Styles P Says That Jay-Z Never Reached The Level Of Lyricism Of The Notorious B.I.G.

[Pop123]

To me if u rhyming basic I don't care how clever your lines are but if u can be clever while rhyming complex and have a great flow then imo u one of the greats.

You have some examples of the rhyming basic with clever lines? You mean like having ill wordplay but not using multis?

Yeah, the latter is the total package, pause, you got it all. Some dudes have that though but got a wack voice, like my guy Lupe, lol. Jigga voice is kinda weak to me too, he said himself he didn’t like his voice

 

[pointproven214]

You have some examples of the rhyming basic with clever lines? You mean like having ill wordplay but not using multis?

Yeah, the latter is the total package, pause, you got it all. Some dudes have that though but got a wack voice, like my guy Lupe, lol

Ras kass comes to mind imo he writes dope metaphors wordplay and punchlines but not ill with the rhyme schemes like g rap pun or rakim imo. I think Ras kass overrated imo.

 

[Pop123]

Ras kass comes to mind he writes dope metaphors wordplay and punchlines but not ill with the rhyme schemes like g rap pun or rakim.

That’s an excellent example actually. I was thinking of him as soon as i thought about someone ill who doesn’t be playing with the patterns and shhit. I honestly never thought Ras was that crazy with the phors and wordplay and shhit, I just always thought he was madd smart…or informative is a better word, was one of my favorites as a shorty. He actually does do a little rhyme schemes here and there, I noticed it more on his more recent stuff. Canibus is another one…wasnt multi’d up but was saying fire shhit

 

[pointproven214]

By the way I'm glad people are talking about the technical aspects of the music in this thread instead of most of this bullshyt i see on this site.

 

[pointproven214]

There are only a few I would put over jigga and biggie isn't one of them imo

 

[Pop123]

Canibus in his prime was the total package imo definitely he had complex rhyme schemes metaphors wordplay punchlines and was technically sound in terms of flow too imo

Ehh, he wasn’t that heavy on the rhyme patterns to me, I was a Stan too, lol. He definitely got some joints where he played with the multis tho, like on the joint with Rakim, couple more. That Rakim joint had such a terrible beat but I still loved that shhit, lol, shhit sounded like a wack Nintendo war game beat…they both got off and was both multi heavy, specially Ra

 

[pointproven214]

That’s an excellent example actually. I was thinking of him as soon as i thought about someone ill who doesn’t be playing with the patterns and shhit. I honestly never thought Ras was that crazy with the phors and wordplay and shhit, I just always thought he was madd smart…or informative is a better word, was one of my favorites as a shorty. He actually does do a little rhyme schemes here and there, I noticed it more on his more recent stuff. Canibus is another one…wasnt multi’d up but was saying fire shhit

Disagree with that last statement Canibus in his prime was the total package imo definitely he had complex rhyme schemes metaphors wordplay punchlines and was technically sound in terms of flow too imo

 

[pointproven214]

Ehh, he wasn’t that heavy on the rhyme patterns to me, I was a Stan too, lol. He definitely got some joints where he played with the multis tho, like on the joint with Rakim, couple more. That Rakim joint had such a terrible beat but I still loved that shhit, lol, shhit sounded like a wack Nintendo war game beat…they both got off and was both multi heavy, specially Ra

Definitely Don't agree with that imo prime canibus which is 97-2000 had nothing but multisyllabic rhymes with non simple patterns dude would rhyme entire verses where something would rhyme with something.

 

[Mike Wins]

I agree with you and know exactly what you’re saying…but then you used a Big line of him doing slick talk with a double meaning as an example of him being different than the slick talk with a double meaning dudes, lol.

Multis has damn near run its course with me, , at this point it's almost a crutch to not actually say anything because you’re rhyming well. But the slick smart wordplay and shhit?? Nah, that gotta be in the toolkit heavy if you're nice, imho of course. Biggie's flow is what made him better than most, you can argue he had a better flow than Jigga and Nas, . And he was sick with the rhyming, it was just scattered more, it wasnt the basic 123 Jadakiss, Griselda, Fabolous, type shhit. Big one of them ones…its just silly when people rank him so high, imo, cause they took him so soon, he was only here to see one album drop

I don't consider the bird shyt line a double meaning, just a basic simile that is simple but potent. Double meanings, I'm thinking more about the Jackie Robinson bar that had Hov fans going crazy a while back.

Either way I ain't saying those kinds of bars, or rhyming multis, don't carry value. Just that there's more to lyricism than that. Sometimes it's the simplest bars that's the most effective.

Multis can be cool, when done well it can make the flow on the verse crazy. G Rap, Pun and AZ probably the best at it as far as how seamless and natural they make it sound. But then you got rappers that think they on some next shyt for rhyming two syllables and enunciate the hell out of it in every bar, that can be annoying.

 

[Cuban Pete]

All of these are great storytelling records but don't have that left field factor to it. Fetus is about not even being born yet. Rewind is literally telling a story backwards and coherently rhyming sentences backwards to illustrate the point.

Biggie gave you The Wire or Sopranos, strictly rooted in reality and so much so that you can't deny it. Nas could give you some Twilight Zone/X-Files shìt...built on realistic settings but with a key theme that's bizarre enough to be out of mind before it was delivered to you but plausible enough once you're dealing with it.

Whats crazy about the Nas joint is that Fetus-Undying Love-Amongst Kings are all related to each other... song about not being born, a dark romance that leads to a murder-suicide, and, and finally getting to heaven and seeing God face to face... crazy thematically, I think only DMX with the Damien series kept a coherent story like that across multiple tracks