Tariq & Akademiks Arguing Over Origins of Hip Hop

[Ish Gibor]

True First Documentary: Disco King Mario

True First Documentary: Disco King Mario (2019) - IMDb

True First Documentary: Disco King Mario (2019) Reference View

www.imdb.com

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

sir you childish.....

it is shameful to be a blk man and not know any blk immigrants
yet talk shyt about them

fukk is wrong with you?

acting like a fukkin wite racists

set?
heck is wrong with you?

You trolling ain’t working. I have black immigrants in my family and travel this world every month. I know plenty. They are not the authority on who is who. This man claimed his own dna and you want to ask random nikkas if he right…

You sound silly.

 

[Uncouth Savage]

You trolling ain’t working. I have black immigrants in my family and travel this world every month. I know plenty. They are not the authority on who is who. This man claimed his own dna and you want to ask random nikkas if he right…

You sound silly.

nobody is not authority on anything
what matters is polling and to an extent personal experience

and I am telling you Akademiks who lived in Jersey who into music
was NEVER into the spots, at the parties, in the garrison, run roun a fukk gal, hustle etc

the stereotypical things some of us are known are
and everything from the parties to the culture were minutes away from where he lived

he chose to live, speak, and do everything as a blk american
the man cannot even speak patois

point being sir
if you go ask a jamaican "would you consider akademiks a yaadman"
they would say NO
yes he might have been born there

yet he does not share the culture in anyway
his culture is "yankee" culture
and to a further extent he has a decent college educated drunken frat suburban mentality
so he would not be in the bronx or brooklyn at the parties

I am unsure how else to make that clear to you

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

nobody is not authority on anything
what matters is polling and to an extent personal experience

and I am telling you Akademiks who lived in Jersey who into music
was NEVER into the spots, at the parties, in the garrison, run roun a fukk gal, hustle etc

the stereotypical things some of us are known are
and everything from the parties to the culture were minutes away from where he lived

he chose to live, speak, and do everything as a blk american
the man cannot even speak patois

point being sir
if you go ask a jamaican "would you consider akademiks a yaadman"
they would say NO
yes he might have been born there

yet he does not share the culture in anyway
his culture is "yankee" culture
and to a further extent he has a decent college educated drunken frat suburban mentality
so he would not be in the bronx or brooklyn at the parties

I am unsure how else to make that clear to you

Lets start over cause maybe that's where we disconnecting here... You said:


these guys like Tariq are looking for a fight
and nobody is fighting with them
herc is blk american
akademiks is blk american



I said that was stupid because Ak is taking the side of the jamaicans in the fight you are claiming nobody is trying to have. Him, and many like him, are taking up the Jamaican flag and saying "WE invented hip-hop" I don't give a damn if they grew up in the White House, in 2022, they are claiming Jamaican and saying THEIR people invented it. There was no "you know american black culture..." Nah it was "Don't take that from US, you know WE invented it"

That's definitely a fight that him, and other people not born in this country, have started to do in the past year or two.. And it's complete bullshyt. He's clearly choosing which culture to claim and back in this fight.. So to get mad that we don't want to claim the nikka either is preposterous

 

[Ish Gibor]

Kool Herc - Jamaican
Doug E Fresh - Barbados
Grandmaster Flowers - Jamaica
Kings Charles (Jamaica)
Grandmaster Flash (Barbados)
Kid Creole - Jamaica
Afrika Bambatta and the Zulu Nation - Jamaica
Kurtis Blow - Barbados
DJ Disco Wiz -(started the Force Team with Grandmaster Caz)
Melle Mele (Barbados)
Rock Steady Crew

then later on you got the KRS One, Slick Rick, Biggie, Grand Puba's etc of the world

Kangol Kid from UTFO was Haitian.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/obituaries/2021/12/21/kangol-kid-utfo-rapper-dead/

The Real Roxanne PR

Heavy D was Jamaican, as was Stezo...

You wrote that Kid Creole is from Jamaica, while Melle Mel is from (Barbados). According to this source they are biological brothers.

"Glover's exposure to hip hop came through parties known as “jams” in New York City. He and his older brother, Nathaniel “Nate” Glover, were originally break dancers (Nate would become Kidd Creole of the Furious Five)."

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

oxfordaasc.com

 

[BuckFilly]

Tethers be babbling. Next I’ll hear Jamaicans created drill

 

[Ish Gibor]

Tethers be babbling. Next I’ll hear Jamaicans created drill

This is the dumbest contribution thus far.

 

[CashmereThoughts]

Hip Hop started in Brooklyn with an ADOS breh named DJ Flowers

Grandmaster flowers is the Model for the
Hip Hip DJ. So yes Brooklyn had a pivotal contribution to Hip Hop Culture.

The convergence of all the elements happened in the Bronx. The first MC being coke la rock ADOS with roots in NC

 

[kingofnyc]

The Disco vs HipHop divide he's talking about is not a musical one but one based on perceptions influenced by age. If the music was played in a club setting with people dressed up, younger people (that would go on to be indentified as hiphop) perceived this as "Disco" while the mobile djs in the parks playing the same music was viewed as "HipHop". For example, this is what Flowers was playing and doing:





RAPAMANIA: GRANDMASTER FLOWERS AND THE MOBILE DJ MOVEMENT by Steven Stancell



Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com

and






Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com



everything he did is what we now associate with hiphop

Herc himself credited Mario, and this is a BX cat, he's clearly biased. Again, he could still contribute. Herc credited him for nothing?

Cholly …. clearly states them nikkaz hated hip hop = it’s really no argument to be made

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Cholly …. clearly states them nikkaz hated hip hop = it’s really no argument to be made

And I just explained why: Age perception!

