Tariq & Akademiks Arguing Over Origins of Hip Hop

[kingofnyc]

The clearly states that those Queens and Brooklyn DJs played the whole song
while him and his affiliates from Bronxdale/Soundview focused on the beat which became the spark to hip-hop music

so, finally … your video proves my point

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Are you from the Bronx or Brooklyn? People from the BX swear by it that Hip Hop arose and developed at the Bronx not Brooklyn. I never heard anyone in earlier days make the claim Brooklyn was a factor in the early stage of development, and I knew people from both places. I'm wondering why no one ever made claims to the birth of Hip Hop being from Brooklyn in 80s, that part is confusing to. MC Shan said "Queens Bridge", but rectified that one quick, or rather was forced to do so. The ticket and flyers are convincing and hard to refute.

Harlem is the origin of the truly syncopated rapping djs with 2 turntables and mixer

brooklyn and queens had the sound systems

brooklyn via Grandmaster Flowers did have an early rapper (KC The Prince of Soul) but his style wasn't truly syncopated in the hiphop style that came from hollywood




and mentioned before that Flowers had early stage bboys who did Brooklyn Rocking (what we now call Uprock)


Pete Dj Jones: "One of the first rapping dj's (KC The Prince Of Soul), I stole him from Flowers"

Do you remember the kinds of records you were playing in that early ’70s period?

I was playing most of the hits, like James Brown… I think what created hip-hop was the multi-ethnic music in the New York area. Every DJ had an MC.

Did you have one?

Yeah, KC The Prince Of Soul. I stole him from Flowers. He started MCing with me around 1971, then I had JD The Disco Prince, then I had Lovebug Starski.


Lovebug Starski - You've Gotta Believe
When did you start using MCs?

I started MCing myself, I used to like talking over the music. You got guys like Kool Herc and Bambaataa that claimed they started hip-hop, they gotta remember that hip-hop emerged from R&B. I had a lot of rappers say they was influenced by me. These rappers started emerging about 1975 and 1976.

“That Special Beat:” An Interview with One of Hip-Hop’s Founders, Pete DJ Jones

More and more DJs were incorporating emcees into their sets; that is, having someone on the microphone shouting out the DJ and keeping the party moving. KC Prince of Soul, Grandmaster Flowers’ emcee, was the first to talk over a record—imitating popular radio DJ Hank Spann of WWRL. Soon after, Harlem’s DJ Hollywood began talking over his mixes and became more famous for his wordplay than for his deejaying. Hollywood’s street fame led to him selling copies of his deejay sets around the way at barbershops and bodegas. On the strength of their party-friendly approach, Eddie Cheeba and DJ Hollywood became the house DJs at Harlem’s Club 371.

A Toast to Grandmaster Flash: Hip-hop Pioneer, Turntable Wizard and Superhero DJ



; people who were there, said he had a crew of early stage bboys

Uprock, or Rocking as it was originally referred to, also known as Rock, is a competitive urban street dance, performed to the beats and rhythms of soul, rock and funk music, but was mostly danced to a specific and exclusive collection of songs that contained a hard driving beat. An example of such a song is the Uprock classic "It's Just Begun" by noted jazz musician Jimmy Castor. The dance consists of foot shuffles, spins, turns, freestyle movements and more characteristically a four-point sudden body movement called "jerk".

Uprock evolved in New York City circa in the late 1960s. A precursor and influence to this form of dance was gang culture.

As Rocking/Uprocking developed, body movements called "jerks" and hand gestures called "burns" (as defined above in this article), would be added to emulate a fight against an opposing dancer. Being skillful in this new dance form, Apache would get the better of his opponents by skillfully using burns. Dancers throughout New York City in all Boroughs continued to invent new movements and gestures to create a street dance. Many gang members began to perform this dance. It became commonplace to see gang members hanging out in corners dancing against each other. Rocking/Uprocking became a competitive dance that caught on very quickly.

