Tariq & Akademiks Arguing Over Origins of Hip Hop

[IllmaticDelta]

The Disco vs HipHop divide he's talking about is not a musical one but one based on perceptions influenced by age. If the music was played in a club setting with people dressed up, younger people (that would go on to be indentified as hiphop) perceived this as "Disco" while the mobile djs in the parks playing the same music was viewed as "HipHop". For example, this is what Flowers was playing and doing:

Some of the records that Flowers was known for playing include “Space Age” by the Jimmy Castor Bunch, “Sunnin’ And Funnin’ by MFSB, “Somebody’s Gotta Go” by Mike and Bill. “Touch and Go” by Ecstasy, Passion and Pain, “Changes” by Vernon Burch and “Messin’ With My Mind” by Labelle. Another favorite of his was the rock group Babe Ruth’s “The Mexican” (which would later become a hip hop staple as a breakbeat record and sample). He would mix that with James Brown material, and he was also known to on occasion, use three turntables simultaneously. (He would combine Chic’s “Good Times,” MFSB’s “Love Is The Message,” and Vaughan Mason and Crew’s “Bounce Skate Roll Bounce” for example.)

RAPAMANIA: GRANDMASTER FLOWERS AND THE MOBILE DJ MOVEMENT by Steven Stancell

Troy- I am surprised to hear that. O.K. I am going to throw out some names give me some feedback on them any way you like or as long as you like. First up Grand Master Flowers. Now what I have on Flowers is he darkened the labels on his records. Flowers also made you expand your music after you heard him play James Brown and Babe Ruth together.

Plummer- Oh yeah I thought that was cool. Flowers was different kind of mixer. You go into the gay clubs and they use to play a lot of hustle type dance music. They also played with the music with the highs and lows and mix with the sound effects and stuff. But they would not pull out the Funk, or they would not go into rock. Flowers was sort of like a Jimmy Hendrix he would do everything and you were always learning from him. But the thing about him is he played these games, he would darken his records and stuff. A lot of times we knew what it was and if we didn’t we would make it our business to find out. But it wasn’t a cut throat type of thing. He and I had a pretty good relationship, we didn’t ever sour our relationship. People would talk junk but we knew it was just that, junk. But you know between myself, Flowers, Maboya and Pete D.j. Jones you heard our names on the radio more than anyone else.

Troy- Alright tell me about that James Brown and Babe Ruth mix by Flowers.

Plummer- Yeah when Flowers played that I didn’t know who Babe Ruth and The Mexican jam was and so when I heard this high shrill voice and with this Spanish sort of sounding instruments in the back and I thought this was cool because it just blended so nicely and only Flowers would do something like that, at least at that time. Later on everybody else started doing stuff like that as well.

Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com

and

Plummer- Yes, see I wasn’t in it to make a lot of money, that wasn’t in my mind. Had I seriously thought about that I don’t know if I seriously would have gotten as far and as fast as I did. The reason why I bought up Sedley is because he sounded like Hank Spann on the radio, so he was rapping over the records and all of the sudden between Pete d.j. Jones and myself we had a guy to rap over our music and then Flowers too got an m.c or two. Like I said we copied off of each other and so we all just got better every quickly.

Then there was these guys called the City Steppers (Flame, Michael, Dungie and Doc) and Sedley knew these folks. These were the guys that would take the card board out there and they would start doing break dancing and stuff, this was 1973, 74 and 75 I guess. They would come with us and do all this fantastic stuff and it just seemed like it happened so quickly.

Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com



everything he did is what we now associate with hiphop

 

[Uncouth Savage]

In fact there was a white professor some years ago, who did claim that whites invented rap. And way back in the 80s there as a documentary on Hip Hop, with some German dudes claiming that it came from Germany. Of course it was laughed away and even other Germans called it out. A friend of mine had the tape, years ago.

I see the play....
much like with most other things....
instead of looking at wite supremacy the africans and caribbean people are blamed...
smh

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

Revenge of the nerd ass nikka is who build the community and society. When Hip Hop was in it's highest element education was praised. The last pilair of Hip Hop is knowledge, but some put it first, because it enables to do all other things.

Btw, what do you think all these early Hip Hop producers was working with all that equipment, the EMU, SP12, SP 1200, Akai MPC60, MPC3000? Where they not nerdy? The best lyricist had the nerdiest raps. My Philosophy by KRS BPD. East Back by Ultra Magnetic MC's etc… EPMD two guys about to become dentists. Chuck D was in college.

