The Grapevine: Africans, AA's and Caribbeans

[Biscayne]

so what should "black" be limited to? How exactly should we divide the race up?

I wanna know the answer also...

 

[Biscayne]

Oh no doubt we started that mess.


Thats why IMO when outsiders talk wild about us I try to take into account that alot of AA Hoteps help put the battery in their back to begin with.

I grew up around it too which kinda shaped my perspective about all of this. Half my fam growing up were Hotep as hell, a generation or two removed from the south...very urbanized. The other half were some country folk straight out the south who adapted to the city but kept their old ways...and thats the side I spent more time around.

I remember getting teased about eating chitlins and pig feet, being superstitious, etc. It's kinda why I feel strongly about alot of this shyt, I grew up in the middle of that rift.

In that case, you'd have more in common with Black foreigners, than you would with other AA.

 

[Gravity]

I wanna know the answer also...

Don't hold your breath waiting on an answer. That poster is a coward.

 

[Poitier]

In that case, you'd have more in common with Black foreigners, than you would with other AA.

Not really. "Bammas" vs city folk/yankees is a very distinct AA thing.

If anything, it shows that the "teasing" Black foreigners attribute distinctly as affecting them...happens inside the AA itself with no outside influences.

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

I said something like this before but yes. This is NOTHING NEW which is why I have said we should "limit" the label "black." I think @Poitier even remembers me saying that when clowns diss AA women they also mean to diss Americanized non-AA black women.

Americanized non-AA black women are able to avoid getting attacked by dusty negros because those dusty negros[especially those lets go to Brazil clowns] assume ALL Americanized black women are AA women. Hell most of the black feminist I see seem to be non-AA black women.

So again this is nothing new. Outsiders think ALL American Black people are ethnic AA especially in NYC.

Oh I've peeped all of what you just mentioned.

I've stated before I think them and the feminists are two sides of the same coin and alot of these clowns were rejects growing up...interesting stuff to consider.

I agree. I've noticed this also, the primary people having these discussions on mainstream media, writing the thinkpieces, etc are NOT native born Black Americans or if they are, they're fukking losers and rejects that finally got a little power on the internet. Many are the children of immigrants or are straight up transplants that give all this social commentary on our culture (like DJ Akademiks), or upper middle class/upper class bougie Blacks (someone on twitter called them 'Blavity blacks' I hate that fukking site) that want to pretend to be hood now or something. Very few actual native born Black Americans are tapped to give our own commentary on the shyt HAPPENING TO US IN OUR OWN COUNTRY WITH OUR OWN CULTURE. Unless we're on some Jessica Williams 'I'm a special snowflake negro' shyt or something

 

[Biscayne]

I agree. I've noticed this also, the primary people having these discussions on mainstream media, writing the thinkpieces, etc are NOT native born Black Americans or if they are, they're fukking losers and rejects that finally got a little power on the internet. Many are the children of immigrants or are straight up transplants that give all this social commentary on our culture (like DJ Akademiks), or upper middle class/upper class bougie Blacks (someone on twitter called them 'Blavity blacks' I hate that fukking site) that want to pretend to be hood now or something. Very few actual native born Black Americans are tapped to give our own commentary on the shyt HAPPENING TO US IN OUR OWN COUNTRY WITH OUR OWN CULTURE. Unless we're on some Jessica Williams 'I'm a special snowflake negro' shyt or something

Aye serene(feel free to correct my spelling) you said you had negative experiences dating black foreigner men. Do you think that we adhere to harsher patriarchal stereotypes than other black men. I've heard Haitian women say they couldn't marry Haitian men, and some AA women when they find out I'm Haitian, sometimes they pull a or tell me of a family member who told them to watch out for Haitian men. Is it common for other AA women to be skeptical about entering relationships with black foreigners?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I wanna know the answer also...

There is NO monolithic BLACK people nor is there a monolithic BLACK culture. There is however... A monolithic African-American people and a monolithic African-American culture. That CAN be marketed to the world wide stage in terms of politics and being an ambassador of your culture similar to what the Palestinians, Kurds, Tibetans and Native Americans. They go by ethnicity first to showcase their culture and history to the world.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

Are they going to have another panel discussion like this? If so I hope next time they'll make things more even.

 

[im_sleep]

Alot of feminist aren't AA. Hoteps are a mix. But even if hoteps weren't AA, wouldn't that completely go against the narrative that Black foreigners are divisive since most of that hotepology strives to bring all blacks together.

The divisiveness tends to occur on the slick. Claiming our shyt while simultaneously talking shyt about us.

Like that Karl nikka on the video.

Like that corny ass VibeHi nikka on twitter.

Like some shyt Min. Farrakhan has said in the past.

I could go on...

I'd rather a nikka just not fukk with us at all instead of pulling some shyt like that.