Spoiler

now, connect the dots....

On the Ilixor boards, PappaWheelie reports that "At a lecture about hip hop history at the Brooklyn public library the lecturer was interupted, while claiming hip hop to have originated out in the Bronx, by an angry man claiming hip hop to have started out in Brooklyn. After gaing the attention of the crowd the man, whose name escapes me now, proceded to produce photos and a flyer, both dated 1968, of Grandmaster Flowers rocking a party of thousands in Brooklyn and in the front row are what appeared to be bboys uprocking. Who knows, it might just turn out to be that Brooklyn keeps on makin it and its the Bronx that keeps on takin it."

Brooklyn Music: BrooklynBio: The Mystery of Grandmaster Flowers

 

[Ish Gibor]

This guy has some good info but some of his "facts" are off, since he didn't come into HipHop until 1977. His info on DJ Smokey is great though; dude has to get interviewed by someone because he predated Herc on the Westside of the Bronx but he's been largely wiped out of the history, save the few heads who happen to mention him.

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Repost on Smokey:


"Dj Smokey and Disco King Mario predate Herc"

These interviews / conversations by Yanadameen were lit. I miss those.

Going by what DST said Herc had the sound-system to make it work and this was an important development.



I’m not sure if what he said is correct about the term “Hip Hop”, being commercially used until 1992. Then again I never paid attention to it either. I do know / remember people always asking “what is that thing called y’all do” and we had to explain Hip Hop… Fact is that they socially engineered it to what it has become. I suspect it had to do with the Hip Hop “Gestapo”. They slowly waited their turn and as usually Black people are asleep… and start to wake up when it’s late, too late.

A Day in the Bronx: Remembering the Black Spades & Their Connection to Hip Hop – Davey D's Hip Hop Corner

Posts about A Day in the Bronx: Remembering the Black Spades & Their Connection to Hip Hop written by Davey D

hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com

Well done article.

Forgotten Founding Father: Disco King Mario - Hip Hop Golden Age

By 1971, Disco King Mario was an eminent DJ in the Bronx. He was known for his superior sound system and his love for combining music and a good time. Mario came up during the era where you had to be tough enough to bring your equipment out, because of how prevalent gangs and violence […]

hiphopgoldenage.com

Four on the floor was developed by MoTown drummer Earl Young. This became fundamental to disco, what later became House. Had to correct DST there. Disco came from jazz musicians, as is explained by Nile Rogers.




“Disco elements appeared i n the late 1960s with songs "Tighten Up" of group Archie Bell & the Drells, "Mony, Mony" of Tommy James and The Shondells, "Dance to the Music"of the group Sly & The Family Stone, "Love Child" of Diana Ross and The Supremes etc.”

Google Sites: Sign-in

Access Google Sites with a personal Google account or Google Workspace account (for business use).

sites.google.com

Nile Rogers explains at 16th minute onwards the transition from blues to Jazz, to dance music, known as disco.



Here he explains it as well, but doesn’t elaborate on it as much.




“Rodgers and Edwards first met in 1970, when both were jazz-trained musicians fresh out of high school. Edwards had attended New York's High School for the Performing Arts and was working in a Bronx post office at the time, while Rodgers' early career also included stints in the folk group New World Rising and the Apollo Theater house orchestra”

CHIC - NileRodgers.com

www.nilerodgers.com

Ironically his production Good Times became one of the household songs for Hip Hop.

A typical four on the floor with back beat drums by The Gab Band, Sylvia Striplin, MFSB, Roy Ayers.

