The Beef between Upper & Lower Class Blacks during the 2nd Great Migration

[invalid]

Can you explain the fears and concerns they had? And their reasoning?

It's the same fears that straight men have when not wanting to associate with gay men. A fear of guilt by association which would lead to revocation of sexual privileges by women.

It's the same fears, unfounded or not, that we have when something tragic happens and we pray to God that the perpetrator isn't black. The idea of them "setting back the race", because white supremacy views us all as one, and as a result of their actions, getting our privileges revoked.

The fear is a denial of access and privilege.

And their fears turned out to be true.

Before the Great Migration, blacks in many urban centers were working hard towards progress and respectability. Attaining education, owning business, building wealth, so much so that, while race relations were not perfect, they were congenial to the point that blacks lived integrated lives, attended integrated schools, could shop in regular stores, if having owned businesses, had white clientele, etc. They built up for themselves relative privilege and access.

The arrival of southern migrants killed all of that in places like Chicago, where the city pushed all blacks to the black belt. The native blacks had to leave behind their homes and businesses in other neighborhoods for the black belt. The Great Migration was the catalyst for Chicago's historic segregation. No longer could native blacks freely travel around the city, patronize downtown stores, or have access to integrated schools or neighborhoods. Access and privileges were revoked and now after years of working towards progress, they had to be subjected to redlining, restrictive covenants, and other predatory laws. For those that could get in, they could still attend the University of Chicago, but they could not stay in the dorms any longer and had to find housing off campus.

So those were their fears and in many places they were warranted. The only recourse that many of these people had was to try to set themselves apart from the arriving masses which proved to be in vain in many cases.

We all have these same fears and they play out in different facet of our lives. I understand that the snobbery is a brick wall but people need to recognize what's behind all that in the video.

 

[AVXL]

My maternal grandparents were from Atlanta and I didn’t find out until they died that they didn’t trust light skin black folks

On my Dad’s side, grandma is from Va and went to Spelman and she low key could’ve passed as white. She didn’t look down on lower class blacks (sometimes ) but she was highly educated and lived in one of the nicer places in Atlanta for black people in Atlanta.

This class shyt amongst black people isn’t new nor is it going anywhere

 

[Supper]

You know I stay on my Genealogy research/family tree hobby -- and earlier this year I found out I have some - I guess Creole ancestry.

I recently joined the surname FB group -- and It's crazy how most of them have all transitioned/breeded out their Blackness.

smh Once upon a time I joined one of them groups many years ago just for shyts and giggles. Never seen so much arrogant ignorance and delusion of grandeur in my life.

But, yeah really NO's mulatto elite could be actual creoles of colonial LA heritage or Afro-Anglos of post LA purchase ancestry, especially those of carolinian hertiage.

The ones who are still Black -- are very light. I don't know how I am connected to them -- but I am. Cause, both me and my Mom have a host of them as 2nd/3rd cousins. All from Lousiana.

I have no clue how my people in Alabama got mixed in.

US creole heritage actually begins in Mobile Alabama.

But, I think most of them (Mulatto FPOC) continued to stay connected amongst themselves -- via class and other factors such as skin-tone as well. Sure, many branched out -- but they still kept rank.

Most of them either passed as white or took on black identity, but there are still a few, mostly older folks, from certain families mainly in the carolinas & New Orleans that managed to hold on to their mulatto identity.

 

[EBK String]

It's the same fears that straight men have when not wanting to associate with gay men. A fear of guilt by association which would lead to revocation of sexual privileges by women.

It's the same fears, unfounded or not, that we have when something tragic happens and we pray to God that the perpetrator isn't black. The idea of them "setting back the race", because white supremacy views us all as one, and as a result of their actions, getting our privileges revoked.

The fear is a denial of access and privilege.

And their fears turned out to be true.

Before the Great Migration, blacks in many urban centers were working hard towards progress and respectability. Attaining education, owning business, building wealth, so much so that, while race relations were not perfect, they were congenial to the point that blacks lived integrated lives, attended integrated schools, could shop in regular stores, if having owned businesses, had white clientele, etc. They built up for themselves relative privilege and access.