Nerd not as in smart

Nerd as in ostracized and not paid attention to

But you knew that and that's why you got up in your feelings

fukk off

 

[Ish Gibor]

Flowers wasn't a Disco Dj in the way people think of Studio 54, he was part of the overground disco that gave way to hiphop. Not only he did have the first rapping mc: KC The Prince of Soul




and


Pete Dj Jones: "One of the first rapping dj's (KC The Prince Of Soul), I stole him from Flowers"







“That Special Beat:” An Interview with One of Hip-Hop’s Founders, Pete DJ Jones




A Toast to Grandmaster Flash: Hip-hop Pioneer, Turntable Wizard and Superhero DJ



; people who were there, said he had a crew of early stage bboys










now, connect the dots....

Brooklyn Music: BrooklynBio: The Mystery of Grandmaster Flowers

Allegedly Coke La Rock is Hip Hop's first MC.

A short interview:





A long interview:

 

[Ish Gibor]

Nerd not as in smart

Nerd as in ostracized and not paid attention to

Ok, good you demystified it.

But you knew that and that's why you got up in your feelings

Yes, because it sounded off. Nerds are usually considered smart and he happens to have an academic background.

fukk off

I will not. lol smh

 

[Ish Gibor]

I see the play....
much like with most other things....
instead of looking at wite supremacy the africans and caribbean people are blamed...
smh

It's something deeply psychological. The common argument is, "they (the white supremacists) will destroy our communities again, like the did with Tulsa, Rosewood etc…". So you are on something here. What you said makes a lot of sense.

 

[Ish Gibor]

IDK about.....while the claim is mainly made by Jamaican-Americans, I have seen these same claims made by writers on the jamaican-gleaner news website and even some older dancehall acts, that are native to the island

It's not complicated. Ask them to show the early Hip Hop flyers from the 70s and even early 80s, with all these "Jamaican-Americans". If these exists that is.

 

[Uncouth Savage]

It's something deeply psychological. The common argument is, "they (the white supremacists) will destroy our communities again, like the did with Tulsa, Rosewood etc…". So you are on something here. What you said makes a lot of sense.

No matter how much it is said "I am your brother....I love you...."
what is returned is

"you hate us.....you wanna be us.....you worst than maga racists they my brothers"
it is very very strange....

thankfully it is only a minority of folks with that mindset...

 

[Problematic Pat]

I thought ADOS/FBA was about securing reparations??
How does an argument about who started Hip Hop an artform that is OWNED and CONTROLLED by non Blacks helping in this matter at all?? Tariq only engages in things that will pit African Americans against Black immigrants.
When does this move to more serious work that can result in actual tangibles?? Answer is that it doesn't. Jason Black, Tariq and these other "new Black media" clowns are only interested in hearing their own voices and verbally degrading the same people who they claim they represent. These clowns never have the same level of smoke they do for there own group for the cacs who they claim are Black peoples biggest enemies.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

I thought ADOS/FBA was about securing reparations??
How does an argument about who started Hip Hop an artform that is OWNED and CONTROLLED by non Blacks helping in this matter at all?? Tariq only engages in things that will pit African Americans against Black immigrants.
When does this move to more serious work that can result in actual tangibles?? Answer is that it doesn't. Jason Black, Tariq and these other "new Black media" clowns are only interested in hearing their own voices and verbally degrading the same people who they claim they represent. These clowns never have the same level of smoke they do for there own group for the cacs who they claim are Black peoples biggest enemies.

This is facts

 

[CodeKansas]

I thought ADOS/FBA was about securing reparations??
How does an argument about who started Hip Hop an artform that is OWNED and CONTROLLED by non Blacks helping in this matter at all?? Tariq only engages in things that will pit African Americans against Black immigrants.
When does this move to more serious work that can result in actual tangibles?? Answer is that it doesn't. Jason Black, Tariq and these other "new Black media" clowns are only interested in hearing their own voices and verbally degrading the same people who they claim they represent. These clowns never have the same level of smoke they do for there own group for the cacs who they claim are Black peoples biggest enemies.

 

[Jim Cornette]

Ak fat as fukk

 

[Problematic Pat]

Ak fat as fukk

He been good.

 

[parallax]

I thought ADOS/FBA was about securing reparations??
How does an argument about who started Hip Hop an artform that is OWNED and CONTROLLED by non Blacks helping in this matter at all?? Tariq only engages in things that will pit African Americans against Black immigrants.
When does this move to more serious work that can result in actual tangibles?? Answer is that it doesn't. Jason Black, Tariq and these other "new Black media" clowns are only interested in hearing their own voices and verbally degrading the same people who they claim they represent. These clowns never have the same level of smoke they do for there own group for the cacs who they claim are Black peoples biggest enemies.

people are lying, but correcting them is being divisive ? busta running around saying we get out culture from the carribean isnt being divisive? that fat cornball talking down on us isnt divisive? i hate that i even have to defend tariq, but cats talk slick about us all the time and its just accepted, but tariq correcting the matter is where it goes too far?

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

Ak fat as fukk