@4:50

he breaks it down even further on how the repeated hiphop origin story is perpetuated by pioneers who want all the shine for themselves so they purposely never bring up these heads that predate them. For those who don't know about Smokey, he was from the West Bronx like Herc:

repost:



dj smoke had bboys and he was around the same time as herc (actually before...many of the bboys we associate with herc were with smokey first))

Ill-literature with Skillz to Blaze: One Night At the Executive Playhouse

^^the ones I bolded in blue are all way before Herc (1968-1972). Dj Smoke is slightly before (1971)/from the same time and area as Herc (1973). More on him and his dance crew

Great map to show the demographic and amazing article with a lot of documented DJ names I've never heard of. I will accumulate these names and organize them. From there we can do more schematically.

I heard something weird about Madonna (the singer) being part of the Zulu Nation? And Bam also stated that the Puerto Rican actress Rita Moreno from West Side Story was also part of the Zulu Nation.

Even dudes that later went to Herc's parties/were part of his crew have basically verified this.


Almighty KG from Cold Crush

I remember this documentary. A friend of mine had it on video tape. It brings back memories. Watery eyes.

recent interview (he's from herc's area)


Castles In The Sky: August 2018

Thanks.

Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts

Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

Thanks, always appreciated when them older heads speak on this, as they were there. His voice is still strong as he rocks the mic.

Most people didn't about the Zulu Nation and most still don't know the importance of the Black Spades and relevance of the 5% in Hip Hop.

I had to post this one by G.L.O.B.E..

here goes an OG bboy who was part of herc's team who said he was bboying way before he heard of herc and was down with dj dmoke first!

Clark Kent:

Castles In The Sky

Honestly dandy know this. Thanks. It get's more complicated as we progress. A lot of people probably have been left out, due to convince and for the dollar bill. As DST said.

Melle Mel mentions him as the first person he saw doing hiphop in the west bronx

I remember this interview from a few years ago. Still a great interview. The unexpected intermezzo with Raheem at 11:30 was dope. "How about we spilt up the money five ways, and I was like…" : "Everybody scream, shout".

Green Eyed Genie is from Bronxdale and his thoughts on Smokey/Herc




...........that herc origin myth is exactly that, a myth now the man himself, Dj Smokey Castles In The Sky

It has been thickened up real heavy. It didn't do other contributors justice, which is unfortunate. But I wonder, was it Herc or was it others who created this narrative about him? Or is it jealousy by other who spite Herc's success?

We also have others who have passed away and whose story will not be heard.

 

[Ish Gibor]

The clearly states that those Queens and Brooklyn DJs played the whole song
while him and his affiliates from Bronxdale/Soundview focused on the beat which became the spark to hip-hop music

so, finally … your video proves my point

I agree here. The repetition of the break is in essence what made Hip Hop. This is unique to Hip Hop.

All The Way Live in '82, by Cold Crush Brothers

6 track album

tuffcity.com

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The clearly states that those Queens and Brooklyn DJs played the whole song

you realize this same point is why Herc DID NOT start HipHop in 1973? Herc played the whole record and didn't start to attempt to loop until 1975!! Read below and watch herc get caught up in his own lies; only for the real truth to come out by people who were with Herc in the early days (Clark Kent) or who witnessed his early jams (Ceedee)


Question # 3) when /where did Herc actually attempt looping with 2 copies of the same record?

This will definitely further show you just how much that 1973 origin story is a myth


Herc in the video above tried to say he played/came across the "Merry-Go-Round" or looping breaks (he said he played James brown "Give it Up Turn It Loose" and Incredible Bongo Band's "Apache" or "Bongo Rock" in 1973 but the people who were actually there say otherwise. Let's look deeper into this:

By 1974, Herc was playing outdoors in the summer – in Cedar Park, where the decks and sound systems drew power from streetlights. But he was also getting booked at Bronx clubs, and one night he decided to spin the percussion breakdown from two copies of the same record one after the other, effectively replaying the break and extending it. The record was either Bongo Rock or Apache, by the Incredible Bongo Band. "And when I extended the break, people were ecstatic, because that was the best part of the record to dance to, and they were trippin' off it," he said in 1997.