And maybe I should of been more clear, but I believe alot of different Hotep ideologies tend to attract rejects(btw dont take that term the wrong way)...alot of foreign Black's fall into that category so they're definitely in the mix.


The reason I stress rejects is the fact that in my opinion alot of "Hotepness" is an escape from our rural southern roots. It's not a coincidence most of these movements corresponded with the beginning of the great migration. It's not a coincidence that these movements took off in the North.

It's the reason why these nikka's go so hard on the church while using the same tactics to fleece they're own followers.


Why these nikka's go so hard on Soul Food which is why I brought up my personal experience.

Why these nikka's talk that, "we have no culture" shyt, because they were ashamed of the one our ancestors developed...ashamed they were slaves...just ashamed period. I could give examples for hours.

I've peeped this shyt since I was 7...8 years old, but it didn't really hit me till I was in my early 20's.

 

[Biscayne]

There is NO monolithic BLACK people nor is there a monolithic BLACK culture. There is however... A monolithic African-American people and a monolithic African-American culture. That CAN be marketed to the world wide stage in terms of politics and being an ambassador of your culture similar to what the Palestinians, Kurds, Tibetans and Native Americans. They go by ethnicity first to showcase their culture and history to the world.

This makes sense. But most civil rights leaders and Black American inventors are already viewed as AA's though. No matter how many cultures come in and try to take credit, I think most AA cultural contributions are viewed as such. The only groups who have stolen from AA culture and really monetized it are non blacks. Sure foreign blacks have taken advantage of the path that AA's have blazed in this nation. I don't care how offended black foreigners may feel about this, it's true. But in terms of monetizing and cultural appropriation, it's been largely non blacks who have tried to steal AA music and claim it as their own. There aren't many West Indians, or Africans getting rich off of RnB, Hip Hop, or claiming it as their own. One young african woman in the video made a point that AA's dont realize. She pointed out that most nations across the world treat THEIR Blacks like trash and are more welcoming to other Blacks. I think there was a thread on here about AA's being treated WAY better in certain Asian countries than continental Africans. Mainly because of the cultural global popularity that AA's have and because most Africans are viewed as criminal, and as scammers. Same in certain European countries where certain Africans are banished to the ghettos, but an AA will have a higher profile. Say what you will, but that AA ethno badge gives y'all privilege that you don't even realize. And yall may think Continental Africans are taking advantage(maybe here in the US) but outside the US? That's not reality.

 

[Biscayne]

The divisiveness tends to occur on the slick. Claiming our shyt while simultaneously talking shyt about us.

Like that Karl nikka on the video.

Like that corny ass VibeHi nikka on twitter.

Like some shyt Min. Farrakhan has said in the past.

I could go on...

I'd rather a nikka just not fukk with us at all instead of pulling some shyt like that.

And maybe I should of been more clear, but I believe alot of different Hotep ideologies tend to attract rejects(btw dont take that term the wrong way)...alot of foreign Black's fall into that category so they're definitely in the mix.


The reason I stress rejects is the fact that in my opinion alot of "Hotepness" is an escape from our rural southern roots. It's not a coincidence most of these movements corresponded with the beginning of the great migration. It's not a coincidence that these movements took off in the North.

It's the reason why these nikka's go so hard on the church while using the same tactics to fleece they're own followers.


Why these nikka's go so hard on Soul Food which is why I brought up my personal experience.

Why these nikka's talk that, "we have no culture" shyt, because they were ashamed of the one our ancestors developed...ashamed they were slaves...just ashamed period. I could give examples for hours.

I've peeped this shyt since I was 7...8 years old, but it didn't really hit me till I was in my early 20's.

You know what's funny about that? Black foreigners are some of the MOST religious people on the planet. ESPECIALLY in terms of Christianity. That's why i stress that Southern Blacks may have more in common with Black foreigners than they do with some other AA's depending on Region. Maybe this divide you're talking about has more to do with REGION than it does with AA vs Foreigner Blacks.



Down South, theres a greater assimilation of foreign blacks and AA's than up north. Go Houston, Miami, Atlanta. You'll see it. Just today a friend of mine(Haitian) engaged to her AA fiance here in NC. The commonalities between them? Both are very churchy and sing in the church. Her mom was crying tears of joy, Grandma was crying tears of joy. My naija homies out in Texas(both brothers) one married an AA girl, the other is engaged to an AA girl. Both of their parents happy. Commonalities? Christianity. I got a gang of female Haitian cousins in South Florida married to AA men. More and more you guys keep opening my eyes to what the REAL deal is.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