Those guys didn't hate HipHop from a musical POV because prior to 1979, HipHop was purely nothing more than Funk/Disco songs with rhyming over it and not original HipHop compositions.

2) Syncopated rhyming over these same beats aka Rapping. If rapping hadn't come along, there would be no such thing as rap/hiphop music being a sound unto itself because there would have been nothing to distinguish it from its root.

Read below:

and

Spoiler

Touches on the relation of HipHop to Disco and how Disco was IN FACT embraced by the crowd that would later become HipHop

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Now, the question is, who caused the "rhyming over disco/funk songs" that would give birth to rap music? The answer is Dj Hollywood!!





As I've already pointed out, the Herc scene had NO RAPPERS!!














even Sal Alabatello noticed this when he hired Herc to play at the Fever

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......his scene was focused on playing music for the bboys but in the so-called "Disco dj" world of the black overground mobile jocks (not the gays world of Larry Levan and Frankie Knuckles) of Pete Dj Jones, Dj Hollywood, Grandmaster Flowers and Eddie Cheeba, they had dudes rapping on the mic as early as 1970 with Hollywood perfecting/creating the modern style by 1972.

Herc little circle of bboys was already dying by 1975/1976 because cats was already turning to the mic/listening to rhyming lyrics (something Herc's crowd didn't specialize in) after seeing Hollywood. Dj Jazzy Jay of Zulu Nation talks about it here:

^^(the part about harlemites adopting bronx rap style is wrong; it's actually the reverse: see --> "DJ Hollywood and his crowd were the first rapping to the beat, not Herc's crowd" - Melle Mel


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Flash also talks about the influence of Hollywood:

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Hollywood, Chheba and Luv Bug sum it all up in this clip

"hiphop would have died in the 70s if it wasn't for the rapper"




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What those guys hated was the young teenagers doing bboy moves in the middle of the club, since they were shoe places.

Hollywood speaks on it here

 

[Uncouth Savage]

Lets start over cause maybe that's where we disconnecting here... You said:


these guys like Tariq are looking for a fight
and nobody is fighting with them
herc is blk american
akademiks is blk american



I said that was stupid because Ak is taking the side of the jamaicans in the fight you are claiming nobody is trying to have. Him, and many like him, are taking up the Jamaican flag and saying "WE invented hip-hop" I don't give a damn if they grew up in the White House, in 2022, they are claiming Jamaican and saying THEIR people invented it. There was no "you know american black culture..." Nah it was "Don't take that from US, you know WE invented it"

That's definitely a fight that him, and other people not born in this country, have started to do in the past year or two.. And it's complete bullshyt. He's clearly choosing which culture to claim and back in this fight.. So to get mad that we don't want to claim the nikka either is preposterous

your problem like most who think like you

is that you do not have any LIFE EXPERIENCE with those you talking about
I have said that repeatedly

tariq and youtube taught you about Africans and Caribbean people

you for whatever reason NEED conflict and division
it is a hunger

And frankly I would not be surprised if some of yall are undercover racist wites

you were convinced in your mind that Africans and Caribbean are against you
trying to steal your culture
be you
your enemy

and no matter how much it is said "I love you....I am your brother"
you and those who think like you care nothing about that

even going so far to imagine and make up shyt

again sir
go the fukk outside
travel to ny or florida where caribbean people are
leave that damn maga hell you in and learn about blk people from other places

shyt is fukking annoying and pityful

 

[Uncouth Savage]

Tethers be babbling. Next I’ll hear Jamaicans created drill

The internet guys yall follow have ruined a whole generation of young men with bullshyt thinking

thinking debate is dissing and talking shyt like a big poosy dutty gal
respect to illmaticdelta and all who about reasoning

 

[IllmaticDelta]

From what I have heard Mario's family migrated from the South to New York. Some others have claimed he was Afro-Purto Rican. Perhaps due to his name, Mario?

Mario was Afram from North Carolina. His older brother

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

your problem like most who think like you

is that you do not have any LIFE EXPERIENCE with those you talking about
I have said that repeatedly

tariq and youtube taught you about Africans and Caribbean people

you for whatever reason NEED conflict and division
it is a hunger

And frankly I would not be surprised if some of yall are undercover racist wites

you were convinced in your mind that Africans and Caribbean are against you
trying to steal your culture
be you
your enemy

and no matter how much it is said "I love you....I am your brother"
you and those who think like you care nothing about that

even going so far to imagine and make up shyt

again sir
go the fukk outside
travel to ny or florida where caribbean people are
leave that damn maga hell you in and learn about blk people from other places

shyt is fukking annoying and pityful

And I told you before I have them in my family and been to over 40 countries so you wrong. You been wrong the entire time. And you think you’re right for absolutely no reasons except “that’s what the Caribbean’s think”

Ok well the Americans don’t want somebody coming here stealing our culture and denying our influence on him. If you been here 35 years and still talking bout “don’t take it from US” then you also agree. If Ak said exactly what you said, I’d be with you. But he didn’t. He said the opposite. He said fukk what Jim Brown talking bout and them nikkas with him, IM JAMAICAN

So I’ll go back to what I said. Argue with Ak about what he chooses to claim. I’m just going to believe him

Let’s take FL and NY. Dude moves at 3 from Brooklyn to Florida. People in Florida like man you a Florida nikka now. But dude is adamant. Nah I’m a New Yorker and matter of fact, y’all bit bass music from us.

You think Florida nikkas gonna be like “nah fam you with us now”. Nah they gonna be like “oh aight. fukk you then New York nikka”

 

[Ish Gibor]

The Black Dot from Urban X elaborates….