Stockton/Malone played 18 seasons together and were eliminated in the 1st round 9 times

[NYC Rebel]

I don’t get people here knocking the 97 and 98 jazz teams. Actually, I do know the real reason behind it but it’s foolish. 97 squad knocked out hakeem, who had a great series. Took Shaq out also, twice.

Gave the bulls a real test in 98. If jordan doesn’t have an all time, last minute of a finals game performance, it’s going 7 games. You can look at both years, jordan had a bunch of great clutch closing performances that cost utah titles. I think it was the first time there was a repeat title matchup where loser of first series didn’t win rematch. Was about 5-0 before for loser.

People are knocking their overall history and rightfully so.

 

[Reign X]

People are knocking their overall history and rightfully so.

I got no issue with the start of thread. They had a brutal start together.

Just some comments after about later jazz teams. If they weren’t meeting up with jordan in finals, they could get one title. Would be a dirk situation a bit, of getting over early struggles. Jordan just didn’t have a bron 2011 series either time.

 

[NYC Rebel]

I got no issue with the start of thread. They had a brutal start together.

Just some comments after about later jazz teams. If they weren’t meeting up with jordan in finals, they could get one title. Would be a dirk situation a bit, of getting over early struggles. Jordan just didn’t have a bron 2011 series either time.

Where are folks tearing down the 97 and 98 Jazz?

 

[murksiderock]

SMH I should’ve known this wasn’t gonna be a serious discussion when you put Kevin Mchale as being arguable. And there’s a difference between being MVP level for a short time and as long as Malone was. The only ones who could match up to that are Duncan, Kg, and Petit.

Not counting Duncan, KG, and Dirk because I have them above Malone. Petit is the only one with an argument. Malone not being top 5 is crazy talk.

Karl Malone and John Stockton deserve the criticism for shrinking in the playoffs too many times. But what loses me is when guys puff their chests out about cats like Barkley or Garnett, I mean really. Those nikkas weren't some bastions of consistent postseason greatness, so throwing them over Malone is based on......what?

For the record, to your point, Malone was a 9x Top 5 MVP finalist. Got his first Top 5 finish in 1989 (3rd place), got his last Top 5 finish in 2000 (4th place). 9x in a 12-year stretch he was Top 5 and won two of them. So we could make a legitimate argument that Karl Malone was an MVP-level, Top 5-ish player for a dozen years, 1988 (1988-89 season), to 2000...

Kevin McHale was only a Top 5 finish in one year, 1987. This guy is a career #2, there is no comparison between he and Malone...

Dirk was a Top 5 MVP guy for 3 consecutive years only (05/06/07). Garnett was a 5x Top 5 guy in a 9-year stretch 1999-2008. Giannis to this point is at 5 consecutive years, 2018-present. Chuck was only a 4x Top 5 guy from 1987-93, this nikka is really beginning to be overrated on here.

Pettit made it 8x in a 9-year stretch 1955-64, winning 2x. So he's comparable to Mailman. Duncan finished Top 5 9x in a 10-year stretch, 1997-2007, winning 2x...

Honestly the only guys I'd even ponder over Karl are Duncan (definitively if you call him a 4 but I agree he was really a 5), and Pettit, and let's see how the rest of Giannis' career plays out but as of yet he's not over Malone...

There is zero chance I'm putting Barkley over Malone, they played at the same time in the same eras and Malone was better. Even in Barkley's 88-93 peak they both made 1st Team All-NBA same amount if times, difference is after '93 that was it for Barkley while Malone kept dominating...

I'm a Dirk guy but I'm not putting him over Malone, its not like he has this stellar postseason resume. No way I'm putting Garnett over Malone, does Kevin Garnett have a better postseason resume. We're not having a conversation about Lurch McHale...

At worst Karl Malone is still a Top 3 ppwer forward ever and i could easily say he's still the GOAT 4 if I put Duncan with centers and its really a toss up with Pettit...

 

[Reign X]

Where are folks tearing down the 97 and 98 Jazz?

Below is one

The big context I don't think anyone has mentioned so far is that the Expansion Era changed everything. NBA added two teams for the 88/89 season, two teams for the 89/90 season, and two teams for the 95/96 season. Six new squads in just 7 years so talent gets diluted, three different expansion drafts and your own picks being knocked down by 6 spots. Because of that it took less to succeed in 1996 than it had in 1988.

Add in the end of the Lakers dynasty, the end of the Celtics dynasty, the end of the Pistons "dynasty", Duncan not getting drafted until the '98 season and Phil Jackson not joining the Lakers until the '00 season, and there was a real void. The old Jazz were one of the teams that filled that void. They were top-heavy so the expansion didn't impact them as much, they retained their main talent past when all the other squads did, and so they were able to slip to the top.

But no one gonna convince me that a team whose #2/#3 options were a 35yo Hornacek and 36yo Stockton averaging just 11ppg each was some great squad. Their #4 option was Bryon Russell, their #5 option was Shandon Anderson, their #6 option was Howard Eisley. Greg Foster started 16 playoff games and Adam Keefe started 10 playoff games even though both were complete non-factors on offense and not particularly good at defense either. Greg Ostertag's 17 mpg were #7 on the team yet he only averaged 3ppg and 4rpg.