The arrival of southern migrants killed all of that in places like Chicago, where the city pushed all blacks to the black belt. The native blacks had to leave behind their homes and businesses in other neighborhoods for the black belt. The Great Migration was the catalyst for Chicago's historic segregation. No longer could native blacks freely travel around the city, patronize downtown stores, or have access to integrated schools or neighborhoods. Access and privileges were revoked and now after years of working towards progress, they had to be subjected to redlining, restrictive covenants, and other predatory laws. For those that could get in, they could still attend the University of Chicago, but they could not stay in the dorms any longer and had to find housing off campus.

So those were their fears and in many places they were warranted. The only recourse that many of these people had was to try to set themselves apart from the arriving masses which proved to be in vain in many cases.

We all have these same fears and they play out in different facet of our lives. I understand that the snobbery is a brick wall but people need to recognize what's behind all that in the video.

wonderful people on both sides ass nikka

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

@IllmaticDelta you need to put a youtube channel or book or somethin breh your info is

 

[xoxodede]

It's the same fears that straight men have when not wanting to associate with gay men. A fear of guilt by association which would lead to revocation of sexual privileges by women.

It's the same fears, unfounded or not, that we have when something tragic happens and we pray to God that the perpetrator isn't black. The idea of them "setting back the race", because white supremacy views us all as one, and as a result of their actions, getting our privileges revoked.

The fear is a denial of access and privilege.

And their fears turned out to be true.

Before the Great Migration, blacks in many urban centers were working hard towards progress and respectability. Attaining education, owning business, building wealth, so much so that, while race relations were not perfect, they were congenial to the point that blacks lived integrated lives, attended integrated schools, could shop in regular stores, if having owned businesses, had white clientele, etc. They built up for themselves relative privilege and access.

The arrival of southern migrants killed all of that in places like Chicago, where the city pushed all blacks to the black belt. The native blacks had to leave behind their homes and businesses in other neighborhoods for the black belt. The Great Migration was the catalyst for Chicago's historic segregation. No longer could native blacks freely travel around the city, patronize downtown stores, or have access to integrated schools or neighborhoods. Access and privileges were revoked and now after years of working towards progress, they had to be subjected to redlining, restrictive covenants, and other predatory laws. For those that could get in, they could still attend the University of Chicago, but they could not stay in the dorms any longer and had to find housing off campus.

So those were their fears and in many places they were warranted. The only recourse that many of these people had was to try to set themselves apart from the arriving masses which proved to be in vain in many cases.

We all have these same fears and they play out in different facet of our lives. I understand that the snobbery is a brick wall but people need to recognize what's behind all that in the video.

Thanks for trying to explain.

I don't see how blame was/is placed on Southern "migrants" for White Supremacy and them showing their true colors.

Which they always had being doing. But, the small amount of Black people in Chicago and apparently their attitudes on being the good ONES -- during that time made it easier for them to be there.

Even when they were integrated areas - they were still treated as less than. And one look or even brush against a white person - could mean death, etc.

Even before Emancipation -- they were subject to (and many where) placed right back into enslavement.

Can you give more information on how The Great Migration killed Chicago? It was not them. It was ethnic (WHITE) migrants who killed it IMO. The second phase of the Great Migration -- during the GM/Ford boom when most Southern Blacks came to the North and Midwest.

At the same time, recent and older ethnic immigrants competed for jobs and housing with the new arrivals, especially on the South Side, where the steel and meatpacking industries had the most numerous working-class jobs.

Ethnic Irish were heavily implicated in the gang violence and the rioting that erupted in 1919. They had been the most established ethnic group and defended their power and territory in the South Side against newcomers: both other ethnic whites and southern blacks.
​

 

[Barnett114]

It's the same fears that straight men have when not wanting to associate with gay men. A fear of guilt by association which would lead to revocation of sexual privileges by women.

It's the same fears, unfounded or not, that we have when something tragic happens and we pray to God that the perpetrator isn't black. The idea of them "setting back the race", because white supremacy views us all as one, and as a result of their actions, getting our privileges revoked.

The fear is a denial of access and privilege.

And their fears turned out to be true.

Before the Great Migration, blacks in many urban centers were working hard towards progress and respectability. Attaining education, owning business, building wealth, so much so that, while race relations were not perfect, they were congenial to the point that blacks lived integrated lives, attended integrated schools, could shop in regular stores, if having owned businesses, had white clientele, etc. They built up for themselves relative privilege and access.