DJ Kool Herc DJs his first block party (his sister's birthday) at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, Bronx, New York

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Here's where that story falls apart


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Clark Kent who didn't get with Herc until late 1974 as I pointed out before, recalls how and when he intoduced the concept of playing double copies to Herc as opposed to spinning two separate records that didn't match in tempos/musically via the "Merry-Go-Round"

Clark Kent: "anyone who was there knew herc only had one copy of apache and he used to mix it with scorpio...that was ok and it worked out for the 'Merry-Go-Round' but I thought it would be better if he had another copy of Apache. We were at the Hevalo (a club) and I gave Herc a/the second copy of Apache. Herc puts on Apache, everyone is anticipating him fading into Scorpio and then all of a sudden, everybody hears Apache come back again, and then everybody went nuts"

Spoiler

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Lets see what the early participants have to say


pioneering Bboy, Trxie's

Spoiler

thoughts on Herc looping breaks/playing segments

NORIN RAD: "When did you start breaking and who inspired you to start breaking?"

TRIXIE: "I'm gonna say it like this....Did nobody inspire me to start breaking 'cause I already knew how to dance. I started breakdancing in 1971, then 72,73...yeah, and I stopped dancing in 1974/75. When we did go to Herc's parties that's when I took it to another level. All my friends could tell you I already knew how to dance so it wasn't like I didn't know how to dance. Nobody did..I put it to you like this. My Mother was a dancer so I gotta say my mother kind of inspired me to dance."

NORIN RAD: "Is it true that breaking at that time was done mainly on top?"

TRIXIE:"Yeah,you would get into the move of it, you know?! Then once you see an opening then you come down to the ground and do your rolls, your spins, all of that....but you see there is a timing for that. A lot of people the way they are breaking right now all they do is the floormoves, they are not actually dancing. No! We didn't do it like that.You danced first then you break ..."Oh Boy, you now break Boy!" Then you come back up and you dance again.It was a dance. That's what it was. It was dance breaking."

Norin Rad:"And back then B-Boys used to dance to the whole song, right? Not just the break part?"

TRIXIE: "Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! From beginning to end! Whoever gets tired or whatever (against you)...you're the winner. Back in my time I could dance a whole album. A whole album by myself!"

Castles In The Sky: INTERVIEW WITH THE ORIGINAL B-BOY TRIXIE


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Niqqa Twins

Spoiler

their thoughts

SIR NORIN RAD:"So in your era it was important to match the music with your moves?"

KEITH:"Absolutely!!! Absolutely!!!! That's what we would do when we were at home practicing. We knew that what we was going to do had to be a part of the music. Just like somebody doing a Broadway show. They know every move they gonna make of every sound that comes off the instruments. They know what they gonna be doing at that point. We practiced! That's what we did! We practiced! We knew that for every B-Boy record there was a break part that came because they didn't play just the break, they would play the whole record. If you play James Brown's "Give It Up Or Turn It Aloose" you had to wait for the "Clap your hands, stomp your feet.....Clyde!"- part. That's when the break came in. Herc wasn't mixing up those parts back and forth like that at that time (at his early parties). He would put one record on and then it would play all the way through. It was the same with "It's Just Begun", you know what I'm saying? After that saxophone part that's when the break came in and that's when you did whatever you had for that particular section. It was also the same with "Get Into Something" which was a very beautiful song to dance off of because it was so uptempo and then it had that break which was in the middle part of that song! Same thing with Baby Huey's "Listen To Me"...you know, you would be dancing that whole song and then that break part would come very late in that song. You had to have a lot of stuff going on to get to that break part and then when that break came in that's when you really had to go in....do some of your fiercest moves at that point. It was a lot different than it is today...the B-Boy thing, you know what I'm saying?"

Castles In The Sky



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Ced Gee (west bronx) of ultramagnetic, witnessed early herc jams says it's a misconception that Herc was rocking with 2 turntables and looping in the early days. He makes it very clear that Herc was just playing the whole song on 1 turntable.