This makes sense. But most civil rights leaders and Black American inventors are already viewed as AA's though. No matter how many cultures come in and try to take credit, I think most AA cultural contributions are viewed as such. The only groups who have stolen from AA culture and really monetized it are non blacks. Sure foreign blacks have taken advantage of the path that AA's have blazed in this nation. I don't care how offended black foreigners may feel about this, it's true. But in terms of monetizing and cultural appropriation, it's been largely non blacks who have tried to steal AA music and claim it as their own. There aren't many West Indians, or Africans getting rich off of RnB, Hip Hop, or claiming it as their own. One young african woman in the video made a point that AA's dont realize. She pointed out that most nations across the world treat THEIR Blacks like trash and are more welcoming to other Blacks. I think there was a thread on here about AA's being treated WAY better in certain Asian countries than continental Africans. Mainly because of the cultural global popularity that AA's have and because most Africans are viewed as criminal, and as scammers. Same in certain European countries where certain Africans are banished to the ghettos, but an AA will have a higher profile. Say what you will, but that AA ethno badge gives y'all privilege that you don't even realize. And yall may think Continental Africans are taking advantage(maybe here in the US) but outside the US? That's not reality.

Good post but NONE of this isn't the point I was trying to make. I am not saying that foreign blacks are stealing AA culture. What I was trying to say was that AAs need to understand that "black" is NOT an ethnic term whereas "African-American" is and if they want a standing on the world stage[whether cultural or politically], then they have to go by ethnicity first.

You bringing up non-blacks stealing AA culture ACTUALLY addresses what I was trying to say.

 

[Biscayne]

Good post but NONE of this isn't the point I was trying to make. I am not saying that foreign blacks are stealing AA culture. What I was trying to say was that AAs need to understand that "black" is NOT an ethnic term whereas "African-American" is and if they want a standing on the world stage[whether cultural or politically], then they have to go by ethnicity first.

You bringing up non-blacks stealing AA culture ACTUALLY addresses what I was trying to say.

My bad. You're right. AA's need to take more ownership of AA as an ethnicity and keep using it to their advantage. Even the Haitian dude Karl, in the video alluded to that. I know alot of folks will try to jump on bored, but....too bad.



And wealthy AA's and those Blavity "Bougie" Blacks really need to take advantage also.

I'll be cheering from the sidelines as an ally.

 

[im_sleep]

You know what's funny about that? Black foreigners are some of the MOST religious people on the planet. ESPECIALLY in terms of Christianity. That's why i stress that Southern Blacks may have more in common with Black foreigners than they do with some other AA's depending on Region. Maybe this divide you're talking about has more to do with REGION than it does with AA vs Foreigner Blacks.



Down South, theres a greater assimilation of foreign blacks and AA's than up north. Go Houston, Miami, Atlanta. You'll see it. Just today a friend of mine(Haitian) engaged to her AA fiance here in NC. The commonalities between them? Both are very churchy and sing in the church. Her mom was crying tears of joy, Grandma was crying tears of joy. My naija homies out in Texas(both brothers) one married an AA girl, the other is engaged to an AA girl. Both of their parents happy. Commonalities? Christianity. I got a gang of female Haitian cousins in South Florida married to AA men. More and more you guys keep opening my eyes to what the REAL deal is.

Well yeah, when I bring up rejects in regards to foreign Blacks I'm saying them coming over fresh and brand new to a big city like NYC...since 90% of these convos involve NYC anyway...alot of the shyt they got clowned on is essentially for being country. Like @Poitier mentioned alot of it is really a city vs. bamma thing and these same things happened to us AA's amongst each other during the great migration. I think this aspect that we see alot more in the North exacerbates minor issues that may already be there. Trust me I'm not lost on the regional aspect here, I've always taken that into account.

Matter of fact, I had an interesting convo with a Jamaican chick a while back. She mentioned that AA's clowned her growing up for eating oxtails


...that was nuts to me...but guess where she was from?


I think we're agreeing more about all of this than disagreeing.

 

[Biscayne]

Well yeah, when I bring up rejects in regards to foreign Blacks I'm saying them coming over fresh and brand new to a big city like NYC...since 90% of these convos involve NYC anyway...alot of the shyt they got clowned on is essentially for being country. Like @Poitier mentioned alot of it is really a city vs. bamma thing and these same things happened to us AA's amongst each other during the great migration. I think this aspect that we see alot more in the North exacerbates minor issues that may already be there. Trust me I'm not lost on the regional aspect here, I've always taken that into account.

Matter of fact, I had an interesting convo with a Jamaican chick a while back. She mentioned that AA's clowned her growing up for eating oxtails


...that was nuts to me...but guess where she was from?


I think we're agreeing more about all of this than disagreeing.

Exactly! I worked at a Haitian restaurant in NC. And it was mainly AA's frequeting the restaurant and asking for the Ox Tails, fried Haitian pork(griot), and other Haitian dishes that were extremely similar to Southern AA dishes. I was just talking to an AA girl from DC, and she mentioned how much she loved Haitian cuisine, mainly because her grandpa lived in Florida, and lived around the corner from a Haitian spot.