The arrival of southern migrants killed all of that in places like Chicago, where the city pushed all blacks to the black belt. The native blacks had to leave behind their homes and businesses in other neighborhoods for the black belt. The Great Migration was the catalyst for Chicago's historic segregation. No longer could native blacks freely travel around the city, patronize downtown stores, or have access to integrated schools or neighborhoods. Access and privileges were revoked and now after years of working towards progress, they had to be subjected to redlining, restrictive covenants, and other predatory laws. For those that could get in, they could still attend the University of Chicago, but they could not stay in the dorms any longer and had to find housing off campus.

So those were their fears and in many places they were warranted. The only recourse that many of these people had was to try to set themselves apart from the arriving masses which proved to be in vain in many cases.

We all have these same fears and they play out in different facet of our lives. I understand that the snobbery is a brick wall but people need to recognize what's behind all that in the video.

 

[invalid]

Afro-Anglos of post LA purchase ancestry, especially those of carolinian hertiage.

It's funny that you mentioned this because that is my father's side. They were from the Florida Parishes, came from French families but did not consider themselves Creoles. I asked some family members why and they said they were known as the "Redbones".

It was interesting, they had French surnames but Anglo first names. They were not Roman Catholic, the French families were Huguenots from Orangeburg and Charleston so they were Protestant. They owned businesses and education and such.

It was the first time I learned that there were two different groups - the Creoles and Louisiana Redbones.

My Great Grandfather's family from Centralia were originally from the Florida Parishes of Louisiana and New Orleans.

Even for the enslaved side of my family from Southern Mississippi and the Florida Parishes, even the white families that owned them had not been in those areas for long but came to the "frontier" from the Carolinas. Literally the same families from the Carolinas moved together and settled in Lower Mississippi and Upper Louisiana after the Revolution. So lots of moving around.

 

[xoxodede]

smh Once upon a time I joined one of them groups many years ago just for shyts and giggles. Never seen so much arrogant ignorance and delusion of grandeur in my life.

But, yeah really NO's mulatto elite could be actual creoles of colonial LA heritage or Afro-Anglos of post LA purchase ancestry, especially those of carolinian hertiage.



US creole heritage actually begins in Mobile Alabama.

Most of them either passed as white or took on black identity, but there are still a few, mostly older folks, from certain families mainly in the carolinas & New Orleans that managed to hold on to their mulatto identity.

Yeah, my "Cousin" who wanted me to join the group looks like a full blown White man. I may be the darkest one in the group -- and i'm light brown. But, I digress.

Anyway, the ancestor we are connected (I think) to is listed as Mulatto and his Wife was listed as Mulatto but her father was born in France. So, I am thinking Placage.

On Alabama -- yeah - I know the Mobile Creoles are deep but I have no connection to them that I know of. Via my research - but I am still looking though.

I believe they had to intermarriage with those types of families. To continue to stay that way.

 

[invalid]

I don't see how blame was/is placed on Southern "migrants" for White Supremacy and them showing their true colors.

I feel like we always judge the past by the information that we have today. Of course when we look back we know that it was white supremacy.

However, that group was expressing anger and like all humans are guilty of doing sometimes, placing the blame on the easier weaker target.

I hate to use this word, but what I'm saying is, is there no sympathy to be found for their situation?

I don't think this is a zero sum gain. I think we can have sympathy for both the native blacks and the southern migrants. All were victims of white supremacy and however dismal, the video is an expression of their discontent although being directed at the wrong target.

Can you give more information on how The Great Migration killed Chicago?

I didn't say that it killed Chicago. I said the Great Migration killed the privileges of the native blacks forcing them to the black belt with the rest of the southern migrants. That had nothing to do with the ethnic immigrants.

 

[xoxodede]

I feel like we always judge the past by the information that we have today. Of course when we look back we know that it was white supremacy.

However, that group was expressing anger and like all humans are guilty of doing sometimes, placing the blame on the easier weaker target.

I hate to use this word, but what I'm saying is, is there no sympathy to be found for their situation?

I don't think this is a zero sum gain. I think we can have sympathy for both the native blacks and the southern migrants. All were victims of white supremacy and however dismal, the video is an expression of their discontent although being directed at the wrong target.