Spoiler

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What Herc and the 1973 origin myth is trying to keep under wraps is that while Herc agrees he first started looping/double copies at the Hevelo as does Clark Kent, Herc didn't start djing there until 1975/1976!

Herc- This, this was the Hevalo. Now it’s a car park.

Q- What year did you start playing here?

Herc - The good old year here was ’75, ’76.

Interview: DJ Kool Herc

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In the book: The Record Players - The Story of Dance Music Told By History's Greatest DJ


Herc says he started playing breaks in 1974

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.but if you listen to the original interview Herc clearly admits that he started looping (attempting) in 1975 or 1976 which lines up with the Clark Kent story about giving Herc a copy of Apache for his birthday at the Hevalo so he could have 2 copies

As it turns out, Broughton has also made audio from the interview available at the Rock's Backpages website. Here's how it plays out on that original recording, beginning at 50:20:BROUGHTON: So the break... When you started playing breaks, which year is this?

HERC: That's in '75, '76.

BROUGHTON: And it was in the Hevalo?

HERC: Yeah.

BROUGHTON: And did...

HERC: It was earlier than that too, 'cause I had funky music before I came up to the Hevalo. It was earlier than that. I played it, but I never - you know - really put a lot of emphasis into it.lxii

Perfect Sound Forever: Kool Herc's historic moment, detailed

the website is--->Articles, interviews and reviews from Frank Broughton: Rock's Backpages.

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while him and his affiliates from Bronxdale/Soundview focused on the beat which became the spark to hip-hop music

so, finally … your video proves my point

Pete Dj Jones was from Brooklyn and he was looping breaks, where do think Flash learned it from?


Remember I told you disco djs were already looping breaks by having 2 copies of the same record?

Spoiler

Herc didn't know how to do this but Flash learned it and brought in via Pete DJ Jones

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In fact, Flash and Kurtis Blow both say Pete Dj Jones was the first person they saw rocking 2 copies of the same record on 2 turtables to loop breaks in 1972!

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Final point: Kool D flat out says Pete Dj Jones was looping breaks way before Herc!!

 

[TripleAgent]

you realize this same point is why Herc DID NOT start HipHop in 1973? Herc played the whole record and didn't start to attempt to loop until 1975!! Read below and watch herc get caught up in his own lies; only for the real truth to come out by people who were with Herc in the early days (Clark Kent) or who witnessed his early jams (Ceedee)


Question # 3) when /where did Herc actually attempt looping with 2 copies of the same record?

This will definitely further show you just how much that 1973 origin story is a myth


Herc in the video above tried to say he played/came across the "Merry-Go-Round" or looping breaks (he said he played James brown "Give it Up Turn It Loose" and Incredible Bongo Band's "Apache" or "Bongo Rock" in 1973 but the people who were actually there say otherwise. Let's look deeper into this:




DJ Kool Herc DJs his first block party (his sister's birthday) at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, Bronx, New York

.
.

Here's where that story falls apart


.
.
Clark Kent who didn't get with Herc until late 1974 as I pointed out before, recalls how and when he intoduced the concept of playing double copies to Herc as opposed to spinning two separate records that didn't match in tempos/musically via the "Merry-Go-Round"

Clark Kent: "anyone who was there knew herc only had one copy of apache and he used to mix it with scorpio...that was ok and it worked out for the 'Merry-Go-Round' but I thought it would be better if he had another copy of Apache. We were at the Hevalo (a club) and I gave Herc a/the second copy of Apache. Herc puts on Apache, everyone is anticipating him fading into Scorpio and then all of a sudden, everybody hears Apache come back again, and then everybody went nuts"









.
.



Lets see what the early participants have to say


pioneering Bboy, Trxie's



thoughts on Herc looping breaks/playing segments





Castles In The Sky: INTERVIEW WITH THE ORIGINAL B-BOY TRIXIE


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.
Niqqa Twins



their thoughts



Castles In The Sky



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.
.

