Stockton/Malone played 18 seasons together and were eliminated in the 1st round 9 times

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No. And :russ: at using :russ: as a juxtaposition
Malone is ass for a star. He might be the worst star in NBA history. The game is so much better today and Malone is a NBA terrorist. Old Sabo is a NBA terrorist too but every verison of Malone is a terrorist. Stockton is legit. I'll always give John is props. Malone and JC. Two players I just don't like.
 

murksiderock

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McHale being punished for the players he had around him and their team’s success is what you are doing.

In the past 40 years, Shaq and McHale are the only players to average over 25 ppg and shoot over 60% in the post.

If McHale had his own squad, his numbers would be that much higher.

I saw dude school both Sampson and Akeem (before the H) in the finals. SCHOOL them!

Karl was not as good as McHale. I dont give a fukk if Karl scored more.
If Lurch was that great he'd have been the best player on a champion...

Philosophically I can see we approach this differently. To me, it matters that Lurch never had to bear the responsibility as THE face of a franchise like Malone. Bird got hurt early in 1988-89 season and was never the same Bird again. The year prior, in '88, Boston won 57 games and was in its 5th straight ECF...

Bird gets hurt in '89, Lurch plays 78 games and Boston drops to 42 wins with him as their best player. That was the moment. That was the moment to see if Lurch, who made two All-Star teams after '89, was truly That Guy...

Lurch's bag isn't really relevant here. We're comparing him to a guy who was the face of a franchise his entire career, was the primary defensive focus, and Lurch was none of these things. It's easy to showcase your bag when you have an All-Timer doing the heavy lifting, a consistently deep bench and strong coaching...

Dudes really overrate skill set. Vince Carter had a nice bag and is the most overrated player ever. Karl-Anthony Towns has a deep bag and what exactly has it translated to?

Lurch played in 5 Finals and was the best player in none of them. Not one. His bag wasn't nice enough, apparently...
 

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Lurch's bag isn't really relevant here. We're comparing him to a guy who was the face of a franchise his entire career, was the primary defensive focus, and Lurch was none of these things. It's easy to showcase your bag when you have an All-Timer doing the heavy lifting, a consistently deep bench and strong coaching...

Dudes really overrate skill set. Vince Carter had a nice bag and is the most overrated player ever. Karl-Anthony Towns has a deep bag and what exactly has it translated to?

Lurch played in 5 Finals and was the best player in none of them. Not one. His bag wasn't nice enough, apparently...
McHale should have won MVP of the 86 Finals.

Did you watch all the games?

And yes…the bag is relevant here because Malone lack of a go to hurt him in the playoffs.

When was McHale ever benched for having a broken shot in the playoffs?

Karl Malone without Stockton didn’t materialize . Im certain the failures of the Jazz minus Stockton would have been much more stark than the so called failures McHale experienced minus Bird.
 
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murksiderock

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McHale should have won MVP of the 86 Finals.

Did you watch all the games?

And yes…the bag is relevant here because Malone lack of a go to hurt him in the playoffs.

When was McHale ever benched for having a broken shot in the playoffs?

Karl Malone without Stockton didn’t materialize . Im certain the failures of the Jazz minus Stockton would have been much more stark than the so called failures McHale experienced minus Bird.
Fair enough, I wasn't alive in '86. This is definitely the very first times, in 24 years of actively watching ball, that I've heard someone day Lurch was the best player in a Finals. But I'll defer to you as I wasn't alive...

My central point remains though; Lurch never had to get benched for a broken shot because he never had to carry as a team's primary scorer besides the year Bird was hurt and he led them to 42 wins and a Rd1 exit. Philosophically I'm not comparing a career #2 on the level of a guy who was a career #1. They didn't have the same role or burden if responsibility on their teams so the results both got from their respective "bag", or lack therof, aren't going to be apples-to-apples objective...
 

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Malone is ass for a star. He might be the worst star in NBA history. The game is so much better today and Malone is a NBA terrorist. Old Sabo is a NBA terrorist too but every verison of Malone is a terrorist. Stockton is legit. I'll always give John is props. Malone and JC. Two players I just don't like.
nikka no.
 

