Styles P Says That Jay-Z Never Reached The Level Of Lyricism Of The Notorious B.I.G.

[boogers]

Jay Z on A Written Testimony > Big's career

smh and i liked your posts before this!

i hope youre trolling man

i fw jay but come on man.

if BIG lived jay would be ma$e tier at best. he filled the void.

BIG was four years younger than Jay was when he died.

 

[Tres Leches]

why is Nas in this convo of JAY vs BIG

ask jay z he the one who said " who the best biggie jay z or nas ? "

 

[FunkDoc1112]

I know you personally weren't knocking Jay, but that's the narrative that's been around the longest when people say "What if Biggie and Pac never died?". I never see anybody talk about the industry wide effects. Just "Jay wouldn't be Jay". I'd be over here thinking about the status of their respective labels and coasts, hip hop music in general, really. I also think when people do the "If they didn't die" thing, ai never see people say they could be catalysts for better music and building up new or peer rappers.

I still feel like Jay would've still been Jay anyway. He was never THE top guy during his run to begin with, even in his own city most of the time. In the shadow of DMX he got a big hit off the Rush Hour soundtrack that finally broke him through...in fact I would argue that Jay would've popped SOONER had Biggie still been around and maybe Ma$e loses a little shine. Hes less of a priority for Bad Boy with Biggie still around while Jay has the Def Jam machine that was getting everybody and their grandma plaques in the late 90s AND is Biggie's mans

Biggie still being a live probably hurts Pun too. Pun and X both benefitted from there being a void of the two nikkas with a similar image

 

[vino]

Jay was a better rapper than Big. Jay had the better verse on every song they did together.

 

[pointproven214]

I’m not gonna count years where Big was no longer living and Jay was still rapping. Speaking PURELY on 96/97 when they were both active:

Jay was more lyrical than Biggie in the sense of multisyllable rhymes, vocabulary, and advanced metaphors.
Biggie was way more dependent on basic similes and was not weaving double entendres together like Jay was doing on Reasonable Doubt.

Big was more deft with the flow pockets and a better storyteller. Also had a better voice/mic presence. If you want to argue he was the better natural RAPPER, I’ll accept it. But LYRICALLY…Jay was superior.

Yeah I agree jay z is more skilled but not for the reasons u listed biggie had better rhyme schemes and better punchlines but Jay z was more clever with metaphors and wordplay

 

[Shadow King]

His reasoning is backwards even if I leaned towards agreeing with him. You're giving him credit for the potential he didn't reach and may have never reached.

 

[the elastic]

smh and i liked your posts before this!

i hope youre trolling man

i fw jay but come on man.

if BIG lived jay would be ma$e tier at best. he filled the void.

BIG was four years younger than Jay was when he died.

I'm big on the content of lyrics. BIG's content was hella degenerate and vain. Jay Z isn't the most militant, but he's business smart and drops wisdom in almost every song.

What he did with 4:44 and A Written Testimony is something Big never did and we will never know if he would ever make such a pivot.

It's easy as shyt to make witty lines about hoes, selling drugs and killing other Black men. Not so easy to make hard bars about buying up the block and how you can't tell your Black mom-in-law that Jesus isn't white.

I understand everyone doesn't seek uplifting words or constructive attitudes from their music tho, so I respect other folks' taste....or at least pretend to

 

[FunkDoc1112]

I still feel like Jay would've still been Jay anyway. He was never THE top guy during his run to begin with, even in his own city most of the time. In the shadow of DMX he got a big hit off the Rush Hour soundtrack that finally broke him through...in fact I would argue that Jay would've popped SOONER had Biggie still been around and maybe Ma$e loses a little shine. Hes less of a priority for Bad Boy with Biggie still around while Jay has the Def Jam machine that was getting everybody and their grandma plaques in the late 90s AND is Biggie's mans

Biggie still being a live probably hurts Pun too. Pun and X both benefitted from there being a void of the two nikkas with a similar image

To add to this, my other hot take is way more changes with Pac still alive than Biggie. Pacs death set off a chain of events that killed off the West Coast commercially for a few years and left a void for the south.

On the other hand, Biggie kinda let Puff steer his direction commercially and a lot of the shifts in the rap game in the late 90s were directly and/or indirectly facilitated by Puff. Missy Elliot and Timbaland changed the sound of R&B (and that was happening when Pac and Big were still alive) and Puffy gave them their start in the game before he even met Biggie, even. LaFace played a big part in putting the south on and again, lot of Puff affiliation

 

[Piff Perkins]

I'm confused with what ur saying. This aint no knock against Jay. But it's facts the entire game changed after Pac and Biggie's deaths there's literally no disputing it.

While I agree and can imagine scenarios where things got very different/interesting (45 King gives Hard Knock Life to Biggie if he was alive, straight up) I wonder if we oversell this. If Biggie had lived he would have spent months touring and then would likely start trying to get off Bad Boy. Him being alive wouldn't have stopped Diddy going overboard with the jiggy shyt either, so DMX still likely drops Get At Me Dog. Maybe a less successful (minus Hard Knock Life) Jay takes shots at Biggie alongside Nas.