Ced Gee (west bronx) of ultramagnetic, witnessed early herc jams says it's a misconception that Herc was rocking with 2 turntables and looping in the early days. He makes it very clear that Herc was just playing the whole song on 1 turntable.





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.
.


What Herc and the 1973 origin myth is trying to keep under wraps is that while Herc agrees he first started looping/double copies at the Hevelo as does Clark Kent, Herc didn't start djing there until 1975/1976!







Interview: DJ Kool Herc

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In the book: The Record Players - The Story of Dance Music Told By History's Greatest DJ


Herc says he started playing breaks in 1974

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.
.

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.but if you listen to the original interview Herc clearly admits that he started looping (attempting) in 1975 or 1976 which lines up with the Clark Kent story about giving Herc a copy of Apache for his birthday at the Hevalo so he could have 2 copies




Perfect Sound Forever: Kool Herc's historic moment, detailed

the website is--->Articles, interviews and reviews from Frank Broughton: Rock's Backpages.

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Pete Dj Jones was from Brooklyn and he was looping breaks, where do think Flash learned it from?


Remember I told you disco djs were already looping breaks by having 2 copies of the same record?



Herc didn't know how to do this but Flash learned it and brought in via Pete DJ Jones

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In fact, Flash and Kurtis Blow both say Pete Dj Jones was the first person they saw rocking 2 copies of the same record on 2 turtables to loop breaks in 1972!

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Final point: Kool D flat out says Pete Dj Jones was looping breaks way before Herc!!

I owe you like 4 reps, but the system won't let me. CASE CLOSED.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I agree here. The repetition of the break is in essence what made Hip Hop. This is unique to Hip Hop.

Spoiler

Looping was only necessary for songs with short break downs in them. No one would ever loop a song like



because the energy never leaves. You might loop this break though because of the way everything drops out and then hits again

 

[IllmaticDelta]

These interviews / conversations by Yanadameen were lit. I miss those.

Going by what DST said Herc had the sound-system to make it work and this was an important development.

Herc had the best system in the West Bronx

Repost from, another thread on the equipment:

I’m not sure if you already covered it in the op

but a section on just Sound SYSTEMs would be dope

@IllmaticDelta

I haven't see any real in depth descriptions of what the Bronx "hiphop" dj's had. You usually get general descriptions based on power of the system. From what I've seen, the top Bronx sound systems belonged to Herc (West Bronx), Disco King Mario (south east bronx), Kool Dee (South east Bronx) and Dj Breakout & Baron (North Bronx). Most descriptions of Baambattas, Caz and Flash describe their sh1t as subpar and pieced together. Here are some quotes:

Raheim from the Furious Five

The little bros were on when I walked into the party , Angel Dust permeated the air ; the walls were sweating because the place was jammed packed. The Little Bros set up was Peavey columns , and it seemed like they were rocking the joint....everybody was enjoying the music that they were playing . Sha Rock & KK were on the stage standing around , and Breakout got on the tables. His sound system was massive. I had never seen a sound system like this before , and the only ones equal at the time were Infinity Machine from Queens , Disco Twins also from Queens , Kool Herc and Disco King Mario. I remember Breakouts tweeters were on two ropes spanning the width of the room, held up by 2 horns on tripods on either side of the room . Breakout was listening to the headphones cueing up a record...he picked up the mic and said "Little Bros - the highs in your eyes" he turned up the music and all you heard were the tweeters . The volume of those alone interfered with the Little Bros system. Then Breakout said "feel the horns" and it sounded like a 30 piece marching band was in the spot. After that he said "feel the bass" and then it was over ...then when Baron got on he handed me a mic and I said some stuff , and they didn't want me to put the mic down. From that night on I was down.

