And people saying the decline started in 1997 with Puff are laughable. If that were truly the case, what were Common, The Roots, and De La Soul among others critiquing pre-1997? And a lot of what they were calling out are artists and music that were celebrated at the time.
The biggest damage Diddy did to hip hop was when....
- Thread starter NYC Rebel
- Start date
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Garbage is dropped through in every area. Wow. I didn’t know that!!
But unlike past era, we weren’t inundated with it as we are now.
When we gatekept our music, you couldn’t have the same style as the next MC. Now you have entire regions (including NY) rhyming the same. We just saw a Canadian co-play his entire career by copying the styles of random MCs and people were OK with it for years until coming to a recent conniption. I was a “hater “because I was never OK with it. Someone like him would’ve been dismissed much earlier into his career years ago. Funny you bring up the 69 Boys. I recently posted a question asking if southern rappers are overseas in Europe and elsewhere, making a living and surviving like a lot of golden age emcees are now, and there were very few. so it speaks to the stickiness and quality of their music. Flimsy 15 minutes of fame music. There’s a reason why the golden era of hip hop ended in the late 90s. Since then, everyone got to get out of jail free card no matter how bad or unoriginal ones music is
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
And on the next albums, they were defending themselves, saying that it was OK to have standards. Commons line mentioned earlier in this thread? He was addressing the very shift I’m speaking on.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
And it’s OK to have a measure of elitism in music. It pushes the genre forward.
Garbage is dropped through in every area. Wow. I didn’t know that!!
But unlike past era, we weren’t inundated with it as we are now.
When we gatekept our music, you couldn’t have the same style as the next MC. Now you have entire regions (including NY) rhyming the same. We just saw a Canadian co-play his entire career by copying the styles of random MCs and people were OK with it for years until coming to recent conniption. Someone like him would’ve been dismissed much earlier into his career years ago. Funny you bring up the 69 Boys. I recently posted a question asking if southern rappers are overseas in Europe and elsewhere, make it a living and surviving like a lot of golden age emcees are now, and there were very few. so it speaks to the stickiness and quality of their music. Flimsy 15 minutes of fame music. There’s a reason why the golden era of hip hop ended in the late 90s. Since then, everyone got to get out of jail free card no matter how bad or unoriginal ones music is
Biting and being unoriginal isn't the same as calling something garbage though. There is no subjectivity when it comes to biting or being unoriginal. Of course that was called out and was still called out even after Puff and them. I still remember Missy and Timbaland calling out beat biters.
Today, "biting" and being "unoriginal" is accepted because people look at biters as "children" of their favorite artists and use it to prop artists due to "influence" or their limited understanding of it.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Its garbage. Its foul. At the end of the day, it was a negative when values and standards were tied to our music.
Action Bronson doesnt exist 25 years ago with the original in Ghostface around.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
I’m not into feelings, so if someone is butt hurt by something, do better.
someone wrote a great piece last year about the 50th anniversary of hip hop and its downward turn. There’s a part talks about an interview with the late jazz drummer Art Taylor. Taylor talked about missing the days he’d play at a bar and talk to the pimps and prostitutes over a drink during breaks. The money wasn’t there, but the people enjoyed the music on its terms, and discussed it in ways that made sense.
And here you are telling me there’s something wrong with those of us who were on the ground floor of loving this genre with having our terms rather than this, anything goes bullshyt because somebody on this planet will like it.
We laughed at this scene when this barber was the only one liking trash.
Today, that non-participatory crowd who didnt enjoy Randy’s performance would be called haters or “eLITiStS”
Man please.
Puff co-opting hating was a pink eraser to terms and standards we had which produced great music.
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I’m not into feelings, so if someone is butt hurt by something, do better.
@Walt wrote a great piece last year about the 50th anniversary of hip hop and its downward turn. There’s a part he touches talks about an interview with the late jazz drummer Art Taylor. Taylor talked about missing the days he’d play at a bar and talk to the pimps and prostitutes over a drink during breaks. The money wasn’t there, but the people enjoyed the music on its terms, and discussed it in ways that made sense.
And here you are telling me there’s something wrong with those of us who were on the ground floor of loving this genre with having our terms rather than this, anything goes bullshyt because somebody on this planet will like it.
Man please
Those who are "butt hurt" aren't prompted to do better. Westside Connection dissed Common. The Roots and De La Soul were dissed for their critiques.
What I'm telling you is everybody has their own opinions and it is not in the realm of reality to think that calling someone's music or musical tastes "trash" is
1) factual
2) that people should sit there and accept your opinion as such
If everything was really like that, we wouldn't have forums. Your idea of gatekeeping doesn't even foster originality because you can't really be original without someone not liking it. Why? You're introducing something fresh, which is going to make some people feel uncomfortable until they "get it". They may never "get it".
Were you there? Cuz we were. There's no way you can compare the feeling of 98 and up to the prior years. I was starving myself and hustling just to afford all the classics that were dropping. You could feel the shift after Puff in real time. I had countless conversations with friends as the shyt was happening.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Were they supposed to be dissproof? I don’t get it.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
He didnt or wasn’t old enough to have the lived in experience of that shift.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Why don’t you answer the question?
Are you there? Do you have the lived in experience of that shift?