And none of that stops Dre from signing Eminem in 1999 or DMX doing what he did that year. I think a lot of shyt would have been the same, and if Biggie got off Bad Boy he would lose popularity IMO. Diddy's ear for commercial shyt is the main reason Big became what he became. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe Biggie drops Hard Knock Life (or whatever his iteration would be) and keeps going. But I can def imagine a scenario where he cools off.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

While I agree and can imagine scenarios where things got very different/interesting (45 King gives Hard Knock Life to Biggie if he was alive, straight up) I wonder if we oversell this. If Biggie had lived he would have spent months touring and then would likely start trying to get off Bad Boy. Him being alive wouldn't have stopped Diddy going overboard with the jiggy shyt either, so DMX still likely drops Get At Me Dog. Maybe a less successful (minus Hard Knock Life) Jay takes shots at Biggie alongside Nas.

And none of that stops Dre from signing Eminem in 1999 or DMX doing what he did that year. I think a lot of shyt would have been the same, and if Biggie got off Bad Boy he would lose popularity IMO. Diddy's ear for commercial shyt is the main reason Big became what he became. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe Biggie drops Hard Knock Life (or whatever his iteration would be) and keeps going. But I can def imagine a scenario where he cools off.

If Biggie had things his way he would've been making street shyt,yeah. Biggies while direction was orchestrated by Puff. Left to his own devices he's a more radio friendly Big Pun. 95% hardcore shyt and a couple commercial hits

 

[spliz]

While I agree and can imagine scenarios where things got very different/interesting (45 King gives Hard Knock Life to Biggie if he was alive, straight up) I wonder if we oversell this. If Biggie had lived he would have spent months touring and then would likely start trying to get off Bad Boy. Him being alive wouldn't have stopped Diddy going overboard with the jiggy shyt either, so DMX still likely drops Get At Me Dog. Maybe a less successful (minus Hard Knock Life) Jay takes shots at Biggie alongside Nas.

And none of that stops Dre from signing Eminem in 1999 or DMX doing what he did that year. I think a lot of shyt would have been the same, and if Biggie got off Bad Boy he would lose popularity IMO. Diddy's ear for commercial shyt is the main reason Big became what he became. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe Biggie drops Hard Knock Life (or whatever his iteration would be) and keeps going. But I can def imagine a scenario where he cools off.

Puff and Mase being as huge as they were. Who knows? Then when u factor in DMX was trying to break thru for years before 98. But didn't get the appreciation until after Pac died and people needed a break from the Bad Boy shiny shyt. We had The Commision and who knows how that would've went. Death Row was basically done after Pac died. Man it's a whole bunch of shyt that would have shifted. Not saying for better or worse. But shyt would've changed. Lox first solo single was We'll Always Love Big Poppa.

 

[spliz]

If Biggie had things his way he would've been making street shyt,yeah. Biggies while direction was orchestrated by Puff. Left to his own devices he's a more radio friendly Big Pun. 95% hardcore shyt and a couple commercial hits

Exactly. Biggie's most iconic hit single is a song he didnt even agree with making.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Puff and Mase being as huge as they were. Who knows? Then when u factor in DMX was trying to break thru for years before 98. But didn't get the appreciation until after Pac died and people needed a break from the Bad Boy shiny shyt. We had The Commision and who knows how that would've went. Death Row was basically done after Pac died. Man it's a whole bunch of shyt that would have shifted. Not saying for better or worse. But shyt would've changed. Lox first solo single was We'll Always Love Big Poppa.

That's why I think Pac dying changed shyt WAY more than biggie did...shyt Pac dying is why Biggie died But Biggie was a more passive figure while Pac is as active as they come, and I think even if he escaped Vegas unscathed his demise was coming sooner rather than later anyway, be it jail (I think he loses his appeal, NYC judicial system wanted to make an example of that nikka come hell or high water) or murder. Pac's death seemed inevitable while Biggie's could've been avoided if he just never went to LA

 

[boogers]

I'm big on the content of lyrics. BIG's content was hella degenerate and vain. Jay Z isn't the most militant, but he's business smart and drops wisdom in almost every song.

What he did with 4:44 and A Written Testimony is something Big never did and we will never know if he would ever make such a pivot.

it just makes me sad to think of what couldve been. what if BIG started hanging out with Redman? BIG and Big Pun doing a "watch the toilet" album. Big and Busta. BIG pulling a 'Notorious Thugs' and going flipmode on the remix to Gimme Some More. if BIG lived he prolly coulda even made Eminem sound good on a track together, in the studio with Dre.

BIG died when he was 24 so its all speculation but i could imagine BIG at 50 putting together a grown man rap album, too. BIG could get seriously cerebral. but sadly were just bullshytting in this thread. BIG was one of a kind and he'll never be back.

sorry for the weird formatting. i wasnt sure how to respond to multiple points like that.

 

[TheNig]

Notorious Thugs >>>

nikkas Bleed>>>>

Close your eyes and listen to it. You can see everything that's happening.