RAHIEM INTERVIEW With JayQuan

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Sha Rock

Q - At one point it was about the crews sound system also right?



A - To be honest the Funky 4 and Brothers Disco had the best system. It was the loudest and clearest. At first Mario had a good system , and we learned from him. We invested our money in a good system. We had the clearest most crisp system , that we called Sasquash. We had the tin barrel garbage cans , and made speakers out of them , and we had tweeters and all that. You didn’t hear static or muffling – none of that. We had the best system – no ifs ands or buts about it. Did someone else say that they had the best?



(interviewer) No. everyone that I ever talked to said that you had the best. That’s undisputed.

Luminary Icon Sha Rock By JayQuan

Baam getting power from Mario

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Herc drowning out Smokey in the West Bronx

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according to some Herc just copied what he saw in Bronxdale and ended up gettiing a similar set up as Kool D

Spoiler

Dj Kool D was a professional club DJ in brooklyn and traveled around with Pete Dj Jones (brooklynite who traveled to the bronx) and Grandmaster Flowers (also a brooklynite) before he moved to the Bronx

Spoiler

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From what I gathered mobile jocks, soundsystems and disco clubs weren't really a thing in the Bronx like they were in Queens, Brooklyn and Harlem.

Spoiler

talking about the bronx right here:

" they had to piece together sh1t...they didn't even have real sound systems compared to Queens"

Spoiler

and

the bronx guys openly admit to the queens guys having the soundsystem game on smash lol

 

[Ish Gibor]

Looping was only necessary for songs with short break downs in them. No one would ever loop a song like



because the energy never leaves. You might loop this break though because of the way everything drops out and then hits again

Yeah, but those songs didn’t have a necessary break like 99% the songs? Agreed? Those where straight drum beats favored by B Boys.

“Eventually, by employing two turntables and two copies of a record, Herc developed what he called the “Merry-Go-Round” technique. Dropping the needle back to the beginning of the break on one record just as the other was about to end, and repeating the process ad infinitum, Herc could keep a break — and a crowd of b-boys — breaking for as long as that particular section would work. Though the hip-hop story has enshrined Herc as the first to isolate and repeat breakbeats in this way, it should be noted that Herc’s technical proficiency was never exactly heralded, and so his focus on and liberation of the break should perhaps be understood more as an aesthetic than a technical achievement”

Kool Herc: A Biographical Essay – Wayne & Wax

Enjoy,

AGFA - DJ Kool Herc Tribute (Merry Go Round Mini Mix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWfQMMIp8NM A tribute to the legendary DJ Kool Herc, whom invented the Merry go Round technique, brought Jamican sound system culture to America and birthed a sound we

soundcloud.app.goo.gl

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Yeah, but those songs didn’t have a necessary break like 99% the songs? Agreed? Those where straight drum beats favored by B Boys.

There were alot of Funk/Disco songs that bboys rocked to that didn't need to be looped. You could play the whole song and have people going off











The preponderance of looped breaks was more related to the rise of mc's. This is exactly why Herc never had the DJ skills (his scene had no mc's; it focused on bboys) to do the quick mix and had people like The Imperial JC doing all the turntablist tricks

DJ Imperial JayCee | NAMM.org

DJ Imperial JayCee first played records in the parks back in 1974. The world of Disco had created a career for DJ Kool Herc, a hero in JayCee's Bronx neighborhood, which inspired him to take out records in the local park to entertain people. In 1977, he officially joined Herc's crew of DJs just...

www.namm.org

 

[Ish Gibor]

There were alot of Funk/Disco songs that bboys rocked to that didn't need to be looped. You could play the whole song and have people going off











The preponderance of looped breaks was more related to the rise of mc's. This is exactly why Herc never had the DJ skills (his scene had no mc's; it focused on bboys) to do the quick mix and had people like The Imperial JC doing all the turntablist tricks

DJ Imperial JayCee | NAMM.org

DJ Imperial JayCee first played records in the parks back in 1974. The world of Disco had created a career for DJ Kool Herc, a hero in JayCee's Bronx neighborhood, which inspired him to take out records in the local park to entertain people. In 1977, he officially joined Herc's crew of DJs just...

www.namm.org

Besides for the few songs we know and consider Hip Hop anthems, I'd like to know what other songs was favored by the early B Boys. This way we get a better understanding how things have evolved.