I didn't say that it killed Chicago. I said the Great Migration killed the privileges of the native blacks forcing them to the black belt with the rest of the southern migrants.

Native Blacks meaning the Maroons (Runaway Enslaved) who were from the South -- who fled to Chicago?

African Americans would only become established as a community in the 1840s, with the population reaching 1,000 by 1860. Much of this population consisted of escaped slaves from the Upper South. Following the end of Reconstruction in 1877, African Americans flowed from the Deep South into Chicago, raising the population from approximately 4,000 in 1870 to 15,000 in 1890.​

I'm sorry, I have no empathy. And that hurts me to say -- because they were the same as those "migrants" --they just were able to runaway and be freed before them. They knew of the circumstances and reasoning why those migrants left the South.
The U.S. was/is their home too -- which meant they could roam it freely - and be where-ever they wanted to be.

Forcing them to the Black Belt? Can you explain what that means? Because, it's well documented those "native blacks" still continued to hold positions of power over the Southern migrants -- and had better education than them as well. So, they kept their jobs and businesses they had as well - they just had Black clients more so than whites.

I think you have mixed up. The Ethnic Whites made them lose their privileges -- not Southern Blacks.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

The arrival of southern migrants killed all of that in places like Chicago, where the city pushed all blacks to the black belt. The native blacks had to leave behind their homes and businesses in other neighborhoods for the black belt. The Great Migration was the catalyst for Chicago's historic segregation. No longer could native blacks freely travel around the city, patronize downtown stores, or have access to integrated schools or neighborhoods. Access and privileges were revoked and now after years of working towards progress, they had to be subjected to redlining, restrictive covenants, and other predatory laws. For those that could get in, they could still attend the University of Chicago, but they could not stay in the dorms any longer and had to find housing off campus.

So those were their fears and in many places they were warranted. The only recourse that many of these people had was to try to set themselves apart from the arriving masses which proved to be in vain in many cases.

We all have these same fears and they play out in different facet of our lives. I understand that the snobbery is a brick wall but people need to recognize what's behind all that in the video.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

wonderful people on both sides ass nikka

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Thanks for trying to explain.

I don't see how blame was/is placed on Southern "migrants" for White Supremacy and them showing their true colors.

Which they always had being doing. But, the small amount of Black people in Chicago and apparently their attitudes on being the good ONES -- during that time made it easier for them to be there.

Even when they were integrated areas - they were still treated as less than. And one look or even brush against a white person - could mean death, etc.

Even before Emancipation -- they were subject to (and many where) placed right back into enslavement.

Can you give more information on how The Great Migration killed Chicago? It was not them. It was ethnic (WHITE) migrants who killed it IMO. The second phase of the Great Migration -- during the GM/Ford boom when most Southern Blacks came to the North and Midwest.

At the same time, recent and older ethnic immigrants competed for jobs and housing with the new arrivals, especially on the South Side, where the steel and meatpacking industries had the most numerous working-class jobs.

Ethnic Irish were heavily implicated in the gang violence and the rioting that erupted in 1919. They had been the most established ethnic group and defended their power and territory in the South Side against newcomers: both other ethnic whites and southern blacks.
​

I think @boy is basically saying that the lower numbers/more well off "black" population were allowed to live peacefully until the black population increased; then white folks starting acting up

that happened in Philly too with its free black population, then Irish/white folks started acting up

 

[xoxodede]

I think @boy is basically saying that the lower numbers/more well of "black" population were allowed to live peacefully until the black population increased; then white folks starting acting up

that happened in Philly too with its free black population, then Irish/white folks started acting up

No, I understand that. But, that reason is why they were tolerated. They were still the help and knew their place. With the influx of White Ethnic immigrants came loss of jobs, status and in addition violence.

We also have to remember, whites from the South were migrants too - and moving right along with Black Southerners -- so they were bringing their rules and attitudes to the North as well.

Read up on GM/Ford in Chicago and Detriot -- it's full of White Southerners joining their White Northern and White Immigrant brothers in KKK activities and groups.

My Daddy and Uncles got suspended from the Plant plenty of times for fighting White folks talking shyt.

But, I am appreciative of him trying to explain and share his views.