This is a Jazz squad that got ROLLED 4-1 in 1999 by a Blazers' team whose top two scorers were Isaiah Rider and Brian Grant (Duncan's Spurs swept those Blazers in the next round with Portland only averaging 76ppg). They weren't that good. They were just lucky to catch a void.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Below is one

And what did you write to refute those FACTS besides bring up Jordan and Lebron?

Thats a you issue.

 

[010101]

stockton would have been better off with some premier perimeter running mates*

 

[Street Knowledge]

There’s no era where Stockton/Malone win rings

 

[Reign X]

And what did you write to refute those FACTS besides bring up Jordan and Lebron?

Thats a you issue.

Wtf are you on? You asked for an example of people tearing down 97-98 jazz, I showed one.

But alright, if you wanna be combative. They had rasheed and sabonis too. Pretty good frontcourt, just a really well balanced team. We can talk about the short schedule due to strike. You think b2b playoff games is easy for an old team like utah? With b2b final trips. They lost 4-2, not 4-1, but FACTS.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Karl Malone and John Stockton deserve the criticism for shrinking in the playoffs too many times. But what loses me is when guys puff their chests out about cats like Barkley or Garnett, I mean really. Those nikkas weren't some bastions of consistent postseason greatness, so throwing them over Malone is based on......what?

For the record, to your point, Malone was a 9x Top 5 MVP finalist. Got his first Top 5 finish in 1989 (3rd place), got his last Top 5 finish in 2000 (4th place). 9x in a 12-year stretch he was Top 5 and won two of them. So we could make a legitimate argument that Karl Malone was an MVP-level, Top 5-ish player for a dozen years, 1988 (1988-89 season), to 2000...

Kevin McHale was only a Top 5 finish in one year, 1987. This guy is a career #2, there is no comparison between he and Malone...

Dirk was a Top 5 MVP guy for 3 consecutive years only (05/06/07). Garnett was a 5x Top 5 guy in a 9-year stretch 1999-2008. Giannis to this point is at 5 consecutive years, 2018-present. Chuck was only a 4x Top 5 guy from 1987-93, this nikka is really beginning to be overrated on here.

Pettit made it 8x in a 9-year stretch 1955-64, winning 2x. So he's comparable to Mailman. Duncan finished Top 5 9x in a 10-year stretch, 1997-2007, winning 2x...

Honestly the only guys I'd even ponder over Karl are Duncan (definitively if you call him a 4 but I agree he was really a 5), and Pettit, and let's see how the rest of Giannis' career plays out but as of yet he's not over Malone...

There is zero chance I'm putting Barkley over Malone, they played at the same time in the same eras and Malone was better. Even in Barkley's 88-93 peak they both made 1st Team All-NBA same amount if times, difference is after '93 that was it for Barkley while Malone kept dominating...

I'm a Dirk guy but I'm not putting him over Malone, its not like he has this stellar postseason resume. No way I'm putting Garnett over Malone, does Kevin Garnett have a better postseason resume. We're not having a conversation about Lurch McHale...

At worst Karl Malone is still a Top 3 ppwer forward ever and i could easily say he's still the GOAT 4 if I put Duncan with centers and its really a toss up with Pettit...

McHale being punished for the players he had around him and their team’s success is what you are doing.

In the past 40 years, Shaq and McHale are the only players to average over 25 ppg and shoot over 60% in the post.

If McHale had his own squad, his numbers would be that much higher.

I saw dude school both Sampson and Akeem (before the H) in the finals. SCHOOL them!

Karl was not as good as McHale. I dont give a fukk if Karl scored more.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Wtf are you on? You asked for an example of people tearing down 97-98 jazz, I showed one.

But alright, if you wanna be combative. They had rasheed and sabonis too. Pretty good frontcourt, just a really well balanced team. We can talk about the short schedule due to strike. You think b2b playoff games is easy for an old team like utah? With b2b final trips. They lost 4-2, not 4-1, but FACTS.

And that doesnt change anything.

Exactly what did you tear down regarding the 97 and 98 Jazz?

Who tore down those teams?

 

[#1 pick]

Kevin McHale’s bag shytS over Malone’s.

If I needed a bucket, I’d take McHale over Malone in a heartbeat

I can't believe someone even brought up one of the most bagful bigs to one of the least

 

[#1 pick]

McHale being punished for the players he had around him and their team’s success is what you are doing.

In the past 40 years, Shaq and McHale are the only players to average over 25 ppg and shoot over 60% in the post.

If McHale had his own squad, his numbers would be that much higher.

I saw dude school both Sampson and Akeem (before the H) in the finals. SCHOOL them!

Karl was not as good as McHale. I dont give a fukk if Karl scored more.

I hate stats. Because people really don't understand them or how to use them.

If you come to me with stats from Steph or Duncan, there is real impact there. No empty calories. If you don't understand the game, you just talking about media awarded accomplishments that don't mean shyt

 

[#1 pick]

Duncan is better than Malone but he's a center.

KG is better. Dirk is arguable. Barkley has an argument but I don't think he wins it. Giannis is more accomplished but I need some more longevity.

AD and McHale are not.

There is a lot of PFs better than Malone. The most overrated "star" in NBA history.

The way ya'll talk about old Sabo is really who Malone is. Spamming tendencies and not even being good. At least prime was insanely good.

 

[Shadow King]

There is a lot of PFs better than Malone. The most overrated "star" in NBA history.

The way ya'll talk about old Sabo is really who Malone is. Spamming tendencies and not even being good. At least prime was insanely good.

No. And at using as a juxtaposition