The songs we have "reviewed" thus far all popular and we known them, these can be heard in old video recordings (documentaries).

I will ask Michael Wayne this question, so he can interview some 1st devision Black Spades.





I'm not sure if this playlist is guess work, or the actual records.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Herc had the best system in the West Bronx

Repost from, another thread on the equipment:





I haven't see any real in depth descriptions of what the Bronx "hiphop" dj's had. You usually get general descriptions based on power of the system. From what I've seen, the top Bronx sound systems belonged to Herc (West Bronx), Disco King Mario (south east bronx), Kool Dee (South east Bronx) and Dj Breakout & Baron (North Bronx). Most descriptions of Baambattas, Caz and Flash describe their sh1t as subpar and pieced together. Here are some quotes:

Raheim from the Furious Five



RAHIEM INTERVIEW With JayQuan

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Sha Rock



Luminary Icon Sha Rock By JayQuan

Baam getting power from Mario

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Herc drowning out Smokey in the West Bronx

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according to some Herc just copied what he saw in Bronxdale and ended up gettiing a similar set up as Kool D

Spoiler

Dj Kool D was a professional club DJ in brooklyn and traveled around with Pete Dj Jones (brooklynite who traveled to the bronx) and Grandmaster Flowers (also a brooklynite) before he moved to the Bronx

Spoiler

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From what I gathered mobile jocks, soundsystems and disco clubs weren't really a thing in the Bronx like they were in Queens, Brooklyn and Harlem.

Spoiler

talking about the bronx right here:

" they had to piece together sh1t...they didn't even have real sound systems compared to Queens"

Spoiler

and

the bronx guys openly admit to the queens guys having the soundsystem game on smash lol

would rep

but i gotta rep 25 other people first,to do so

edit-mods change that shyt

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Besides for the few songs we know and consider Hip Hop anthems, I'd like to know what other songs was favored by the early B Boys. This way we get a better understanding how things have evolved.

The songs we have "reviewed" thus far all popular and we known them, these can be heard in old video recordings (documentaries).

Some of the songs Herc played:

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...if you do the knowledge on those songs, you'll see that very few are the breaks that rappers would rap to. These are mainly bboy breaks.

tracks like these are mainly for mc's; which, herc did not play








^^these are the kind of breaks that needed constant looping

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Allegedly Coke La Rock is Hip Hop's first MC.

Spoiler

A short interview:





A long interview:

He's the first Mc in the Herc scene but he didn't rap (syncopated to the beat). He basically did freelanced shout outs/slick talk on the mic but no actual flowing rhymes. Herc talking about what Coke was doing/saying on the mic




also, take note of the fact that Herc doesn't claim that he himself was rapping, he said COKE LA ROCK was the one talking on the mic and he used to feed him (Herc) things to say. This is a big reason why the "rapping came from jamaican toasting" narrative didn't/doesn't hold up considering Coka La Rock isn't Jamaican but Southern Afram.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

How can it be JB was the father of this subculture, if he wasn't anywhere near these B Boys? His influences in undeniable.

“And James Brown is my inspiration with the music. I’m a spin-off of James Brown. Hip hop is a spin-off of James Brown. James Brown don’t know that but as I go out to you right now James I want to do a tribute to you."

Guess we can't argue what Herc feels and thinks if he gives JB all the credit. I suspect the syncopated beats is what Herc tried to emulate?

Spoiler

James Brown is the clear sonic backbone of HipHop












and he did influence the early bboys