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nikka no.
When you really study Malone, what was he special at? Most of what he was special at, John Collins is special at and in the modern NBA, his peak was 20ppg.

Transition offense for bigs aren't even a thing anymore. He used to kill off that shyt.

Elite screen setter. While that has playmaking value, it's not that impactful anymore with the drop defense and switching.

He like JC has no post bag. They just do the jump hook and the short spin at high percentages. JC even more efficient at it than Karl but that's due to spamming more than anything JC does.

He didn't have a jumper for the first four seasons.

His elbow PnR with Stockton died in value as soon as the zone was implemented.

Honestly bro, what was special about him? Look at this game where he dropped 61. This shyt looks fukking awful

 

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Wow

Be the 4th all time leading scorer and be compared to John Collins brehs
This is the problem with you old school nikkas. It's all about stats to you.

I just posted video of his 61 point game. The shyt was horrendous. Tell me this looks amazing. This looks like anything that would translate in today's NBA.

I am showing you live action. All your dumbass wants to talk about is stats. That's why I hate nikkas like you. You are too stupid.

What's more impressive?



Or

When Karl finally got a jumper in 91



Watch the tape, what's more impressive?
 

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When you really study Malone, what was he special at? Most of what he was special at, John Collins is special at and in the modern NBA, his peak was 20ppg.

Transition offense for bigs aren't even a thing anymore. He used to kill off that shyt.

Elite screen setter. While that has playmaking value, it's not that impactful anymore with the drop defense and switching.

He like JC has no post bag. They just do the jump hook and the short spin at high percentages. JC even more efficient at it than Karl but that's due to spamming more than anything JC does.

He didn't have a jumper for the first four seasons.

His elbow PnR with Stockton died in value as soon as the zone was implemented.

Honestly bro, what was special about him? Look at this game where he dropped 61. This shyt looks fukking awful

l

He had no real post moves. Everything was picking pop or in transition. There’s a reason why he struggled in playoff series.
 

Jplaya2023

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This is the problem with you old school nikkas. It's all about stats to you.

I just posted video of his 61 point game. The shyt was horrendous. Tell me this looks amazing. This looks like anything that would translate in today's NBA.

I am showing you live action. All your dumbass wants to talk about is stats. That's why I hate nikkas like you. You are too stupid.
Scoring the basketball at a high level is what's amazing.

Are you serious with this shyt?

You posted a 61 point game to complain about how the shyt looked to you?

Dont do this on the lords day
 

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Scoring the basketball at a high level is what's amazing.

Are you serious with this shyt?

You posted a 61 point game to complain about how the shyt looked to you?

Dont do this on the lords day
The reason why he struggled in the playoffs is because transition play came down to a halt. He had no real post up moves.

What was his go to shot besides pick & pop/roll?
 

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Scoring the basketball at a high level is what's amazing.

Are you serious with this shyt?

You posted a 61 point game to complain about how the shyt looked to you?

Dont do this on the lords day
He's spamming bullshyt. That's not impressive dude! This ain't skill or anything nasty. This is just spamming and taking advantage of PFs before the position evolved in the 2000s. shyt, in the RS, they had Karl playing a majority of his minutes at the 3 with Keefe and Ostertag at the 4 and 5 in 97-98. This shyt is garbage.
 

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Think in the modern NBA that you have Malone at the 3, Keefe at the 4 and Ostertag at the 5 and thinking you won't get beat by 90 points a game

The problem with nikkas who's old school and mentally wired from the 90s is they don't have any Basketball IQ at all. They just hold on to fantasy. Their dumbass will be trying to convince you why the Discman with 40 sec skip protection and a strange shaped headphone is better than using Apple music or Spotify on your cell using wireless Bose HD headphones. Their dumbasses will tell you why Goldeneye is still the best shooter when that shyt is ass if you play it right now.

nikkas like @Jplaya2023 dont understand basketball at all. Them nikkas brain just stopped developing when MTV raps ended.
 
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