost people, blah blah blah...these nikka's push that more than anybody.

Defining AA as a true identity has to undo decades of this type of rhetoric being accepted and poorly challenged.

Is your family from Smith County?

 

[im_sleep]

Is your family from Smith County?

Yes but not that particular side(grimes county). My grandfather(mom's dad) was born in Smith County, moved to LA as a child.

 

[Free White & 21]

AA DoS....we need a part to eliminate islanders and latinos

USDOS?

 

[Jammer22]

I doubt its more than five-ten million.

The largest non-AA black population[Jamaicans and Nigerians] are very small.

Honestly breh, lots of Jamaican parents explicitly tell their kids who claim Jamaican "No you're not Jamaican. You're American."
Met a Liberian whose parents said the same.

They confuse the shyt out they kids by not differentiating between nationality and ethnic group.
I was too, until I came to the coli tbh. Was kinda flip-flopping.


I just say Jamaican American now.
Not sure they'd be fond of the hyphen part if I ever brought it up. Gotta ask.

Anywho, I peeped how the Africans was more concerned about not culture appropriation, AA imperialism, name-calling.
Some of the shyt seemed trivial to me.


Jamaican dude Donavon had some good points.
Disappointed by the Haitian dude tho, he usually better.

Wanted more solutions in the last part.

Gonna watch the first part.

Why they disable the comments tho?

 

[Concerning VIolence]

What makes this confusing
Especially coming from 2nd and third gen non afram blacks. Is the fact that they move and maneuver like Aframs. In speech, in the way they act just their entire ebb and flow
Distinctions arent made until its something negative with aframs and its time to not be like "those blacks"
Or its that time to be "Exotic"

Aframs through our modern "black" redefinition has everyone being us and not us at the same time

Lets take Farrakhan for instance. A dude who moves and even talks like a Pastor born and raised somewhere in Georgia is really of caribbean descent
Its hard to really combat it when non aframs subscribe to the modern concept of blackness that we've created

Look at all the non afram coli posters through out this board. Even the non afram people on the grapevine including that nigerian host

All of them subscribe to the Afram Amended version of Modern Blackness

She will talk caribbean this, and african that yet the bulk of her topics are mainly Afram cultural/pop culture related

Because they're still AMERICAN.

The Africans on the panel aren't 1st generation, they're second.

I don't think you understand how immigrant identity work.

If you have an American accent, you're American to the outside world in any country you visit.

 

[Concerning VIolence]

Honestly breh, lots of Jamaican parents explicitly tell their kids who claim Jamaican "No you're not Jamaican. You're American."
Met a Liberian whose parents said the same.

They confuse the shyt out they kids by not differentiating between nationality and ethnic group.
I was too, until I came to the coli tbh. Was kinda flip-flopping.


I just say Jamaican American now.
Not sure they'd be fond of the hyphen part if I ever brought it up. Gotta ask.

Yup, immigrants deal with 2 national identities in whichever country they're in.

People ITT think you're trying to claim AfAm identity by adding American to your hyphen. when it's literally every ethnicity that comes here.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I was remembering this @Poitier (it relates to what we were speaking of on the last few pages)

I know you said you go by nationality but she is an island girl. I really wish AAs had our own visual symbol we used to differentiate ourselves from other black folks.

Fixed.

And this why I KEEP saying that AAs need to have a pan ethnic movement like other minoirty groups like the Kurds, native Americans, Berbers or Palestinians to specify our ethnicity, history and culture.

And I only go by nationality for Africans.

The Islander IGs be fukking me up because they all have pictures of themselves drapped in American flags amongst other AA cultural signifiers so I look at last names, pictures of cultural foods, birth place, and often on twitter is where you will see them tell you what they are

I know you're going to disagree 100% with this but this is why I argue even more that AAs should mostly go by African-American(not the red bolded dash) and not "black" when labeling us as an ethnic group. Knowing who is who gets harder because AAs online/social media don't bother to specify but just say for example "black girls" while including other black groups. So then everything gets mixed up.

I actually agree but I see immigrants Blacks using AA as a label at times even. Just a tricky situation all around.

No, I meant I've seen Islanders and Africans call themselves AA...shyt I've seen some Africans say AA means Black immigrants to America from Africa

 

[Karb]

most people/including aframs already know what an afram is...my point is that "black" outsiders identifying with the term will always muddle the term from it's intended definition in the strictest sense, rather than in it's broader sense

How often does that happen? Nigerian-Americans, Ghanaian-Americans, Ethiopian-Americans etc mostly identify by their nationality still. Is it mostly second generation Caribbeans who identify as African American?

 

[Poitier]

USDOS?

I like this.

 

[Karb]

I'm aware he is, which is my point.

Most AA's aren't even aware of the slick stuff he's said about us. And too many of those that were let it slide because of lack of ethnic pride and being ashamed of who we are. That's a major issue IMO. I touched on this when I brought up "Hoteps" and their relationship to AA identity and culture as well as their influence.

There are alot of factors that make this an uphill battle, but I don't believe that they cannot be undone...it just won't be easy.

But Farrakhan is also a descendant of West African slaves, so everything that he said about AA's (no matter how wrong it is) could also be applied to his own people.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

How often does that happen? Nigerian-Americans, Ghanaian-Americans, Ethiopian-Americans etc mostly identify by their nationality still. Is it mostly second generation Caribbeans who identify as African American?

From my experiences, quite often. More common with West Indians, who still also identify by their nationality but they add "african american" to the mix. I've seen/experienced it first hand with 2nd/3rd gen, continental africans too...they even ask why do aframs identify as such when they're (themselves) the ones from africa

 

[im_sleep]

But Farrakhan is also a descendant of West African slaves, so everything that he said about AA's (no matter how wrong it is) could also be applied to his own people.

But he doesn't...that's the issue.

I've posted it in a previous thread, can't remember which exactly, but later I'll post a link of Dr. John Henrik Clarke calling him out on it.